Was the colour of the bedroom curtains as seen by Matt a clue?

[Alice Purjorick]

The second link confirms what I was saying.
..... the wind blows into the apartment if there was somewhere for it to go. .... Note:  "in and out of the building" not just in one direction

There is always somewhere for it to go.

[Robittybob1]

There is always somewhere for it to go.

There will be a big increase in the airflow through a building if there is somewhere for it to go.  To get the curtains to flap upward like Kate described I'd imagine there needed to be two windows open or a window and an external door open.  But It is hard to tell now, but in Kate's words she checked the sliding door and that was shut.  But she didn't check to see if the window in the main bedroom was also open.

[Alice Purjorick]

There will be a big increase in the airflow through a building if there is somewhere for it to go.  To get the curtains to flap upward like Kate described I'd imagine there needed to be two windows open or a window and an external door open.  But It is hard to tell now, but in Kate's words she checked the sliding door and that was shut.  But she didn't check to see if the window in the main bedroom was also open.

It goes in one side and out the other all the time quite naturally because buildings are not airtight. What is the cause of the increase in flowrate to which you refer? Temperature differential? pressure differential? artificial means?.

Just start with a few basic premises:
1. Air moves from high pressure areas to low pressure areas.
2. No building is air tight so there will always be infiltration/ exfiltration through natural leakage paths.
3. The curtains moved in a specific direction so you can reasonably define where HP and LP were at the time the curtains moved.
Work from that and try to think in a larger domain size than a single room or apartment.
I doubt any conclusive answer will be reached though. Is it important in the long run? it has no bearing on what colour curtains Matt saw and is that relevant to anything?

[Robittybob1]

It goes in one side and out the other all the time quite naturally because buildings are not airtight. What is the cause of the increase in flowrate to which you refer? Temperature differential? pressure differential? artificial means?.

Just start with a few basic premises:
1. Air moves from high pressure areas to low pressure areas.
2. No building is air tight so there will always be infiltration/ exfiltration through natural leakage paths.
3. The curtains moved in a specific direction so you can reasonably define where HP and LP were at the time the curtains moved.
Work from that and try to think in a larger domain size than a single room or apartment.
I doubt any conclusive answer will be reached though. Is it important in the long run? it has no bearing on what colour curtains Matt saw and is that relevant to anything?

It is very important whether there were two windows opened or just the one.  If there is no way to reconstruct the flapping of the curtains with just the one window open, we have to assume Matt was right and someone had altered the main bedroom windows and slates as well.  Then you would have to ask why this was never found after the alert.    The length of the curtains will come into the equation.  Maybe not their colour.

[Alice Purjorick]

It is very important whether there were two windows opened or just the one. If there is no way to reconstruct the flapping of the curtains with just the one window open, we have to assume Matt was right and someone had altered the main bedroom windows and slates as well.  Then you would have to ask why this was never found after the alert.    The length of the curtains will come into the equation.  Maybe not their colour.

Why?

[Robittybob1]

Would a burglar either open an unlocked sliding door and walk in and out or open the slats and hold then up somehow and then open the window and then climb over the sill, all the time the heavy slats could come crashing back down?
Both of these entrances were on the same side of the building.   When Matt and Kate came up to the patio door neither of them noted the slats of the main bedroom open.   It would have been possible to notice this I presume as one climbed the stairs.  Still it is not essential to have noticed this.  Yet the light coming through the open shutters would have a bearing on the colour of the curtains as seen from the inside.

[Robittybob1]

Why?

Why?
Why were there were two windows opened and not just the one?  Its an important question in my book.  Would a child kidnapper open two windows?
If the sliding door is unlocked why go out through a different window?  In  fact once inside even the front door becomes a possible exit point.  It seems silly to open two windows when none would be required.

[Robittybob1]

I presume Kate would have turned on the light in their room when has did the initial search of the room, so the colour of the curtains would just be normal under that light, and not affected by light being transferred through the fabric.  I have just remembered when she checked the main bedroom the kid's door was closed (it had previously had slammed shut), the patio door was closed (she had checked that).
Whether she left the kid's door open or closed when she checked the main bedroom, it is a little uncertain.  If the door to the kid's bedroom was left closed there would be no through draught to make  the curtains flap when she was in the main bedroom. Then she goes and reopens the kid's bedroom and that is when she notices the curtains whooshing. So logically and physically she has described a very plausible scenario.
So if the whole physics of the situation requires an additional open window how come no one reported this?
Described in pages 93 - 95 of Madeleine.

(Yet Matt refers to it in his statement, describing what he recollects during his check, and he says he didn't go into the apartment after the alert.)
Personally I think we are onto a major finding here!

[sadie]

Why?
Why were there were two windows opened and not just the one?  Its an important question in my book.  Would a child kidnapper open two windows?
If the sliding door is unlocked why go out through a different window?  In  fact once inside even the front door becomes a possible exit point.  It seems silly to open two windows when none would be required.

My thoughts are that The Mccanns possibly left open the two side windows in the sitting room when they went out> the day had been quite warm and the flat may well have been quite hot.  The side windows were not any security risk as they were so higgh above the pavement tht they were like upstairs windows.

It is quite possible that they also left the patio doors to their room open, behind lowered shutters.

Either of these windows / doors could have contributed to the slamming of the bedroom door when it seems a sudden gust happened.

Alternatively, it is not impossible that someone let themselves out, via the bedroom patio doors, as Kate opened /closed Madeleines bedroom door, which it seems coincided with a sudden gust..


A thru draft.

[Robittybob1]

My thoughts are that The Mccanns possibly left open the two side windows in the sitting room when they went out> the day had been quite warm and the flat may well have been quite hot.  The side windows were not any security risk as they were so higgh above the pavement tht they were like upstairs windows.

It is quite possible that they also left the patio doors to their room open, behind lowered shutters.

Either of these windows / doors could have contributed to the slamming of the bedroom door when it seems a sudden gust happened.

Alternatively, it is not impossible that someone let themselves out, via the bedroom patio doors, as Kate opened /closed Madeleines bedroom door, which it seems coincided with a sudden gust..


A thru draft.

Well it is possible but if we are to go off photos were there any photos showing these open?
I don't know what patio doors you are talking about . 
In the plan there are just 4 major openings to the apartment.  2 windows and two doors.

[Alice Purjorick]

Why?
Why were there were two windows opened and not just the one? Its an important question in my book.  Would a child kidnapper open two windows?
If the sliding door is unlocked why go out through a different window?  In  fact once inside even the front door becomes a possible exit point.  It seems silly to open two windows when none would be required.

Who said two windows were open?

[sadie]

Well it is possible but if we are to go off photos were there any photos showing these open?
I don't know what patio doors you are talking about . 
In the plan there are just 4 major openings to the apartment.  2 windows and two doors.

http://gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/press/18-Aug8/SUN-05-08-08-6of7_small.JPG



I have enlarged this image of Kate and Gerrys bedroom x 500 to have a good look at it....

I am struggling to see it clearly, but there appears to be an old fashioned handle half way up the patio door / window, with a key hole beneath

I think it is a patio door.  There is a small balcony outside which is an extension to the main balcony.

This patio door,(or French door) if it is such, would be out of the glow from the street light bathing the main patio and patio windows.   Furthermore it is partially behind a big bush IIRC

Please feel free to check me, cos my eyesight is not so good these days

[pathfinder73]

That is the third door nobody talks about and leads to the area Eddie was interested in. See my theory for more details. One inadequate print was found.

Outside of [the other] patio door: One inadequate print was recovered.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FINGERPRINTS.htm

[Robittybob1]

Yes they seem to be the bifold type of window,  right down to the floor.  It seems as you approach the patio you go past these windows, the shutters could be down or up.  If they were folding internally they could be open but then they would show through the curtains.  They could be closed but the shutters up, but how come no one notices this?

In the crime scene photo the curtains aren't closed so someone has been behind the curtain by that stage.

[Robittybob1]

Who said two windows were open?

The physics might show there had to be two windows open to get the through draught seen on the day.
We need to a reconstruction at the apartment to see how many windows need to be open to get the curtains to whoosh.