Who entered Apartment 5A and who didn't - a definitive study.

[Robittybob1]

From the original Portuguese statement
"que tem cohecimento da situacao que occureu no Ocean Club, referente ao desparecimeto da crianca, tendo cido informado no propria dia, pelas 2230hrs atraves da telefone pelo Administador do Ocean Club, o qual havia contactado com a sua esposa, Sra. Silvia Batista.... "

Translates to
"Which is aware of the situation that occurred in the Ocean Club, referring to the disappearance of the child, having been informed on the same day, at 22.30hrs on the telephone by the Manager of the Ocean Club, which had contacted his wife Sra. Silvia Batista......"

which makes absolute sense.

Well that sentence/paragraph makes perfect sense except that the name of the " Manager of the Ocean Club" is not mentioned.  Note: Generally it is John Hill who referred to as the " Manager of the Ocean Club".
But the bit that is worrying me the most are the next three paragraphs of Joao's statement.  In particular the third one that translates to something like "That the room from which the girl disappeared was sealed off after the arrival of the GNR, as there were some persons inside the room, whom he supposed were the girl's parents, their friends, the OC Administrator, who had called his wife, Silvia Batista, to come to the site to help with translations."

[Robittybob1]

"whom he supposed were" i.e. supposition.

He could have supposition about who "the friends" were but not about "the OC Administrator (who had called his wife, Silvia Batista, to come to the site to help with translations)."

[Robittybob1]

Note I have amended my posts above to make them more correct.

[Robittybob1]

He could have supposition about who "the friends" were but not about "the OC Administrator (who had called his wife, Silvia Batista, to come to the site to help with translations)."

I am trying to see if there is a better translation of line 34 -37 of the page http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P3/03_VOLUME_IIIa_Page_541.jpg
for I typed a section of it into Google translate and got a completely different meaning. 
"e o administrador do ocean club tendo posteriormente a sua esposa Sra. Silvia Batista sido chamada ao local para efectuar a tradução."
became "And the administrator of the ocean club after having his wife Mrs. Silvia Batista been called to the place to carry out the translation." Which doesn't really make sense either.  So I'm trying to get a Portuguese speaker to look at the text.
The translation officially is ""the OC Administrator (who had called his wife, Silvia Batista, to come to the site to help with translations)."
or without brackets "the OC Administrator, who had called his wife, Silvia Batista, to come to the site to help with translations."

[misty]

I am trying to see if there is a better translation of line 34 -37 of the page http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P3/03_VOLUME_IIIa_Page_541.jpg
for I typed a section of it into Google translate and got a completely different meaning. 
"e o administrador do ocean club tendo posteriormente a sua esposa Sra. Silvia Batista sido chamada ao local para efectuar a tradução."
became "And the administrator of the ocean club after having his wife Mrs. Silvia Batista been called to the place to carry out the translation." Which doesn't really make sense either.  So I'm trying to get a Portuguese speaker to look at the text.
The translation officially is ""the OC Administrator (who had called his wife, Silvia Batista, to come to the site to help with translations)."
or without brackets "the OC Administrator, who had called his wife, Silvia Batista, to come to the site to help with translations."

You must remember it is Joao who is making the statement so the word "his" can be interpreted in 2 ways.

[Robittybob1]

You must remember it is Joao who is making the statement so the word "his" can be interpreted in 2 ways.

My Portuguese speaking friend has replied with a translation that puts a new light on what is being said by Joao.

"During the time that he remained in the village in search of the missing child, he did not notice anything abnormal or different, nor was he commented on any suspicious situation. (Lines 32 and 33)

The dwelling where the child disappeared and the surrounding area was isolated after the arrival of the GNR, and inside the house some people remained, supposing to be the parents of the child, some friends, and the Administrator of the Ocean Club, Having later his wife Ms. Silvia Batista been called to the place to do the translation. (Lines 34 to 37)"

So I picture that as being Emma Knights (the Administrator of the Ocean Club) later called Joao's wife (Silvia Batista) to the place to do the translations.
The area was isolated but there remained people within the cordoned area "the parents of the child, some friends, and the Administrator of the Ocean Club" and later SB because she was called in.

Originally the translation was: "That the room from which the girl disappeared was sealed off after the arrival of the GNR, as there were some persons inside the room, whom he supposed were the girl's parents, their friends, the OC Administrator, who had called his wife, Silvia Batista, to come to the site to help with translations."

So the difference for me is that "the OC Administrator, who had called his wife, Silvia Batista, to come to the site to help with translations." may or may not be the same person who call Sylvia earlier when she was in Lagos.
Compare that with:
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JOAO_BATISTA.htm translations of lies 23 -25.
"That he knows about the situation in the OC relating to the disappearance of the little girl, having been informed on the same day, at about 22.30 by phone by the OC administrator, who had contacted his wife, Silvia Batista."

Is the "the OC administrator" in both cases the same?

I wouldn't say I am fully convinced of the new interpretation yet.  Can you see any other way of looking at it?

[Robittybob1]

You must remember it is Joao who is making the statement so the word "his" can be interpreted in 2 ways.

Could you explain what you mean please?

[Robittybob1]

In Kate's book only Emma Knights and Silvia Batista are the two OC Administrators over in the apartment,  so the word his can only apply to Joao Batista with Silvia Batista being his wife.  What other situation could the word "his" mean anything else?
Emma Knights may have rung Silvia to act as an interpreter, I don't see any problem with that except what time was that?
Emma Knights admits speaking with John Hill.
"The search lasted for about 10 minutes and then we returned. At that moment John asked me to go to the apartment the girl had disappeared from and, on behalf of Mark Warner, provide all the help the family might need."
Would that have been a phonecall.
"At about 22.17 I received a call from Lyndsey Johnson, the creche Manager, informing me that the girl had gone missing. I met Lyndsey and the Service Manager, Amy Tierney, near to the Tapas Bar and we initiated the 'Mark Warner procedures for the search of a missing child'."
If that part of the search lasted 10 minutes  and John is informed at 10:28 by Lyndsey that Madeleine wasn't immediately found John would have rung Emma after this.  Therefore it could be perfectly possible for Emma to ring Silvia just after 10:30 PM.

[Robittybob1]

In the missing pages from the DVD files... http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MISSING_PAGES.htm

 
"112 OC workers were questioned, amongst them some of English nationality and with the use of interpreters.

In addition, formal questioning was made of English employees most involved, from the MW company -?15 child care workers and two tennis instructors. Also eleven informal questionings with employees who carry out other types of activity. In total, 28 persons. Due to their absence, three individuals were not questioned, Euan Crosby, Steven Jackson and Emma Knights respectively."  Yet Emma Knight was interviewed before the file was released.

[Robittybob1]

Does anyone mention Emma Knight in their statements?
Even John Hill doesn't mention Emma Knights!

I see the Emma Knight statement was sourced from the Leicestershire Police Force. 

"On the night of 3rd May, after having finished work, I planned to meet a group of colleagues at 22.30 to go out. At about 22.17 I received a call from Lyndsey Johnson, the creche Manager, informing me that the girl had gone missing. I met Lyndsey and the Service Manager, Amy Tierney, near to the Tapas Bar and we initiated the 'Mark Warner procedures for the search of a missing child'."  Did any of these mention her.

Lindsay, Amy doesn't mention her.  Do the McCanns mention her?

In a file titled "LIST OF PEOPLE MCCANN'S WANTED INTERVIEWED"  Emma Knight is first mentioned as a potential witness. 

"7 - But, at that time, the direction of the investigation was apparently different, [that being] the reason why some of these witnesses were not heard on the matters mentioned above, currently considered relevant to the prosecution of the investigation and who already were, furthermore, the object of actual proceedings, namely the questioning and the interrogations of the applicants.

We submit that, their testimony [being] essential to the discovery of the truth, and given that the witnesses designated above actually live in the United Kingdom, where they will be found, (except Dan Smith and Emma Knights who will be found in Portugal), it is requested further, under Arts. 229 and following of CPP, 145 and following of Law 14-4/99 of 31 August (Law of International Legal Assistance in Criminal Matters) and 3 and following of the European Convention on Mutual Legal Support in Criminal Matters, that a Rogatory Letter be expedited for them to be heard in the United Kingdom.

They ask that the request be granted


•  The Advocates
CARLOS PINTO DE ABREU
ROGERIO ALVES"


There must be some significance to the fact that no one mentions Emma Knight, not even Gerry.

[Robittybob1]

Did Euan Crosby, Steven Jackson go into the apartment also?

[Robittybob1]

I'm a bit surprised that no one replied to my study on Emma Knight.

Two further things that are odd about Emma Knight are:

2. Her apparent absence from the investigation (and hence the excuse she is not interviewed).  OK it is possible she disappeared so suddenly and thoroughly that no one knew where she was, days after Madeleine went missing.
You would think that in itself would make alarm bells ring.

3.  The way her statement starts at and with events that are after 10:00 PM is unsatisfactory and in some ways is similar in that respect to John Hill's statement.
We need to know what these two were doing prior to 9:00 PM and then what happened during the hour from 9:00 - 10:00 that night for that is the time when the "abduction" was perpetrated.

The work produced on Silvia Batista and Emma Knight in the last few days has been notified to Operation Grange.

[Robittybob1]

I'm a bit surprised that no one replied to my study on Emma Knight.

Two further things that are odd about Emma Knight are:

2. Her apparent absence from the investigation (and hence the excuse she is not interviewed).  OK it is possible she disappeared so suddenly and thoroughly that no one knew where she was, days after Madeleine went missing.
You would think that in itself would make alarm bells ring.

3.  The way her statement starts at and with events that are after 10:00 PM is unsatisfactory and in some ways is similar in that respect to John Hill's statement.
We need to know what these two were doing prior to 9:00 PM and then what happened during the hour from 9:00 - 10:00 that night for that is the time when the "abduction" was perpetrated.

The work produced on Silvia Batista and Emma Knight in the last few days has been notified to Operation Grange.

There are plenty of photos of Emma Knight and John Hill at the OC after the 3rd May so how come she is said to be absent?

[misty]

Does this, the full request, help you?
http://themaddiecasefiles.com/topic170.html

The title of rogatory interview tends to suggest that there had been an original interview which was withheld from the public files.

[Robittybob1]

Does this, the full request, help you?
http://themaddiecasefiles.com/topic170.html

The title of rogatory interview tends to suggest that there had been an original interview which was withheld from the public files.

"Group 3 (people who saw and/or spoke with Kate and Gerry at the time they noticed Madeleine's disappearance):
....
• Emma Knights, with address at ...> (Ocean Club, c / o Mark Warner) (3,519,614 ####)
....."

"6 - It is certain that some of these witnesses have already been heard, at least once, in the investigation.

7 - But, at that time, the direction of the investigation was apparently different, [that being] the reason why some of these witnesses were not heard on the matters mentioned above, currently considered relevant to the prosecution of the investigation and who already were, furthermore, the object of actual proceedings, namely the questioning and the interrogations of the applicants.

We submit that, their testimony [being] essential to the discovery of the truth, and given that the witnesses designated above actually live in the United Kingdom, where they will be found, (except Dan Smith and Emma Knights who will be found in Portugal), it is requested further, under Arts. 229 and following of CPP, 145 and following of Law 14-4/99 of 31 August (Law of International Legal Assistance in Criminal Matters) and 3 and following of the European Convention on Mutual Legal Support in Criminal Matters, that a Rogatory Letter be expedited for them to be heard in the United Kingdom. "

It is possible she had been spoken to.