They were just 50m away, just like dining in ones back garden?

[misty]

The patio area was illuminated by the street lamp opposite ... and because of this any movement would likely have been seen by Mccann friends.

Even Amaral stated that no-one would go in that way with the parents and group so overlooking it..

Someone on their hands & knees wouldn't be seen from the Tapas.

[sadie]

they were still drinking..wine.....and as i said ......they may as well have been 50 mile away...they saw nothing ...zilch

They had wine with their meal, Yes, but not in excess.

Same as anyone at home in their back garden if someone got in thru the front.  They might as wel be 50 miles away, cos they would see nothing either.   The Mccanns believed the front to be locked.

[G-Unit]

The Mccanns WERE in the gardens to the apartments.  The Tapas restaurant is ONLY called Tapas because it is close to the only Tapas bar in the complex.  It could equally be called the pool restaurant or the Tennis Court Restaurant.  It had NOTHING to do with the Tapas Bar apart from being situated near it.


Some friends of ours in the country had a massive markquee erected in their equally massive garden.  It was to house the wedding reception of their daughter.


The so called 'Tapas' Restaurant is rather like a marquee, if a bit more permanent.

As the marquee was in a garden, so the restaurant is in a garden; the garden to the apartments adjoining.

The 'Tapas' Restaurant was in the garden to the apartments

Bridget O'Donnell wasn't convinced, she didn't see it as her garden;

One morning, I saw Gerry and his wife Kate on their balcony, chatting to their friends on the path below. Privately I was glad we didn't get their apartment. It was on a corner by the road and people could see in. They were exposed......
He told us they were leaving theirs sleeping in the apartments. While they chatted on, I ruminated on the pro s and cons of this. I admired them, in a way, for not being paranoid parents, but I decided that our apartment was too far off even to contemplate it. Our baby was too young and I would worry about them waking up.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/dec/14/ukcrime.madeleinemccann

[sadie]

the mccs were not in the apartment was they ......so why go on about children who's mothers/parent were

Are you trying to tell us that YOU dont see the relevance of children being stolen from their homes when their parents were there?

I think you are trying to pull the wool over our eyes, because I am absolutely sure that you are not that dull.

[xtina]

Are you trying to tell us that YOU dont see the relevance of children being stolen from their homes when their parents were there?

I think you are trying to pull the wool over our eyes, because I am absolutely sure that you are not that dull.

you don;t know what they drank .....you wasn't there

and didn;t they have wine .......before they even went out

[sadie]

you don;t know what they drank .....you wasn't there

and didn;t they have wine .......before they even went out

I have read the wine waiters statement.  Have you?

Try reading it.

[xtina]

I have read the wine waiters statement.  Have you?

Try reading it.

he was there to serve wine ......not check who drank what ................

[xtina]

Are you trying to tell us that YOU dont see the relevance of children being stolen from their homes when their parents were there?

I think you are trying to pull the wool over our eyes, because I am absolutely sure that you are not that dull.

they were there.............. as for pulling wool over eyes ..you do a good job of that yourself........

[G-Unit]

Are you trying to tell us that YOU dont see the relevance of children being stolen from their homes when their parents were there?

I think you are trying to pull the wool over our eyes, because I am absolutely sure that you are not that dull.

How can those cases be relevant? No-one has demonstrated yet that Madeleine was abducted. I thought this thread was aimed at discussing whether it was appropriate to decide to leave three small children alone every night in an unlocked apartment. The possibility of a child being abducted didn't come into it. Other more obvious dangers existed which should have led to the parents deciding not to take the risk. .

[Alfie]

Glad to hear it old chap. Anytime.
Maybe you also have a response to the basic proposition ? Like whether you believe that to be the case and if not why not?

They took a risk, but then we all take risks, sometimes we lose, I've already said it, how many more times would you like me to say so?  Daily?

[Mr Gray]

How can those cases be relevant? No-one has demonstrated yet that Madeleine was abducted. I thought this thread was aimed at discussing whether it was appropriate to decide to leave three small children alone every night in an unlocked apartment. The possibility of a child being abducted didn't come into it. Other more obvious dangers existed which should have led to the parents deciding not to take the risk. .

on the balance of probabilities maddie was abducted.....SY agree...you need to get over it

[Mr Gray]

They took a risk, but hen we all take risks, sometimes we lose, I've already said it, how many more times would you like me to say so?  Daily?

both sides would agree the chances of abduction were tiny....basically a risk near zero....but that is what happenned

[Brietta]

the mccs were not in the apartment was they ......so why go on about children who's mothers/parent were

We know the McCanns were eating their evening meal less than a minute from their children and carrying out constant checks.  But as you yourself constantly keep reminding, that was inadvisable such was the state of lawlessness and dangers to children in Portugal of which holidaymakers were in ignorance.
No-one booking their holiday knew that in close proximity to Luz and in at least one case within Luz itself that holidaymakers' children were not safe in their own homes centimetres - not metres from their parents.

If the McCanns had been aware of the true state of affairs would they have left their children even for a second? ... but the fact of the matter may well be that given full information on the facts of the matter ... the more responsible thing for people with children to do would be not to set foot in Portugal at all.

[xtina]

on the balance of probabilities maddie was abducted.....SY agree...you need to get over it

G A .....who was the officer at the time [plus others on team]..say maddie wasn't abducted.....

or it was like being in a garden ..............

[Alice Purjorick]

They took a risk, but then we all take risks, sometimes we lose, I've already said it, how many more times would you like me to say so?  Daily?

Good enough for me.
Who else took or takes risks is irrelevant in this instance.