Who entered Apartment 5A and who didn't - a definitive study.

[Robittybob1]

According to Jackie Williams Charlotte went nowhere immediately;

The witness immediately helped in the searches, whilst her colleague Charlotte remained at the crêche, looking after the other children that were there and waiting for the arrival of the last parents, after which she also began searching.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JACQUELINE_WILLIAMS.htm

(Don't believe what it says in the newspapers)

That is "after this situation".  That is what Charlotte does while the searches are initiated.  It does not say she didn't go with Amy to the apartment.

[Robittybob1]

I should have read on a bit more.  Charlotte says she was there at the apartment but didn't enter it.

- The witness states that she participated in the searches, together with her colleague, Amy, searching various areas of the Ocean Club establishment. She also states that she searched the patio area of the residence where Madeleine stayed with her parents and siblings, and during which, she encountered many individuals inside the apartment but was not able to tell if they were complex employees or friends of the couple. She did not enter the residence in question;

[Robittybob1]

Who was this mystery couple?
"Mystery couple seen going into McCanns’ flat on night before sobbing Madeleine disappeared" http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/400796/Mystery-couple-seen-going-into-McCanns-flat-on-night-before-sobbing-Madeleine-disappeared

So is that another two we have to add to our list?

[G-Unit]

You seem to be taking newspaper stories seriously again. This is the couple who walked past, but it was on Thursday, not Wednesday and if they saw anything they kept it very quiet;

https://madeleinemccannthetruth.wordpress.com/2011/10/24/radio-stoke-speak-to-susan-moyes/

[Robittybob1]

You seem to be taking newspaper stories seriously again. This is the couple who walked past, but it was on Thursday, not Wednesday and if they saw anything they kept it very quiet;

https://madeleinemccannthetruth.wordpress.com/2011/10/24/radio-stoke-speak-to-susan-moyes/

OK the Moyes' walked past on the Thursday but the headline says "Mystery couple seen going into McCanns’ flat on night before sobbing Madeleine disappeared" That is pretty hard to work that out but I take that to mean the night before Madeleine disappeared so the interview with Mrs Moyes does not really describe that IMO.

[G-Unit]

OK the Moyes' walked past on the Thursday but the headline says "Mystery couple seen going into McCanns’ flat on night before sobbing Madeleine disappeared" That is pretty hard to work that out but I take that to mean the night before Madeleine disappeared so the interview with Mrs Moyes does not really describe that IMO.

Your newspaper story says;

''The tip-off was given by two key witnesses who were reinterviewed as part of the Yard’s two-year, £4.5million  investigation.''

It doesn't say who these witnesses were, but a lot of the article is clearly referring to the Moyes;

''We can confirm that a couple staying in the same block as apartment 5a were interviewed last February......They had been at a restaurant earlier in the evening and left at about 9pm''

The article could be read as inferring that these were the 'two key witnesses' but that's highly unlikely as the Moyes saw nothing on either night, as they have said.

[Robittybob1]

Your newspaper story says;

''The tip-off was given by two key witnesses who were reinterviewed as part of the Yard’s two-year, £4.5million  investigation.''

It doesn't say who these witnesses were, but a lot of the article is clearly referring to the Moyes;

''We can confirm that a couple staying in the same block as apartment 5a were interviewed last February......They had been at a restaurant earlier in the evening and left at about 9pm''

The article could be read as inferring that these were the 'two key witnesses' but that's highly unlikely as the Moyes saw nothing on either night, as they have said.

There always seem to be a disconnect between the news items and the files.  Like there are no statements from the Moyes, and even though there were a couple of similarities in the Moyes story to the article there was not enough points to be sure.  I can't be sure.  I don't know.

[G-Unit]

There always seem to be a disconnect between the news items and the files.  Like there are no statements from the Moyes, and even though there were a couple of similarities in the Moyes story to the article there was not enough points to be sure.  I can't be sure.  I don't know.

What you can be sure of is that newspaper stories are usually a mixture of very few facts in amongst lots of rumour, speculation and tenuous connections.

[ShiningInLuz]

What you can be sure of is that newspaper stories are usually a mixture of very few facts in amongst lots of rumour, speculation and tenuous connections.

I can remember an incident from when I was quite young.  I was debating something with my father.  We enjoyed our discussions and he was generally quite good about sorting wheat from chaff.

I cannot remember what the debate was about.  The thing that has stuck in my mind was that my father said it was printed in The Sun, and claimed therefore it must be true.

We had to agree to disagree on that point.

 

[Mr Gray]

I can remember an incident from when I was quite young.  I was debating something with my father.  We enjoyed our discussions and he was generally quite good about sorting wheat from chaff.

I cannot remember what the debate was about.  The thing that has stuck in my mind was that my father said it was printed in The Sun, and claimed therefore it must be true.

We had to agree to disagree on that point.

 

He believed what was written in the sun but you claim he was good a sorting the wheat from the chaff... you need to think that through again

[ShiningInLuz]

He believed what was written in the sun but you claim he was good a sorting the wheat from the chaff... you need to think that through again

You changed the phrase I used - 'generally quite good' - into plain and simple 'good'.  Why?

[Robittybob1]

You changed the phrase I used - 'generally quite good' - into plain and simple 'good'.  Why?

Any system for " sorting the wheat from the chaff" would never be 100% perfect.  Good memory to have of your Dad.  Thanks SIL.

[Robittybob1]

There always seem to be a disconnect between the news items and the files.  Like there are no statements from the Moyes, and even though there were a couple of similarities in the Moyes story to the article there was not enough points to be sure.  I can't be sure.  I don't know.

The Moyes never said they saw anyone enter the apartment (unless their statement is one of the many that appear to have been removed from the file).

[Robittybob1]

the topic has been discussed before:

No one has actually said they saw anyone entering the bedroom.

It is *believed* they entered the bedroom on 2nd May. IMO thats the journalists words in the context of the story being told.

@Carana, I agree the article is a little ambiguous, but the couple on the top flat are not the mystery couple being sought. It is not even clear if the couple, the Moyes, whose statements are described, are the two key witnesses who *tipped off* the police about a couple entering the apartment on the Wednesday, or whether it was others who were interviewed who did this. Six years on tbh I doubt it is them and this info has only just come out.

Unbelievable that James Murray penning stories for six years doesnt know the actual day of the Mrs Fenn crying episode. No one except the Mccanns have ever mentioned anything about any crying on a Wednesday. The date must be wrong. the Moyes never mentioned anything about any crying on a Wednesday and the day od the event, Tuesday, they werent there, so someone else has said this, if its true in the first place and not a fabrication.

Whats curious is that the couple walked home at around 9pm, were in the exact vicinity, were on the balcony at 9.15 and not a peep of seeing Jez Gerry Jane or others coming and going. That the PJ did not formally interview them is unbeleivable too especially as they were there for the whole month. And not even via rogatory. Strange.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/stoke/realmedia/2007/09/click_190907.ram

Scroll down to the Search for Maddie interview with Susan Moyes

Search for Maddie BBC - Stoke and Staffordshire
 
14 August 2007 - Susan Moyes owns an apartment two floors above the one the McCanns stayed in.
 
Transcript
 
By Nigel Moore
 
Question: This is a story you've followed incredibly closely because you were involved on the night; you helped the police and the family in looking for Madeleine, didn't you?
 
Susan Moyes: Yes, we did and, yes, very, very concerned... concerned for the family and followed it, every day... every day.
 
Q: Can you take us back to that night and... and what you were doing and when you first heard there was a problem?
 
SM: Sure. We went out for a meal about 7 o'clock, down in the town, we walked back about 9 o'clock, round past, errm... the... the church, round past the supermarket, back to the apartment, went out on the balcony about quarter past nine - everywhere was peaceful, everywhere was lovely - we then went to bed.
 
We were woken up at half past eleven at night by one of the friends of the McCanns to say 'a little girl' had 'been abducted'; those... those were the words used. So, we got dressed and joined in the search, we were out until about four in the morning with, oooh… about, I don't know, thirty people... thirty other people, maybe. The Mark Warner team were out, errm... and other guests at the Ocean Club.
 
Q: Now, to... to put it into perspective, we've all seen the pictures of the apartment where the McCanns were staying. How close is yours to theirs?
 
SM: Directly above, errm... we are but one above. Mrs Fenn, that lives there, was in the apartment below us and then below that was the McCanns, so directly above.

The Moyes were sat on their balcony at 9:15 PM but report nothing suspicious
Q: And, errr... you were out there for a considerable... a considerable period of time?
 
SM: Yeah, we went out on the Wednesday; the day before sh..., errr... Madeleine went missing and we were out for the month of May.
 
Q: Tell me about the affect all of this has had on the... the local community there.
 
SM: It was, errr... unbelievable really. Apart from the disruption from the mass media, the helicopter - constantly circling round - and sheer disbelief really, everybody was completely, errm... well, amazed by it. Gobsmacked, really.
 
Q: What... I mean, what were the local community saying to you because obviously being out there such a time, you must have spoken to a lot of people about it? It must have been, if you like, the talk of the town.
 
SM: Mmm... There was a lot of criticism of the police, which... which we felt was unfounded, errm... at that time. And... really, a lot of... unsure about exactly what happened. How did somebody get in? Was it the front? Was it the back? Was it left open? Was it forced? A lot of different stories...
 
Q: Speculation, if you like...
 
SM: Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah, yeah.
 
Q: And... we've got a copy of the newspaper here - in fact it's one of today's newspapers - The Express and... and it's still front page news, of course. Back in the news, there...
 
SM: Big... big style, yeah, yeah.
 
Q: How do you feel when you see the pictures here in the newspapers? I mean, have you... have you collected newspapers over the period?
 
SM: Oh yeah, I get the paper every day anyway but obviously followed it very closely and I just… disbelief, no way... no way do I feel they were any way involved in it. Not at all, no.
 
Q: How do you feel they… they've been treated?
 
SM: I think, errm... initially it was very supportive. Personally, I think probably if they'd left the Algarve maybe a month ago, errm... it... it would have been treated more favourably, I think.
 
Q: It's difficult to know how... how to handle that kind of situation, from their point of view though, I suppose, isn't it?
 
SM: Beggar's belief... it beggar's belief, yeah, you just don't want to be in that situation, errm... but, yeah, I can't understand this, errr... the turn of... of people's attitudes towards them, some being really quite nasty, unfounded and... and wrong, I think.
 
Q: Have the newspapers got it right in terms of... of where they were that evening, I mean, the distance from the... the restaurant to the apartment and what have you?
 
SM: Well, yeah, as the crow flies, errm... they're probably about right with the 50 yards but, in actual fact, you do have to... it's walled off, in a walled area - about six foot of wall - so you have to actually have to go through a little, errm... entrance building, out onto the road and then round to their apartment.
 
Q: And line of sight, is there any?
 
SM: Difficult... they wouldn't have had vision of the whole of their, errm... errr... balcony, they would only have had the top of it from... from where they were sitting, because of the wall and because of the flowers on top of the wall.
 
Q: How do you feel about the... the criticism of the McCann family for leaving the children?
 
SM: Harsh... very, very harsh. Hand on heart, we've all done something like that, I think, and errm... no, it's... it's just unfortunate. Just a sad, unfortunate accident.
 
Q: And how do you feel having been, if you like, errm... being swept along with all of this, having been part of this story from the start, being there, at that time when it all happened, I mean, I suspect as a family you must have talked about this over the dinner table for... for weeks and weeks and weeks?
 
SM: Yes... yes, we have, we have, errm... and I just can't get my head round it at all. I can't... I can't understand it and I don't... I don't know if it'll ever be resolved, really.
 
Q: You're off back to... to Portugal soon, I gather, and errm... how do you think Praia da Luz will be when you get back?
 
SM: Yeah, we go back in a couple of weeks, errm... and my husband has actually said for the first time he's going to feel very differently about it, errm... I... I... no, I'm fine about, I'm fine about it, errm... but, yeah, it’s a shame, it's kind of tainted what is a lovely... lovely spot.




************

Holidaymakers tell of late-night search for Madeleine

05/05/2007 - 15:05:45
A British couple on holiday in the Algarve resort where Madeleine McCann was abducted told today how frantic staff knocked on the doors of holidaymakers to get them involved in a search for the missing girl.

Paul Moyes, 58, who is on holiday with his wife, Susan, said: “At 11.30pm there was a knock on the door. I went out in my dressing gown and there was a distressed gentleman there saying that a child had been abducted and could we help with the search. Everybody got involved.”

The couple said the drama unfolded after what they described as “a fabulous day” in the Praia Da Luz resort.

It was as the couple were sleeping that three-year-old Madeleine was snatched from her parents’ holiday apartment below.

Mrs Moyes, 58, from Middlewich, Cheshire, told how they had returned to their apartment at around 9.15pm after an evening out.

“We went into the apartment, I went out on the balcony, looking over at the tapas bar, and remarked to Paul that there were so many people in there eating and drinking – ’what a fabulous day’.”

Among those dining in the tapas bar opposite their apartment were Madeleine’s parents, Gerry and Kate, who were making regular trips back to their own rooms to check on their children.

Mr Moyes said: “I felt quite shattered, to be quite frank. The people were themselves extremely sad and it was quite sad for everybody.

“We were quite emotionally shattered, seeing the family that distressed.”

He said that among those who joined the search were many off-duty police in plain clothes who had been called in to help.

Mrs Moyes said: “Walking around you would see individual men, they were police but you wouldn’t know because they were in casual clothes.”

The couple said they remained on the search until 4am on Friday morning.

Mr Moyes described the resort as idyllic and safe. His wife added: “It is paradise.”


Edited

[Robittybob1]

The Moyes never said they saw anyone enter the apartment (unless their statement is one of the many that appear to have been removed from the file).

There is nothing of interest about the Moyes that can be located on a Google search so ewe will never know who were the couple seen entering the McCann's apartment on Wednesday night.