They were just 50m away, just like dining in ones back garden?

[stephen25000]

I'm on the same forum as you.

This is nothing to do with being on any given forum.

It's called reality.

Madeleine was searched for extensively, by a variety of people.

She disappeared without a trace.

[xtina]

And rightly so he was hindering the search for MM.

didn't not answering the 48 questions .do that .she knew it ...and agreed

it wasn't only G A who thought ...they were involved....so did a lot more colleagues etc etc.....

they would have been better off ignoring the book.

like they have all the others.......not to mention R D H vids

the garden by the way also .how many 50 mtr gardens have a swimming pool as big as that

[Robittybob1]

didn't not answering the 48 questions .do that .she knew it ...and agreed

it wasn't only G A who thought ...they were involved....so did a lot more colleagues etc etc.....

they would have been better off ignoring the book.

like they have all the others.......not to mention R D H vids

the garden by the way also .how many 50 mtr gardens have a swimming pool as big as that

There was no direct route.  It may have been 50 meters visually but it took over 85 meters to walk there.
So is it the walking distance or the looking distance in the OP?

[xtina]

There was no direct route.  It may have been 50 meters visually but it took over 85 meters to walk there.
So is it the walking distance or the looking distance in the OP?

good point but best ask sadi.............

after saying that looking out my garden i can see a house around 40 mtr away..............

but to get to it i would have to walk over 150 mtr...........

so it wasn't like dining in your garden .50 mtr away ...was it.

[Alice Purjorick]

With apologies to Gus Elen:

Oh! it really is a wery pretty garden
And Chingford to the Eastward could be seen
Wiv a ladder and some glasses
You could see to 'Ackney Marshes
If it wasn't for the 'ouses in between

Oh! it really is a wery pretty garden
And 'Endon to the westward could be seen
And by clinging to the chimbley
You could see across to Wembley
If it wasn't for the 'ouses in between

Oh! it really is a wery pretty garden
And soapworks from the 'ousetops could be seen
If I got a rope and pulley
I'd enjoy the breeze more fully
If it wasn't for the 'ouses in between

[sadie]

good point but best ask sadi.............

after saying that looking out my garden i can see a house around 40 mtr away..............

but to get to it i would have to walk over 150 mtr...........

so it wasn't like dining in your garden .50 mtr away ...was it.

Yep it was like dining in your garden visually and sound wise.  Only 50 metres away from the patio door.

Have never tried to claim that the walking distance was only 50 metres, but having measured it as carefully as I am able on GE, it is about 77 metres.

A fit couple like Kate and Gerry would do that in a matter of a very few seconds in emergency.

Believe me, when I tell you that the run up to the triangle on the top of the eastern hills would floor many of us, even walking it.  Kate and Gerry are extra-ordinarily fit.

No one has attempted to claim that the distance walked was 50 metres

[G-Unit]

The group's proximity to the apartment and their fitness levels were irrelevant because Madeleine still disappeared.  If someone took her they were able to do it because no adult was on the premises to guard those children.

All the excuses in the world will never change that.

[Alfie]

The group's proximity to the apartment and their fitness levels were irrelevant because Madeleine still disappeared.  If someone took her they were able to do it because no adult was on the premises to guard those children.

All the excuses in the world will never change that.

That may be true or it may have made no difference - children have been stolen from their beds while their parents have been present at the time.  And you could use the same argument for every child who ever had an accident.  If the parents had been more vigilant and held their child close to them at all times then the chances of them coming to harm would be greatly reduced.  But children have accidents all the time so must we beat up the parents every time?  Is there any point at which you would be prepared to forgive the parents of a child who came to harm because they hadn't been there to prevent it happening?

[G-Unit]

That may be true or it may have made no difference - children have been stolen from their beds while their parents have been present at the time.  And you could use the same argument for every child who ever had an accident.  If the parents had been more vigilant and held their child close to them at all times then the chances of them coming to harm would be greatly reduced.  But children have accidents all the time so must we beat up the parents every time?  Is there any point at which you would be prepared to forgive the parents of a child who came to harm because they hadn't been there to prevent it happening?

So parents decide to leave their kids home alone and check every 30 minutes. Did they assume their kids wouldn't wake and cry for, possibly, 25 minutes or didn't they care? Did they assume no child would get out of bed and get into mischief or didn't they care?  These are not unusual occurrences where small children are concerned.

[Alfie]

So parents decide to leave their kids home alone and check every 30 minutes. Did they assume their kids wouldn't wake and cry for, possibly, 25 minutes or didn't they care? Did they assume no child would get out of bed and get into mischief or didn't they care?  These are not unusual occurrences where small children are concerned.

As I'm not them I'm afraid I can't answer for them.  Children can and do cry and get into mischief even with parents around that much I do know.  Speaking for my own situation my children almost never woke and cried in the night once they were about a year old, in fact I don't recall them ever doing so unless they had a fever or a bug.  If it were me and my kids I would have assumed that once they were asleep they would stay asleep until morning as going on past behaviour and experience there would have been no reason to assume otherwise.

[Robittybob1]

As I'm not them I'm afraid I can't answer for them.  Children can and do cry and get into mischief even with parents around that much I do know.  Speaking for my own situation my children almost never woke and cried in the night once they were about a year old, in fact I don't recall them ever doing so unless they had a fever or a bug.  If it were me and my kids I would have assumed that once they were asleep they would stay asleep until morning as going on past behaviour and experience there would have been no reason to assume otherwise.

You were lucky. 

[Benice]

So parents decide to leave their kids home alone and check every 30 minutes. Did they assume their kids wouldn't wake and cry for, possibly, 25 minutes or didn't they care? Did they assume no child would get out of bed and get into mischief or didn't they care?  These are not unusual occurrences where small children are concerned.

They knew their own children's sleeping habits and based their decision on them.  The twins were in cots and were very good sleepers and if Madeleine did wake up it was only ever late into the night.    They were sitting less than 60 seconds walk away and checking regularly.      If that had not been the established sleeping pattern and any of the children had difficulty getting off to sleep - or were in the habit of waking up in the first few hours  then IMO they would not have made those arrangements.

Obviously nothing is guaranteed never to change - as 5yr old April Jones parents found out when she was abducted from outside her home, even though her parents had confidently allowed her to play out there '100's of times before' because nothing had happened on any of those occasion to make them feel they were putting her in danger.  Other neighbouring parents allowed their children to do the same - but not any more.

Any expectation that parents should be able to foresee every possible danger in a child's life  is never going to happen.    There is no such thing as a perfect parent.  Fortunately the decisions parents make for their children do not usually end in tragedy - but on rare occasions they do.   As far as I am concerned - what happened to Madeleine and also to April are examples of those rare occasions.

There is not a scrap of evidence that the McCanns (or the Jones family) did not care about their children.

AIMHO

[sadie]

The group's proximity to the apartment and their fitness levels were irrelevant because Madeleine still disappeared.  If someone took her they were able to do it because no adult was on the premises to guard those children.

All the excuses in the world will never change that.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/tyne/5402462.stm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willington_Quay_child_abduction_case

The Willington Quay child abduction was a case of the abduction and rape of a 6-year-old girl in Willington Quay, North Tyneside, England, on 27 December 2005, when she was taken while in the bath. A local man, Peter Voisey, a known sex offender, was later convicted of the crime and sentenced to life in prison. The brazen nature of the crime sparked widespread media interest and a Crimewatch appeal. It also sparked the largest ever man-hunt by Northumbria Police. Assertions by the police that the crime had been a case of opportunistic abduction from the home by a stranger were initially met with scepticism, given the seemingly unbelievable nature of the crime.[1] Voisey's conviction also sparked a review of the multi-agency public protection arrangements (MAPPA), which govern the monitoring of past offenders.
The girl was abducted from her ground-floor bath as her mother was in the next-door room. She was driven around the local area for 20 minutes, before being found naked in a snow-covered back alley.

-snip-

The mother was on the premises in the next door room .... yet her little girl was taken.
How do you square your comment up with that Gunit ?

[G-Unit]

There was no reason why they would expect an abductor to enter the apartment and take one of their children and there's no evidence that it happened either, so bringing abduction cases into the mix is irrelevant.

If the McCanns thought their children wouldn't wake up as Benice argues, she needs to explain why Gerry's first thought was that Madeleine may have moved the bedroom door so as to go into her parent's bed to avoid the noise made by her siblings. (10th May statement)

That doesn't suggest that waking and crying were ruled out when the decision to leave the children was made.

[Alfie]

You were lucky.

You could say the same for anyone who hasn't either been the victim of an accident or the parent of a child that hasn't had a serious accident.  But yes, I am lucky, in very many ways.