Have the Oakley e-fits added anything to the search for Madeleine McCann?

[ShiningInLuz]

THIS IS AN OLD THREAD SO CAVEAT EMPTOR

I've posted a detailed look on my blog about the Exton e-fits and what is wrong with them.

For those who want the short version -
constructing an accurate e-fit required a LOT of skill on the part of the operator
success rates in 2007/8 were depressingly poor
the above is after a good, clean sighting which the Smiths did not get, with e-fits constructed within hours of the incident whilst the Exton e-fits were many months after the event.

83

[G-Unit]

THIS IS AN OLD THREAD SO CAVEAT EMPTOR

I've posted a detailed look on my blog about the Exton e-fits and what is wrong with them.

For those who want the short version -
constructing an accurate e-fit required a LOT of skill on the part of the operator
success rates in 2007/8 were depressingly poor
the above is after a good, clean sighting which the Smiths did not get, with e-fits constructed within hours of the incident whilst the Exton e-fits were many months after the event.

Which e-fits were constructed within hours of the incident?

[ShiningInLuz]

Which e-fits were constructed within hours of the incident?

Kindly check my blog.  The academics constructed e-fits within hours of their study 'incident', and got very poor results.  The Smith e-fits were months and months after the event.

[G-Unit]

Kindly check my blog.  The academics constructed e-fits within hours of their study 'incident', and got very poor results.  The Smith e-fits were months and months after the event.

There are no impressive e fits in this case though, are there?

[Robittybob1]

There are no impressive e fits in this case though, are there?

What about the Egg- Head?

[ShiningInLuz]

There are no impressive e fits in this case though, are there?

That's the point.  Unless a miracle has occurred, the Smithman e-fits are junk (no fault of the Smiths).

[slartibartfast]

That's the point.  Unless a miracle has occurred, the Smithman e-fits are junk (no fault of the Smiths).

One other explanation is that having ID'd Gerry, they had him mind when producing the efits.

[ShiningInLuz]

One other explanation is that having ID'd Gerry, they had him mind when producing the efits.

I've covered that off on my blog.  Even in 2007/8 the academics knew a different process was required for known faces and for unknown faces.  Whether the Henri Exton crew had this level of expertise is something I don't know.

[pathfinder73]

Newspaper apology.

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/henri-exton-6497797.html

The Oakley International report, delivered in November 2008, gave little credibility to Jane Tanner’s 9.15pm sighting and focused instead on the 10pm sighting by the Irish Smith family. The investigators recommended that their e-fit images be released without delay.
For some reason the images were not published even in Kate McCann’s 2011 book Madeleine, though it devoted a whole section to eight “key sightings” and carried e-fits on all of them except the Smiths’.
In its Insight report, the Sunday Times quoted one of the Oakley International investigators as saying: “I was absolutely stunned when I watched the programme . . . It most certainly wasn’t a new timeline and it certainly isn’t a new revelation. It is absolute nonsense to suggest either of those things . . . And those e-fits you saw on Crimewatch are ours.”

http://algarvenewswatch.blogspot.com/2013/10/more-bizarre-twists-in-mccann-saga.html

He obviously had the expertise.

A gong for the secret detective
31 December 1998
Manchester Evening News
Steve Panter


A TOP-SECRET detective who risked his life time after time in the line of duty has been honoured for his courage. The master of deep infiltration of major crime rings becomes an OBE today. Henri Exton headed Greater Manchester Police undercover unit before he retired five years ago. The former detective chief inspector has continued in his specialist field and is now with the Ministry of Defence. His work while he was in Manchester varied from penetrating notorious soccer gangs to uncovering evidence which proved a convicted killer innocent.

Mr Exton was later "loaned out" by GMP to other forces and on one such mission was held hostage by a gang he inflitrated in the south of England - but retained his cover. His early successes in Greater Manchester in the 1970s and 80s involved uncovering organised crime rings and recruiting supergrasses.

He was heavily involved in the huge armed robbery inquiry Operation Belgium, so-called because of his Belgian family background. He became a trusted "member" of notorious 1970s soccer gang the Young Guvnors who followed Manchester City and caused serious violence across the country. In fact he became a leader of the Guvnors and had to take part in some organised incidents to preserve his cover. He even had to endure a beating in a cell in Wales inflicted by police officers who were convinced he was a soccer thug.

In Italy, during the 1990 World Cup, he wore an Italian policeman's uniform then switched sides to pose as a football hooligan. One triumph was pretending to be a drugs buyer. His role was so sensitive that, when he was awarded the Queen's Police Medal for outstanding skills and bravery, it was kept secret.

Two other officers have been awarded the Queen's Police Medal for their services in Greater Manchester. Chief Supt Andrew Glaister, who retired last March after 35 years as an officer in Manchester, was head of GMP's C division. The other officer honoured today cannot be named.

http://winnowinghistory.blogspot.com/1998/12/gong-for-secret-detective.html

[Brietta]

That's the point.  Unless a miracle has occurred, the Smithman e-fits are junk (no fault of the Smiths).

The three members of the Smith family who returned to Portugal were unable to give a better description than the one recorded in the files.  Probably due to the elapsed time between sighting and interview and the fact they did not get a clear view of his face ... certainly not clear enough to be able to identify anyone from photographs (suggesting they were shown some).
The value of this sighting at the time may have been to take some of the heat off Robert Murat ... as it was stated the individual seen definitely was not him.

I certainly think the efits attributed to the Smiths raise more questions than answers.

[Brietta]

Newspaper apology.

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/henri-exton-6497797.html

The Oakley International report, delivered in November 2008, gave little credibility to Jane Tanner’s 9.15pm sighting and focused instead on the 10pm sighting by the Irish Smith family. The investigators recommended that their e-fit images be released without delay.
For some reason the images were not published even in Kate McCann’s 2011 book Madeleine, though it devoted a whole section to eight “key sightings” and carried e-fits on all of them except the Smiths’.
In its Insight report, the Sunday Times quoted one of the Oakley International investigators as saying: “I was absolutely stunned when I watched the programme . . . It most certainly wasn’t a new timeline and it certainly isn’t a new revelation. It is absolute nonsense to suggest either of those things . . . And those e-fits you saw on Crimewatch are ours.”

http://algarvenewswatch.blogspot.com/2013/10/more-bizarre-twists-in-mccann-saga.html

He obviously had the expertise.

A gong for the secret detective
31 December 1998
Manchester Evening News
Steve Panter


A TOP-SECRET detective who risked his life time after time in the line of duty has been honoured for his courage. The master of deep infiltration of major crime rings becomes an OBE today. Henri Exton headed Greater Manchester Police undercover unit before he retired five years ago. The former detective chief inspector has continued in his specialist field and is now with the Ministry of Defence. His work while he was in Manchester varied from penetrating notorious soccer gangs to uncovering evidence which proved a convicted killer innocent.

Mr Exton was later "loaned out" by GMP to other forces and on one such mission was held hostage by a gang he inflitrated in the south of England - but retained his cover. His early successes in Greater Manchester in the 1970s and 80s involved uncovering organised crime rings and recruiting supergrasses.

He was heavily involved in the huge armed robbery inquiry Operation Belgium, so-called because of his Belgian family background. He became a trusted "member" of notorious 1970s soccer gang the Young Guvnors who followed Manchester City and caused serious violence across the country. In fact he became a leader of the Guvnors and had to take part in some organised incidents to preserve his cover. He even had to endure a beating in a cell in Wales inflicted by police officers who were convinced he was a soccer thug.

In Italy, during the 1990 World Cup, he wore an Italian policeman's uniform then switched sides to pose as a football hooligan. One triumph was pretending to be a drugs buyer. His role was so sensitive that, when he was awarded the Queen's Police Medal for outstanding skills and bravery, it was kept secret.

Two other officers have been awarded the Queen's Police Medal for their services in Greater Manchester. Chief Supt Andrew Glaister, who retired last March after 35 years as an officer in Manchester, was head of GMP's C division. The other officer honoured today cannot be named.

http://winnowinghistory.blogspot.com/1998/12/gong-for-secret-detective.html

The secret detective certainly deserved his recognition if that write up is anything to go by ... just goes to show how good Halligen was at what he did if he was able to pull the wool over the eyes of someone possessing that skill set with whom he was working closely.

Exton was also a victim of Halligen's confidence tricks.

However I believe warning signals were sent when the quality of Oakley International's work, particularly in relation to their interviewing technique being scrutinised leading to the non-renewal of their contract.

I am bemused that anyone finds it extraordinary that the Fund and the McCanns might have had no confidence in anything emanating from that particular source.

There is criticism for the McCanns in their hiring of Oakley.  There is criticism for the McCanns in their firing.  There is criticism of the McCanns regarding the emails allegedly produced by a firm tainted by criminality ... and it is well worth bearing in mind that this particular story cost the Sunday Times dearly.

Sunday Times sued by McCanns over story which wrongly claimed evidence was withheld from police


 In articles dated October 27 ("Madeleine clues hidden for 5 years" and "Investigators had E-Fits five years ago", News) we referred to efits which were included in a report prepared by private investigators for the McCanns and the Fund in 2008.

We accept that the articles may have been understood to suggest that the McCanns had withheld information from the authorities.

This was not the case.

We now understand and accept that the efits had been provided to the Portuguese and Leicestershire police by October 2009.

We also understand that a copy of the final report including the efits was passed to the Metropolitan police in August 2011, shortly after it commenced its review. We apologise for the distress caused."
http://www.pressgazette.co.uk/sunday-times-sued-mccanns-over-story-which-wrongly-claimed-evidence-was-withheld-police/

[sadie]

One other explanation is that having IDed Gerry, they had him mind when producing the efits.

Did they have Cristavao in mind too ?  *&*%£

[ferryman]

The Oakley International report, delivered in November 2008, ...

Confirmation of what I've said all along.

The first investigation was shelved in August 2008.

There was no mandate to release the efits into the public domain earlier than they were.

[sadie]

The Oakley International report, delivered in November 2008, ...

Confirmation of what I've said all along.

The first investigation was shelved in August 2008.

There was no mandate to release the efits into the public domain earlier than they were.

Good thinking ferryman 

[John]

The Oakley International report, delivered in November 2008, ...

Confirmation of what I've said all along.

The first investigation was shelved in August 2008.

There was no mandate to release the efits into the public domain earlier than they were.

Why ever not?  They were produced some time early in 2008 so lots of time to publish them before the Archiving.  Oakley's Report appeared at the end of their contract while the e-fits were created at the beginning.