Did OC reception let Madeleine down?

[Robittybob1]

There is no evidence the police were called prior to 10pm.

There is. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/HELDER_LUIS.htm
 Helder states "He knows about the situation that happened at the Ocean Club concerning the disappearance of a little given that on the day in question (03/05/2007) he was on duty and was contacted by a member of staff from the Tapas Restaurant between 09.30 and 22.00 who informed him that the daughter of some guests who were dining there had disappeared.

That he immediately contacted the GNR in Lagos, shortly after this the child's father and John Hill arrived at the reception and he phoned the GNR again.

He then contacted the head of reception Vítor Santos and informed him of the situation."  In my language that is called before 10:00 PM i.e before Kate's alert.
It would be interesting to see what Vator Santos says.

[Robittybob1]

When you look at what Vitor Santos says it is also clear that Helder's phone call to him seems more as a result of Matt turning up at reception.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/VITOR-SANTOS.htm

With regard to the date of the disappearance on 3rd May 2007, he remembers that at 22.00/22.15 he received a phone call from the reception, from receptionist Helder, who told him that John Hill was extremely agitated as a child had disappeared and that the GNR had been contacted but had not arrived yet. He added (the receptionist) that he had phoned the GNR post several times and that he had been told that they would arrive when they could but that they were investigating a theft in Odiaxere. The receptionist asked the witness whether he should contact the PSP, to which the witness replied no as this area belongs to the GNR.

At that time the GNR had been contacted but had not arrived yet must logically mean that there had been sufficient time given for them to arrive.  Therefore there had been a call prior to the one requested by Matt at 10:10. and AT LEAST HALF AN HOUR PRIOR FOR THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN THEIR EXPECTED TRAVEL TIME.

[Robittybob1]

Was John Hill at the Ocean Club between 9:30 - 10:00 that evening and returning later to make the phone call insisted by Gerry McCann?
From Matt's statement we can't tell who it was that Matt spoke to.  Neither Helder or Vitor say they spoke to a friend of the father.   So we have to assume Matt spoke to someone other than these two.

[Brietta]

The difference is "removed from the scene"  has a different meaning to different people. It could mean that the scene was in a different location i.e some might think "removed from her bedroom" or as I do "removed from her hiding place in the gardens".
Most of the T9 seem to think Madeleine will be found in the garden and/or the immediate area for that is where they do their immediate searches.  If they really believed it was an abduction they would be waving down cars along the main road.

I'm speaking with the benefit of hindsight which in the immediate aftermath of the discovery of Madeleine's disappearance no-one at the scene enjoyed

They went through a process of elimination and ruled out that Madeleine wasn't on the premises or somewhere nearby.

Why would you think it would be legal or appropriate for civilians to wave down vehicles going about their lawful business?  In effect to mount road blocks.
In my opinion that is something only the police are empowered to do.

Hindsight?
If everyone around then knew what we now know ... they would probably have acted in the textbook manner we now know to be appropriate when a child is abducted.  If you think about it logically there would have been no abduction.  No-one really knew immediately what was going down from the McCann friends to the folk on Reception, all they did know was that something very serious had happened to Madeleine.

That was why everyone panicked.

[Robittybob1]

I'm speaking with the benefit of hindsight which in the immediate aftermath of the discovery of Madeleine's disappearance no-one at the scene enjoyed

They went through a process of elimination and ruled out that Madeleine wasn't on the premises or somewhere nearby.

Why would you think it would be legal or appropriate for civilians to wave down vehicles going about their lawful business?  In effect to mount road blocks.
In my opinion that is something only the police are empowered to do.

Hindsight?
If everyone around then knew what we now know ... they would probably have acted in the textbook manner we now know to be appropriate when a child is abducted.  If you think about it logically there would have been no abduction.  No-one really knew immediately what was going down from the McCann friends to the folk on Reception, all they did know was that something very serious had happened to Madeleine.

That was why everyone panicked.

I wouldn't think it would be a criminal thing to wave a car down.  OK they don't have to stop but once you have stopped the first one that would slow down the following ones and make the task easier.  Maybe that is how I would react.  Whether it was legal or not, I'd stop vehicles leaving or even those coming toward PDL to ask if there were drivers acting suspiciously.  Language would be difficult, so I would need help from someone local as well.

Thinking about it if you had trouble on the road in the country you could wave down another motorist asking for help. So it can't be illegal even in town, even though it maybe a rather unusual thing to do.

[Brietta]

I wouldn't think it would be a criminal thing to wave a car down.  OK they don't have to stop but once you have stopped the first one that would slow down the following ones and make the task easier.  Maybe that is how I would react.  Whether it was legal or not, I'd stop vehicles leaving or even those coming toward PDL to ask if there were drivers acting suspiciously.  Language would be difficult, so I would need help from someone local as well.

Thinking about it if you had trouble on the road in the country you could wave down another motorist asking for help. So it can't be illegal even in town, even though it maybe a rather unusual thing to do.

Perhaps you would stop your vehicle in the night  because some unknown person tried to flag you down for some reason unknown to you ... I would not ... I would most likely accelerate to get away from you.

The one thing I think we can dismiss without a qualm is that anyone was playing a prank.  That just did not happen.

What we should be discussing here is the role the holiday company's receptionists had in the events as they unfolded;  did they act appropriately or did they delay calling the police to Madeleine's detriment?

[Robittybob1]

Perhaps you would stop your vehicle in the night  because some unknown person tried to flag you down for some reason unknown to you ... I would not ... I would most likely accelerate to get away from you.

The one thing I think we can dismiss without a qualm is that anyone was playing a prank.  That just did not happen.

What we should be discussing here is the role the holiday company's receptionists had in the events as they unfolded;  did they act appropriately or did they delay calling the police to Madeleine's detriment?

Well I did stop and help a motorist a couple of weeks back and towed him and his friends into town.  OK it is with a little trepidation.  Would I have done the same thing at night?  Yes, that trepidation would have been worse.  I see how some would react and not do the same.k.

Maybe it is like calling the fire service in NZ  where there is a fee for businesses when they call out the fire brigade. Fire drills, false alarms and real fires all attract the same fee.  Did Ocean Club get charged every time they call out the GNR for missing children?

[sadie]

There is. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/HELDER_LUIS.htm
 Helder states "He knows about the situation that happened at the Ocean Club concerning the disappearance of a little given that on the day in question (03/05/2007) he was on duty and was contacted by a member of staff from the Tapas Restaurant between 09.30 and 22.00 who informed him that the daughter of some guests who were dining there had disappeared.

That he immediately contacted the GNR in Lagos, shortly after this the child's father and John Hill arrived at the reception and he phoned the GNR again.

He then contacted the head of reception Vítor Santos and informed him of the situation."  In my language that is called before 10:00 PM i.e before Kate's alert.
It would be interesting to see what Vator Santos says.

I think the member of staff at the tapas Restaurant was Jeronimo .... and I also think he demonstrated in his various statements that whilst he was very observant he wasn't any good with times.  Way out with times. 
Please check and correct me if I am wrong.

[Robittybob1]

I think the member of staff at the tapas Restaurant was Jeronimo .... and I also think he demonstrated in his various statements that whilst he was very observant he wasn't any good with times.  Way out with times. 
Please check and correct me if I am wrong.

I have checked both of Jeronimo's statements and it wasn't him who Matt spoke to about ringing the GNR.

[sadie]

I have checked both of Jeronimo's statements and it wasn't him who Matt spoke to about ringing the GNR.

We weren't talking about Matt speaking to Jeronimo, nor Matt speaking to any waiter.

We were talking about the statement by Helder_Luis.   He merely says that he was contacted by a member of staff from the Tapas Restaurant ...............


There is. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/HELDER_LUIS.htm
 Helder states "He knows about the situation that happened at the Ocean Club concerning the disappearance of a little given that on the day in question (03/05/2007) he was on duty and was contacted by a member of staff from the Tapas Restaurant between 09.30 and 22.00 who informed him that the daughter of some guests who were dining there had disappeared.

[Robittybob1]

We weren't talking about Matt speaking to Jeronimo, nor Matt speaking to any waiter.

We were talking about the statement by Helder_Luis.   He merely says that he was contacted by a member of staff from the Tapas Restaurant ...............


There is. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/HELDER_LUIS.htm
 Helder states "He knows about the situation that happened at the Ocean Club concerning the disappearance of a little given that on the day in question (03/05/2007) he was on duty and was contacted by a member of staff from the Tapas Restaurant between 09.30 and 22.00 who informed him that the daughter of some guests who were dining there had disappeared.

Well that could not relate to Matt talking to reception staff as he goes to the main reception at 10:10 - 10:15 in his own words.  OK someone else could make a report to the Tapas Restaurant staff and they rang Helder. But you can't tell if that is for Madeliene or not because it is before 10:00 PM.

It is possible that someone reported Madeleine missing but never told Kate or Gerry and that would be a very interesting situation.   Imagine if Matt or David reported Madeleine missing but didn't tell Gerry or Kate that.  That is also a possible solution to what we are being told, for we are simply not given enough details.  Yet it is recorded that Matt told Kate and Gerry that all is ok back at the apartment, so it seems unlikely it is him who reports the loss to Jeronimo.

[Robittybob1]

Does anyone know who Matt talked to asking them to ring the police to investigate Madeleine's disappearance?

[Robittybob1]

Arlindo Epifanio Goncalves Fernandes Peleja  says he was aware of a missing child at 21:20 and the table with the 3 couples empty at 21:40 twenty minutes later.  None of the Tapas stories allow for a 20 minute gap between Madeleine missing and the table cleared.  In the tapas 9 stories the table clears at the same time as Madeleine is declared missing.http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/ARLINDO-PELEGA.htm

He also claims there was a strange vehicle in the grounds (was this the Interpol vehicle?).

[Robittybob1]

Monica Azevedo Coutinho Marques  says people were stopping cars and asking questions

A few minutes later she went to a friend's house in P da L, where she stayed until about 22.30. When she was getting ready to go home, she passed some guests who asked her to stop her car. She did this and was asked if she had seen a small girl who had disappeared some moments before, near to that place. Given the situation, she began to search, without success.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MONICA_MARQUES.htm

[Robittybob1]

Testimony from John Elliot Hill 20 June 2007  his statement starts at 10:28 PM!  I would have been happier to know what he was doing from around 9:00 PM on Thursday evening.  He gets confused about the times so he really needs to be reinterviewed by SY.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JOHN_HILL.htm