Can we take the file records at face value?

[sadie]

Then kindly post this early correct translation by Ines and we're done.  Somebody is fiddling with the records.

Or don't post this early translation by Ines and we are done.  Nobody is fiddling with the records.

Over to you.

I am unable to do that because I dont have the technical ability, but if you are willing to privately give me your address, I will post photocopies to you.  I promise that I will not reveal your address to anyone.

[sadie]

The line of the Portimão report immediately under the chunk you posted is "The trip he made was approximately 1.5 km and would have taken about 5 minutes."

That is a description of the journey. It is not describing anything other than the journey.  It is simple.  It is clear.

It is consistent with VNdG.  It is not consistent with Campanhã, which would involve a longer distance and a longer journey time.

And I did not mean the taxi driver gave a description of the station.  I meant the taxi driver gave a description of the journey, a description that fits VNdG but does not fit Campanhã.

What I am not getting is why you are insisting on ruling out VNdG in favour of Campañhã?  You appear to be alleging that a Portimão PJ Inspector wilfully manipulated the taxi driver's evidence, which is a serious allegation.  You have not provided any evidence he did, nor his motivation in doing so.

And you haven't provided any reason to support why the man would stay on the train at VNdG, then continue for a further 5 minutes or so, only to need a longer and costlier taxi ride from Campanhã to Rua André de Castro.

I.  I would not describe that as a description of the journey ... just a distance and a time.   

But look at the time:

It does not say that the journey "took" about 5 minutes, it says it "would have taken" about 5 minutes.  From the way it is worded we can see that those words have not come from the taxi drivers mouth.  He would say it TOOK about 5 minutes.

So seems someone has given false info.  Maybe at the Porto end, maybe at the Portimao end.  We cant tell.


I do not believe that Madeleine went up to Porto by train ... far too public and dangerous for who ever was taking her.  I believe that she went up via a white van per the Carlos Moreira sighting

Carlos Moriera sighting 8am on the 4th May 2007
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/press/37may10/SUN_25_05_10.htm
 
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccann-portuguese-man-saw-223908
 
This was on the N10, old main route north.  We actually visited the roadside snack bar. 
As we left I took a quick snap of it, but had inadvertently left my camera on video.  I have a mini video of a very angry woman screaming at me in some language that no-one can identify.  I wonder why she wsa so enraged?
Roughly half way up to Porto from PdL. at Samora Correia (east of Lisboa.)

[mercury]

Well we can also look forward to the pj files when the sy pj investigation is closed, it will be interesting

[Angelo222]

Talking about taking files and translations at face value, I came across an interesting exclusion recently when looking at the Marcos Correia report.  For some reason his reference to Leonor allegedly falling down some stairs was left out by the translator who produced the English version for the Pamalam site.  Had I not been looking at this specific translation I would not have picked it up which raises the question as to how many other translation errors are out there?

[ferryman]

Can we take the file records at face value?

No, we can't.

I've used the example elsewhere and will repeat it here, because it is apposite to this thread:

The 'official' record (of the inspection in the gym)

1. Between 23h20 and 23h30 the two dogs were allowed to reconoitre the entire area to guarantee that there were no existing odours - and none were detected by them.

2. Between 23h30 and 23h40 items from the box labelled 'common room' were inspected by the blood dog without result.
- At 23h41 the cadaver dog began its inspection and 'marked' some clothing on the edge of the area. The inspection ended at 23h52 with the clothing having been collected for later direct examination and photographic report.

Either the 'prior' reconnoitre was carried out after the clothes were laid out, in which case the 'prior' reconnoitre was a pile of crock.

Or the record itself is a pile of crock.

[sadie]

Talking about taking files and translations at face value, I came across an interesting exclusion recently when looking at the Marcos Correia report.  For some reason his reference to Leonor allegedly falling down some stairs was left out by the translator who produced the English version for the Pamalam site.  Had I not been looking at this specific translation I would not have picked it up which raises the question as to how many other translation errors are out there?

I am so glad that your side is noticing errors too.  There were a number of errors in Processos 807-808 it appears ... all seemingly pointing the searcher away from what actually happened up in Porto and district.  Whilst this Processos was written in Portimao, did the suspect info come from someone at Porto PJ station or did Portimao  PJ station make it up ... or ...?

THese errors were not language translation errors, they gave different facts.  Why?


In the report you mention, Angelo, why did the translator (or someone) remove the part about Leonor allegedly falling down the stairs?  Any ideas ?

[ShiningInLuz]

I am so glad that your side is noticing errors too.  There were a number of errors in Processos 807-808 it appears ... all seemingly pointing the searcher away from what actually happened up in Porto and district.  Whilst this Processos was written in Portimao, did the suspect info come from someone at Porto PJ station or did Portimao  PJ station make it up ... or ...?

THese errors were not language translation errors, they gave different facts.  Why?


In the report you mention, Angelo, why did the translator (or someone) remove the part about Leonor allegedly falling down the stairs?  Any ideas ?

I thought we had done this to death.  A PJ Inspector in Porto wrote a prelim report, and passed it to Portimão PJ.  Portimão PJ did a detailed follow up and came up with somewhat different information.

If there was anything suspect in this, why stick both reports in the PJ Files?  Why not lose one, or alter one so both are consistent.

You are looking for spooks where none exists.

[slartibartfast]

Can we take the file records at face value?

No, we can't.

I've used the example elsewhere and will repeat it here, because it is apposite to this thread:

The 'official' record (of the inspection in the gym)

Either the 'prior' reconnoitre was carried out after the clothes were laid out, in which case the 'prior' reconnoitre was a pile of crock.

Or the record itself is a pile of crock.

You seem to be proving yourself wrong again?

[mercury]

Can we take the file records at face value?

No, we can't.

I've used the example elsewhere and will repeat it here, because it is apposite to this thread:

The 'official' record (of the inspection in the gym)

Either the 'prior' reconnoitre was carried out after the clothes were laid out, in which case the 'prior' reconnoitre was a pile of crock.

Or the record itself is a pile of crock.

Silly example
It doesnt take long to lay out clothes
Or very long for dogs to scan them
Minutes is all we are talking about
And you post this in a dodgy document thread?
No documents have been proven to be dodgy or altered as you and some of your cohorts continually complain and promote
Just typos or mistakes and misunderstandings
LP had enough of them themselves
It happens once in a whle in thousands of pages you know

[sadie]

My aplogies SIL   The irritating virus that sometimes hits my computer has got at your quote as well as my post . Have amended this but for some reason both my images are half missing, but I think you can get an idea of what they look like..

I thought we had done this to death.  A PJ Inspector in Porto wrote a prelim report, and passed it to Portimao PJ.  Portimao PJ did a detailed follow up and came up with somewhat different information.
 
If there was anything suspect in this, why stick both reports in the PJ Files?  Why not lose one, or alter one so both are consistent.
 
You are looking for spooks where none exists.

You think !
 
I think differently.
 
Folllowing processos 809 and 742-744, I have found at three stages proximity to three childrens homes/ creches with oddities.
 
1)  proximity to a childrens home/creche with hidden footpath from it.  This was just a hundred metres away from  the back of Campanha Railway station in Rua Pinheiro de Campanha.  From the Home to Campanha Railway Station rear taxi-stands was a deeply sunken walled pavement.  Anyone walking between these places and walking this path would have been largely hidden
The Childrens Centre is called: Centro Juvenil de Campanha - Seminario dos Meninos Desamparados ... A seminary, so also a training place for priests and a home for helpless children and a large nursery
 

Again my apologies.  Only half the Seminario shows ... dont know hiow to change that but you can see it in full if you click on the interesting blog below
 
http://www.microsofttranslator.com/bv.aspx?ref=SERP&br=ro&mkt=en-GB&dl=en&lp=PT_EN&a=http%3a%2f%2fportoarc.blogspot.com%2f2015%2f03%2fcolegios-e-recolhimentos-ix.html

 
 
 
2)  The likely drop off point from the taxi and nearest to where number 79 Rua Andres de Costa historically HAD stood, was at the end of a high walled alleyway, also part of Rua Andre de Costa.  This drop off point was at the cross road between Rua Andre de Costa and Rua Vera Crus
The alleyway was curved so the part in the middle was out of sight from EITHER end.  In the blind part the wall was down. 
Easy peasy to get over on to the large triangular plot of land that housed the building of the new RC church, a giant Creche and a RC school.
 
I am sorry but I cannot supply images of this creche, which according to G.E. street scene is no longer a creche.   It was a very fine looking large creche in 2010, now it looks down at heel and the big proud name sign has been taken down, along with the massive colourful poster advertisement for it that was painted on its end wall.  I have photos of how it and the new pristine white painted church looked then.
 
It was called "Colegio Creche Nossa Senhora de Bonanca, Centro Paroquial, Candalâ" ....  The church  was called "Igreja Paroquial do Candalâ"    Perhaps it also had the name that SIL gave it ?  Dunno
 
I cant understand how the Church and the Creche have got so terribly dirty.  The houses opposite haven't noticeably got any dirtier than in 2010.  I have photos of those too.
 
 
 
Quite a co-incidence that there were creches / schools at either end of the taxi journey.  As I said before, because of historical abuse of children by people attached to creches, churches and childrens homes as well as occasionally schools, I always look at these places closely ... and at priests
 
 
3)  Then if we look at Processos 742-744
 
Three days later, a man was watched with a little girl on the beach at Miramar VNG.  The witness was sure the girl was Madeleine.  He had been reading all about it and had seen many photos of Madeleine. 
 
This was at Miramar beach near Senhor de Pedera chapel on the beach, (photo below) again in the Vila Nova Gaia area of Porto greater district. https://www.flickr.com/photos/anselmo_sousa/6927092654/



The man and girl got into a car and drove off at 5 pm.
 
A short car ride away there is another Childrens Residential Home.  We went to have a quick look.  This was situated on the old main road North and as the new North-South autoroute has been built it has become redundant and leads nowhere much ... so once again somewhere that no-one really sees, very few pass.  The home is totally hidden, out of sight, on its other three faces.
 
This was where an aggressive, snarling, gawd-awful guard dog was trying to get at us, two old people in our seventies in the poorest hire car imaginable.   Why? 
Had there not been railings in between it would have ripped us apart.
 
What were we doing?  Sitting there for less than two minutes in a very quiet, gentle looking neighbourhood and we were at least 25 meters away, so hardly threatening.
 
 
How many childrens homes do you know that keep ferocious guard dogs ?
 
 
When we arrived, it was a lovely scene, children with balls and bikes playing.  They were called in straight away, the high steel gates slammed closed by the guards on duty and the guard dog immediately let out.  We were not welcome !
 
 
 
Following Processos 809 and Processos 742-744 we have 3 Childrens homes / creches / seminaries / churches EACH with hidden access (or almost no passing traffic).
 
Not 1, Not 2, BUT THREE CO-INCEDENCES
 
Now that is one co-incidence too many ... especially as there are other things that are notable about these places.
 
I ask myself, was there someone / people at these places, maybe part of a ring, with an unhealthy interest in young children / pre pubescent children  ?
 
 
.......................
 
Maybe at this stage, I should mention that there are two very compelling things that link my suspect with the second childrens home,
 
1) The likely drop off point in Rua Andres de Costa is just 2 miles away from the first abduction of the group of seven children abducted in PT.  His name was Jorge Sepulveda and he was abducted from Masseroles, Porto. 
2)  My man of interest spends time between the drop off point with creche etc and the first abduction point of Jorge.  They are only two miles apart.  He was so close to the creche that he could have walked to that creche or church or school and back in half an hour, or so.
SY found these things interesting and came back to me.
 
I will leave it there for the moment, but there are other things ... some I cant share.

[John]

Has this man of interest been mentioned in the Madeleine case Sadie, a recent arguido per chance?

[sadie]

Has this man of interest been mentioned in the Madeleine case Sadie, a recent arguido per chance?

No John

My man of interest is an Elite.  I believe he organised the abduction.  He didn't get involved in the nitty gritty in PdL imo.

[ShiningInLuz]

My aplogies SIL   The irritating virus that sometimes hits my computer has got at your quote as well as my post . Have amended this but for some reason both my images are half missing, but I think you can get an idea of what they look like..
 
You think !
 
I think differently.
 
Folllowing processos 809 and 742-744, I have found at three stages proximity to three childrens homes/ creches with oddities.
 
1)  proximity to a childrens home/creche with hidden footpath from it.  This was just a hundred metres away from  the back of Campanha Railway station in Rua Pinheiro de Campanha.  From the Home to Campanha Railway Station rear taxi-stands was a deeply sunken walled pavement.  Anyone walking between these places and walking this path would have been largely hidden
The Childrens Centre is called: Centro Juvenil de Campanha - Seminario dos Meninos Desamparados ... A seminary, so also a training place for priests and a home for helpless children and a large nursery
 

Again my apologies.  Only half the Seminario shows ... dont know hiow to change that but you can see it in full if you click on the interesting blog below
 
http://www.microsofttranslator.com/bv.aspx?ref=SERP&br=ro&mkt=en-GB&dl=en&lp=PT_EN&a=http%3a%2f%2fportoarc.blogspot.com%2f2015%2f03%2fcolegios-e-recolhimentos-ix.html

2)  The likely drop off point from the taxi and nearest to where number 79 Rua Andres de Costa historically HAD stood, was at the end of a high walled alleyway, also part of Rua Andre de Costa.  This drop off point was at the cross road between Rua Andre de Costa and Rua Vera Crus
The alleyway was curved so the part in the middle was out of sight from EITHER end.  In the blind part the wall was down. 
Easy peasy to get over on to the large triangular plot of land that housed the building of the new RC church, a giant Creche and a RC school.
 
I am sorry but I cannot supply images of this creche, which according to G.E. street scene is no longer a creche.   It was a very fine looking large creche in 2010, now it looks down at heel and the big proud name sign has been taken down, along with the massive colourful poster advertisement for it that was painted on its end wall.  I have photos of how it and the new pristine white painted church looked then.
 
It was called "Colegio Creche Nossa Senhora de Bonanca, Centro Paroquial, Candalâ" ....  The church  was called "Igreja Paroquial do Candalâ"    Perhaps it also had the name that SIL gave it ?  Dunno
 
I cant understand how the Church and the Creche have got so terribly dirty.  The houses opposite haven't noticeably got any dirtier than in 2010.  I have photos of those too.
 
Quite a co-incidence that there were creches / schools at either end of the taxi journey.  As I said before, because of historical abuse of children by people attached to creches, churches and childrens homes as well as occasionally schools, I always look at these places closely ... and at priests
 
3)  Then if we look at Processos 742-744
 
Three days later, a man was watched with a little girl on the beach at Miramar VNG.  The witness was sure the girl was Madeleine.  He had been reading all about it and had seen many photos of Madeleine. 
 
This was at Miramar beach near Senhor de Pedera chapel on the beach, (photo below) again in the Vila Nova Gaia area of Porto greater district. https://www.flickr.com/photos/anselmo_sousa/6927092654/



The man and girl got into a car and drove off at 5 pm.
 
A short car ride away there is another Childrens Residential Home.  We went to have a quick look.  This was situated on the old main road North and as the new North-South autoroute has been built it has become redundant and leads nowhere much ... so once again somewhere that no-one really sees, very few pass.  The home is totally hidden, out of sight, on its other three faces.
 
This was where an aggressive, snarling, gawd-awful guard dog was trying to get at us, two old people in our seventies in the poorest hire car imaginable.   Why? 
Had there not been railings in between it would have ripped us apart.
 
What were we doing?  Sitting there for less than two minutes in a very quiet, gentle looking neighbourhood and we were at least 25 meters away, so hardly threatening.
 
How many childrens homes do you know that keep ferocious guard dogs ?
 
When we arrived, it was a lovely scene, children with balls and bikes playing.  They were called in straight away, the high steel gates slammed closed by the guards on duty and the guard dog immediately let out.  We were not welcome !
 
Following Processos 809 and Processos 742-744 we have 3 Childrens homes / creches / seminaries / churches EACH with hidden access (or almost no passing traffic).
 
Not 1, Not 2, BUT THREE CO-INCEDENCES
 
Now that is one co-incidence too many ... especially as there are other things that are notable about these places.
 
I ask myself, was there someone / people at these places, maybe part of a ring, with an unhealthy interest in young children / pre pubescent children  ?
 
.......................
 
Maybe at this stage, I should mention that there are two very compelling things that link my suspect with the second childrens home,
 
1) The likely drop off point in Rua Andres de Costa is just 2 miles away from the first abduction of the group of seven children abducted in PT.  His name was Jorge Sepulveda and he was abducted from Masseroles, Porto. 
2)  My man of interest spends time between the drop off point with creche etc and the first abduction point of Jorge.  They are only two miles apart.  He was so close to the creche that he could have walked to that creche or church or school and back in half an hour, or so.
SY found these things interesting and came back to me.
 
I will leave it there for the moment, but there are other things ... some I cant share.

Let me see if I understand the beginnings of this.

The train from Faro to Campanhã is irrelevant.  What is relevant is a taxi ride from Campanhã train station to 79 Rua André da Costa, because there are religious centres at both ends.

May I ask why Seminario dos Meninos Desamparados was so bereft of cars that someone chose to walk Madeleine to Campanhã train station to get a taxi?

May I ask how you are locating 79 Rua André da Costa near the junction with Vera Cruz?

Since there was no 79 Rua André da Costa there in 2007, how did the taxi driver know where to go?

Since the church at that end had not been built in 2007, why is it significant?

If the journey was from Campanhã to 79 Rua AdC, who changed the Portimão version?  Is it now that the taxi driver is lying?  If so, why?  Or is it that Portimão PJ are involved in a conspiracy to hide the truth?  If so, why?

You have a complex conspiracy theory either way.  As opposed to a much simpler version that Portimão PJ clarified the original Porto PJ report.

[sadie]

Let me see if I understand the beginnings of this.

The train from Faro to Campanhã is irrelevant.

Yes , I believe so.  The main road, the new autoroute from the South, clover leafs off at Campanha, right by the creche and seminario.  It happens to be by the back of Campanha station. 

Carlos Moriera has stated that he saw a sleeping child in the back of a white van at a roadside snack bar, east of Lisboa.  This snack bar was on the old main road up to Porto and the north.   It now feeds into the autoroute that clover leafs off right by the creche near Campanha Railway Station rear entrance.

I believe that the little girl that Moreira sighted WAS Madeleine and that she arrived at Campanha by white van NOT by train.
 

What is relevant is a taxi ride from Campanhã train station to 79 Rua André da Costa,

Yep that and the white van which was at the snack bar at Samora Correia (near Lisboa) at 8 am and arrived at Campanha prior to the taxi ride which was at 12.40.  The 4 hours 40 mins. would give a nice steady run up on the old main road  ... or time for the driver and little girl to stop off somewhere ( The Creche / seminario at Campanha? ... or en route? ) if the autoroute was used.

because there are religious centres at both ends.

No, not becauise there are religious centres at each end, but because processos 807-808 seems to have a number of errors , which I haven't yet mentioned.  That is except for the road Rua Andre de Costa having been changed to a road name which does NOT exist.   Hmmm?

Meaning anyone searching for where the taxi driver dropped off would be totally unable to find it at all.  Also the number of the house has been altered with a question mark on some copies of Processos 807-808.  I have copies of Processos 807-808 , one with a question mark added to the 79 and one without .    Hmmm?

The fact that there are religeous centre at each end is interesting, but to me the most interesting thing is that there are creches / childrens homes at both ends.  Creches, childrens homes and boarding schools are known as places where paedos have been active historically.  Altho priests have a bad record on this score too.

I know that the vast majority of Creches, childrens homes and boarding schools do a good job ... as the majority of priests do too ... but there is no getting away from the fact that a disproportionate share of these places and people have a horrendous history of abuse and paedophilia.
Because of this history, I look at these places and sadly people more carefully

May I ask why Seminario dos Meninos Desamparados was so bereft of cars that someone chose to walk Madeleine to Campanhã train station to get a taxi?

The taxis can be parked along that street almost to the partly hidden sunken pathway and when we went there, there were very few free parking spaces, so the taxis parked where they could get in. 

It was only mid-day on the 4th May, just hours after Madeleine vanished.  Madeleine would have been of little interest to the Portuguese at that moment, because she was not native Portuguese... and the media exitement had not yet hit Portugal.

I think the man felt fairly safe carrying her, 300 miles away from where she went missing ... and it is not impossible that the member/s of ?creche staff or ?priest/s at the seminario preferred not to get physically involved. 

I dont think the man in the taxi had driven her up.  I think he collected her from the white van or more likely from an intermediatory ... but I cant know that

May I ask how you are locating 79 Rua André da Costa near the junction with Vera Cruz?

Number 79 no longer exists.  It is a low number so was at the western end of Rua Andre de Costa, which was along the 'blind' alleyway.  Rua Andre de Costa has its odd numbers on the North of the road, evens on the south side.  That placed number 79 as being along the alleyway Rua A de C and on its northern side. 

I had worked all this out from Google street scene ( a Laborious task) before I went over to PT.  My walk along the street on a blistering hot summers day, confirmed the position of number 79 as being on the large plot of land where a new RC church was being built.  Also on this triangular plot of land nearby stood an established and massive Creche and a small RC School

Since there was no 79 Rua André da Costa there in 2007, how did the taxi driver know where to go?

I wasn't there SIL but my thoughts are that the man said he wanted to go to number 79 ... and then explained that it was down this narrow alleyway ... so could he please drop him off the end of the alleyway.  It wasn't far, he would walk the rest.

The closest spot to where number 79 would have been is the junction of Rua A de C and Rua Vera Cruz

Since the church at that end had not been built in 2007, why is it significant?

It may or may not be significant, per se, but the fact of the matter appears to be that the man walked across the land where that church was being built.  Was his destinatiion the creche which now is no longer shown there on GE ?  If I am right, where was he going exactly?  Church, Creche or school?  ... or ?

Is May 4th a school holiday time SIL ?

If the journey was from Campanhã to 79 Rua AdC, who changed the Portimão version?

 

That I dont know.  Originally I thought that it was at Amarals instruction but now I am veering towards someone from Porto / VNG .  Someone maybe attached to a paedo group.  Maybe not.  Dunno

Is it now that the taxi driver is lying?  If so, why?

In my opinion the taxi driver is totally honest, as it also appears is the original processos 809 written on the spot in Porto ... with full history of the officers who processed the report.

Processos 807-808 has a number of dubious "facts" which appear to have been added.  I have limited time and am very slow, but give me time,  and I will run thru them.

Would be good if some members on here found them.  How about you SIL ?  Or Robitty ?  Or Misty ?

Or is it that Portimão PJ are involved in a conspiracy to hide the truth?  If so, why?

I must admit to begin with I thought that as possible, because it seems that Amaral was set on "getting" the Mccanns and it seemed to me another "notch to his gun" ... but it is by no means certain.  I am now thinking that probably someone at Porto end passed on disinformation to Portimao PJ.  But we dont know, do we?

You have a complex conspiracy theory either way.  As opposed to a much simpler version that Portimão PJ clarified the original Porto PJ report.

Processos 807-808 is a complex report and several things are wrong with it.

Processos 809 is simple and straight forward with all officers names attributed to it named.
Nothing that I can see is incorrect.  809 even says that the taxi driver dropped the man and little girl NEAR number 79 ... and that matches my theory absolutely.


If it weren't for all the inconsistencies, some not yet discussed, I wouldn't have looked so closely at the two processos.

There are also several other reasons why this sighting is potentially exciting.

But not tonight.  Soz, I am too tired for another long typing session... and I would like to read the forum if I have the energy.



SIl, I appreciate the fact that you have looked at my extremely long post and made an attempt to analyse it  TY.

[ShiningInLuz]

Yes , I believe so.  The main road, the new autoroute from the South, clover leafs off at Campanha, right by the creche and seminario.  It happens to be by the back of Campanha station. 

Carlos Moriera has stated that he saw a sleeping child in the back of a white van at a roadside snack bar, east of Lisboa.  This snack bar was on the old main road up to Porto and the north.   It now feeds into the autoroute that clover leafs off right by the creche near Campanha Railway Station rear entrance.

I believe that the little girl that Moreira sighted WAS Madeleine and that she arrived at Campanha by white van NOT by train.
 
 
Yep that and the white van which was at the snack bar at Samora Correia (near Lisboa) at 8 am and arrived at Campanha prior to the taxi ride which was at 12.40.  The 4 hours 40 mins. would give a nice steady run up on the old main road  ... or time for the driver and little girl to stop off somewhere ( The Creche / seminario at Campanha? ... or en route? ) if the autoroute was used.
No, not becauise there are religious centres at each end, but because processos 807-808 seems to have a number of errors , which I haven't yet mentioned.  That is except for the road Rua Andre de Costa having been changed to a road name which does NOT exist.   Hmmm?

Meaning anyone searching for where the taxi driver dropped off would be totally unable to find it at all.  Also the number of the house has been altered with a question mark on some copies of Processos 807-808.  I have copies of Processos 807-808 , one with a question mark added to the 79 and one without .    Hmmm?

The fact that there are religeous centre at each end is interesting, but to me the most interesting thing is that there are creches / childrens homes at both ends.  Creches, childrens homes and boarding schools are known as places where paedos have been active historically.  Altho priests have a bad record on this score too.

I know that the vast majority of Creches, childrens homes and boarding schools do a good job ... as the majority of priests do too ... but there is no getting away from the fact that a disproportionate share of these places and people have a horrendous history of abuse and paedophilia.
Because of this history, I look at these places and sadly people more carefully

The taxis can be parked along that street almost to the partly hidden sunken pathway and when we went there, there were very few free parking spaces, so the taxis parked where they could get in. 

It was only mid-day on the 4th May, just hours after Madeleine vanished.  Madeleine would have been of little interest to the Portuguese at that moment, because she was not native Portuguese... and the media exitement had not yet hit Portugal.

I think the man felt fairly safe carrying her, 300 miles away from where she went missing ... and it is not impossible that the member/s of ?creche staff or ?priest/s at the seminario preferred not to get physically involved. 

I dont think the man in the taxi had driven her up.  I think he collected her from the white van or more likely from an intermediatory ... but I cant know that

Number 79 no longer exists.  It is a low number so was at the western end of Rua Andre de Costa, which was along the 'blind' alleyway.  Rua Andre de Costa has its odd numbers on the North of the road, evens on the south side.  That placed number 79 as being along the alleyway Rua A de C and on its northern side. 

I had worked all this out from Google street scene ( a Laborious task) before I went over to PT.  My walk along the street on a blistering hot summers day, confirmed the position of number 79 as being on the large plot of land where a new RC church was being built.  Also on this triangular plot of land nearby stood an established and massive Creche and a small RC School

I wasn't there SIL but my thoughts are that the man said he wanted to go to number 79 ... and then explained that it was down this narrow alleyway ... so could he please drop him off the end of the alleyway.  It wasn't far, he would walk the rest.

The closest spot to where number 79 would have been is the junction of Rua A de C and Rua Vera Cruz

It may or may not be significant, per se, but the fact of the matter appears to be that the man walked across the land where that church was being built.  Was his destinatiion the creche which now is no longer shown there on GE ?  If I am right, where was he going exactly?  Church, Creche or school?  ... or ?

Is May 4th a school holiday time SIL ?

 

That I dont know.  Originally I thought that it was at Amarals instruction but now I am veering towards someone from Porto / VNG .  Someone maybe attached to a paedo group.  Maybe not.  Dunno
 

In my opinion the taxi driver is totally honest, as it also appears is the original processos 809 written on the spot in Porto ... with full history of the officers who processed the report.

Processos 807-808 has a number of dubious "facts" which appear to have been added.  I have limited time and am very slow, but give me time,  and I will run thru them.

Would be good if some members on here found them.  How about you SIL ?  Or Robitty ?  Or Misty ?

I must admit to begin with I thought that as possible, because it seems that Amaral was set on "getting" the Mccanns and it seemed to me another "notch to his gun" ... but it is by no means certain.  I am now thinking that probably someone at Porto end passed on disinformation to Portimao PJ.  But we dont know, do we?

Processos 807-808 is a complex report and several things are wrong with it.

Processos 809 is simple and straight forward with all officers names attributed to it named.
Nothing that I can see is incorrect.  809 even says that the taxi driver dropped the man and little girl NEAR number 79 ... and that matches my theory absolutely.


If it weren't for all the inconsistencies, some not yet discussed, I wouldn't have looked so closely at the two processos.

There are also several other reasons why this sighting is potentially exciting.

But not tonight.  Soz, I am too tired for another long typing session... and I would like to read the forum if I have the energy.

SIl, I appreciate the fact that you have looked at my extremely long post and made an attempt to analyse it  TY.

Sadie,
I cannot say if 4 May 2007 was a school holiday or not.  It does not appear to be a bank holiday, but that tells us little to nothing.
Thank you for your most comprehensive reply.