ShiningInLuz tours hits the mainstream Press.

[Brietta]

Not necessarily Brie. There is at least one scenario which involves no other person.

I can understand where Shining is coming from and I see no harm in it.  Genuine valid questions are being asked which the MSM prefer to sweep under the carpet these days in favour of chequebook journalism and shoddy cheap skate articles. When one compares the version of the story published in Portugal to that published by MSM in London, the difference is remarkable.

Probably because we have libel laws which are relatively easy to understand.  I think we can learn nothing from Portugal when it comes disregard for decency in cases involving a missing child.

For me the situation in Portugal is well summed up by the following still from a television programme which the transcript makes clear is discussing the disposal of Madeleine McCann's body concealed in a bag.

Of what relevance is a photograph of Madeleine's father taken on a previous golfing trip to that discussion? ... reading the programme transcript makes that clear.

I suggest that there are few countries in the world where the media would be allowed to get away with that.

[ferryman]

The initial PJ investigation definitely didn't conduct an exhaustive investigation of the McCanns and their friends. If such an investigation has taken place since then we have not been told about it.

It certainly did.

And found that they have no case to answer.

Had (at least the Portuguese side of the enquiry) appreciated how incompetently the dogs had been deployed the McCanns would (almost) certainly never have been declared arguidos.

[John]

It certainly did.

And found that they have no case to answer.

Had (at least the Portuguese side of the enquiry) appreciated how incompetently the dogs had been deployed the McCanns would (almost) certainly never have been declared arguidos.

I believe the Archive Report states in conclusion that the arguidos (McCanns) lost the opportunity to establish [confirmar] their innocence by the refusal of the tapas group to partake in a reconstitution of events.

[Alice Purjorick]

Probably because we have libel laws which are relatively easy to understand.  I think we can learn nothing from Portugal when it comes disregard for decency in cases involving a missing child.

For me the situation in Portugal is well summed up by the following still from a television programme which the transcript makes clear is discussing the disposal of Madeleine McCann's body concealed in a bag.

Of what relevance is a photograph of Madeleine's father taken on a previous golfing trip to that discussion? ... reading the programme transcript makes that clear.

I suggest that there are few countries in the world where the media would be allowed to get away with that.

Perhaps you will be so kind as to name a few of those countries where in your opinion it would not be allowed ? If we restrict the total sample to the 118 countries that are members of the International Golf Federation that should make it easier.

It could of course be one of those placement thingies by Calloway or Ping ot Titleist or who ever.

[ferryman]

Perhaps you will be so kind as to name a few of those countries where in your opinion it would not be allowed ? If we restrict the total sample to the 118 countries that are members of the International Golf Federation that should make it easier.

It could of course be one of those placement thingies by Calloway or Ping ot Titleist or who ever.

In any country, where it possible to establish that demonstrably proven untruths that lower reputation have been told, that ought to be enough.

Yet Portugal seems set to allow Amaral to carry on peddling lies.

[Alice Purjorick]

In any country, where it possible to establish that demonstrably proven untruths that lower reputation have been told, that ought to be enough.

Yet Portugal seems set to allow Amaral to carry on peddling lies.

Nice body swerve Charon.
But if neither you nor Brietta can name a  "few countries"  where the "fairway backdrop" would not be allowed, with cites as appropriate then forgive me for thinking you are making erronoeus statements.

To make it easy for you here's a link to countries in the IGF so a few from there will do.

https://www.igfgolf.org/about-igf/nationalmembers/

[ferryman]

The Portuguese Police cannot be blamed.

Have you forgotten they attempted to thoroughly investigate all the arguidos but were thwarted at every turn. The English police either refused or delayed in providing McCann related documents and records requested by the PJ in Portugal. Statements like the Gaspars were withheld as far back as even Amaral's involvement. The tapas group and others refused to cooperate with the PJ in the planned reconstruction.  Have I missed anything?

It defies description that after the way the Portuguese hierarchy mangled and misrepresented the forensic results and after the copious leaking in contravention of Portuguese judicial secrecy, surely the clearest evidence of bad faith on the  Portuguese side, people should have expected the McCanns to trust that this so-called 'reconstruction' had other than questionable motive.

[ferryman]

Nice body swerve Charon.
But if neither you nor Brietta can name a  "few countries"  where the "fairway backdrop" would not be allowed, with cites as appropriate then forgive me for thinking you are making erronoeus statements.

To make it easy for you here's a link to countries in the IGF so a few from there will do.

https://www.igfgolf.org/about-igf/nationalmembers/

Personally, I know enough about English libel libel-law to be certain that the book will never see sale in reputable bookshops in England.

Portuguese libel law baffles me completely.

Don't know the first thing about libel-law anywhere else in the world (can't comment on that).

[John]

It defies description that after the way the Portuguese hierarchy mangled and misrepresented the forensic results and after the copious leaking in contravention of Portuguese judicial secrecy, surely the clearest evidence of bad faith on the  Portuguese side, people should have expected the McCanns to trust that this so-called 'reconstruction' had other than questionable motive.

I think if it was my child which had disappeared and I were demonstratably innocent, I would be knocking on their (PJ's) door every single day without exception looking for updates.  Regardless of the PJ's theories the fullest cooperation should have been given to them without question. 

Once you start treating the police investigators as the enemy I fear any investigation will sour.

And just for the record the AG in his Archive Report stated that there was no evidence capable of bringing any prosecution against the three arguidos.  He did not state they were innocent.  He also stated the McCanns had lost the opportunity to establish their innocence due to the refusal of their friends to partake in the reconstitution.  Can the PJ be blamed for that?

[Alfie]

I think if it was my child which had disappeared and I were demonstratably innocent, I would be knocking on their (PJ's) door every single day without exception looking for updates.  Regardless of the PJ's theories the fullest cooperation should have been given to them without question. 

Once you start treating the police investigators as the enemy I fear any investigation will sour.

And just for the record the AG in his Archive Report stated that there was no evidence capable of bringing any prosecution against the three arguidos.  He did not state they were innocent.  He also stated the McCanns had lost the opportunity to establish their innocence due to the refusal of their friends to partake in the reconstitution.  Can the PJ be blamed for that?

Didn't Kate McCann write a letter to Rebelo begging for an update to which she received no reply?  Nice way to treat the parents of a missing child whose disappearance you are supposed to be investigating I'm sure.

[Benice]

I think if it was my child which had disappeared and I were demonstratably innocent, I would be knocking on their (PJ's) door every single day without exception looking for updates.  Regardless of the PJ's theories the fullest cooperation should have been given to them without question. 

Once you start treating the police investigators as the enemy I fear any investigation will sour.

And just for the record the AG in his Archive Report stated that there was no evidence capable of bringing any prosecution against the three arguidos.  He did not state they were innocent.  He also stated the McCanns had lost the opportunity to establish their innocence due to the refusal of their friends to partake in the reconstitution.  Can the PJ be blamed for that?

Once you realise the police investigators are trying to pin the crime on yourselves, and you know you are innocent - how would you regard them then - if not 'the enemy'?

It's a pity the AG does not explain how a recon would in any way have enabled the McCanns to establish/demonstrate their innocence.     Can anyone explain how the McCanns repeating their movements of 12 months prior would make any difference to anything?   It's a mystery to me.

All an attempted recon would prove is that it is not humanly possible for 10 people ( who only remember approximate times of their movements of 12 months prior) -  to recreate those movements with the amount of accuracy that would be vital for the exercise to prove anything whatsoever.


For example (remembering that the were all only going to get one  'go' at it)

PJ to Jez:  We want you to set out at the same time you did on the night of the 3rd when you met Gerry.

Jez to PJ:  But I don't know what time it was - I can have a guess at it - but what if I 'm wrong and Gerry is just going into 5a when I turn into the street?   What do I do then?

PJ to Jez..........................................erm.

AIMHO

[Brietta]

Didn't Kate McCann write a letter to Rebelo begging for an update to which she received no reply?  Nice way to treat the parents of a missing child whose disappearance you are supposed to be investigating I'm sure.

The role of press coverage and the nature of it in Madeleine's case has been extraordinary and something which has long been of interest.  It has been fascinating to follow exactly the manner in which Shining inadvertently became part of that litany.   

[Angelo222]

Didn't Kate McCann write a letter to Rebelo begging for an update to which she received no reply?  Nice way to treat the parents of a missing child whose disappearance you are supposed to be investigating I'm sure.

Probably went the same way as SiL's request to SY.

[Alfie]

The role of press coverage and the nature of it in Madeleine's case has been extraordinary and something which has long been of interest.  It has been fascinating to follow exactly the manner in which Shining inadvertently became part of that litany.

Hmm.  Well I'm not allowed to speak freely on this subject anymore, so best I not say what I think about that.

[Alice Purjorick]

Personally, I know enough about English libel libel-law to be certain that the book will never see sale in reputable bookshops in England.

Portuguese libel law baffles me completely.

Don't know the first thing about libel-law anywhere else in the world (can't comment on that).

'ow eez it you Eeengleesh say? Self praise is no praise at all?

I wasn't asking you to comment on libel law anywhere.
I know I shouldn't encourage you but would you like to have another crack at addressing the issue that Brietta raised, you having responded to my reply to her.


http://www.apastyle.org/learn/faqs/use-parentheses.aspx