Kate McCann: I believe kidnapper drugged my twins night Madeleine was taken.

[Benice]

Except she says she was clearheaded enough to raise her concerns. Unfortunately there is absolutely no record of it, not from the police officers she said she raised her concerns to, not her friend who was with her most of that night, not the translator who would have to have translated those concerns to the non-English speaking police officers, not even Gerry who contradicts his own wife's account.

So it's not that Kate was so stressed she wasn't thinking rationally. The rub is that she claims she was but no one was listening but for that there is just no evidence.

From Kate's book it would seem that Silvia (Batista?) was helping to translate when Kate and David Payne were talking to the 2 GNR officers.  So altogether that makes 4 people she was translating for just at that one time.    I  don't know how many other people she helped with translation during those hours but I would certainly not expect her to remember every word of every conversation she had with various people that night.    If a group of people were all talking together then IMO it would be impossible for her to keep a perfect record of it all in her head - people tend to talk over one another.

Kate doesn't say what response was made by the GNR officers to her concerns   Speculation - I know - but it could be that before they could respond David Payne began talking to them and the subject changed to roadblocks etc.   Who knows?

IMO its unrealistic to believe that the only conversations which took place between the various parties that night are  those recorded in the files and that  if it's not in the files it didn't happen.

It's also unrealistic IMO to believe that summarised versions of statements cover every word the witness said during interview. 

Once again - that is why I think it's a mistake to treat witness statements (unless they are verbatim) as if they are  completely accurate summaries which leave nothing out.   They clearly are not.

AIMHO

[G-Unit]

Isn't hindsight a wonderful thing and it's so easy to be wise after the event.

IMO your 'expectations' of how Kate should have behaved at the worst time of her life are completely OTT as they take no account whatsoever of her state of mind - having suddenly been plunged into every parent's worst nightmare - without warning.

I do not understand how anyone with children themselves would expect any parent to be thinking coherently, rationally or logically at a time of such panic-stricken terror and pain - but would actually expect them to behave almost as if nothing of major importance had just happened.   

It wasn't the family hamster who had disappeared it was their beloved daughter.   Their whole world was crashing down around them.  Don't you see that?       Anyone who thinks that should not have impaired their thinking and that they should have been able to prioritise and make calm, reasoned decisions during that time -  can only be completely devoid of the ability to empathise in my opinion.    I can't think of any other reason.

I haven't suggested that anyone should have made calm reasoned decisions. I would expect the mother to panic more than someone with no knowledge of the dangers of sedation. Not only had she lost her beloved eldest daughter, she feared her other two children were in danger. I would expect overreaction with hysterical screams for all possible care of her remaining children to make sure they were OK. She reports no panic at this further blow and no sense of urgency.

[Mr Gray]

I haven't suggested that anyone should have made calm reasoned decisions. I would expect the mother to panic more than someone with no knowledge of the dangers of sedation. Not only had she lost her beloved eldest daughter, she feared her other two children were in danger. I would expect overreaction with hysterical screams for all possible care of her remaining children to make sure they were OK. She reports no panic at this further blow and no sense of urgency.

dangers of sedation....

would you like to tell us about them and how many serious incidents there have been

[G-Unit]

From Kate's book it would seem that Silvia (Batista?) was helping to translate when Kate and David Payne were talking to the 2 GNR officers.  So altogether that makes 4 people she was translating for just at that one time.    I  don't know how many other people she helped with translation during those hours but I would certainly not expect her to remember every word of every conversation she had with various people that night.    If a group of people were all talking together then IMO it would be impossible for her to keep a perfect record of it all in her head - people tend to talk over one another.

Kate doesn't say what response was made by the GNR officers to her concerns   Speculation - I know - but it could be that before they could respond David Payne began talking to them and the subject changed to roadblocks etc.   Who knows?

IMO its unrealistic to believe that the only conversations which took place between the various parties that night are  those recorded in the files and that  if it's not in the files it didn't happen.

It's also unrealistic IMO to believe that summarised versions of statements cover every word the witness said during interview. 

Once again - that is why I think it's a mistake to treat witness statements (unless they are verbatim) as if they are  completely accurate summaries which leave nothing out.   They clearly are not.

AIMHO

So Silvia perhaps didn't hear it, you think? Or she, a mother, heard it but didn't bother translating it? She didn't react at all? Despite the lack of reaction from Silvia and the GNR Kate didn't repeat it and make sure they got this vital information? She didn't even try again with the PJ?

[G-Unit]

dangers of sedation....

would you like to tell us about them and how many serious incidents there have been

I have already provided information about how careful medical staff are with paediatric sedation in an earlier post.

[Mr Gray]

I have already provided information about how careful medical staff are with paediatric sedation in an earlier post.

that doesnt answer my question

[Benice]

So Silvia perhaps didn't hear it, you think? Or she, a mother, heard it but didn't bother translating it? She didn't react at all? Despite the lack of reaction from Silvia and the GNR Kate didn't repeat it and make sure they got this vital information? She didn't even try again with the PJ?

I don't know - I wasn't there,  but I am able to understand that panicked people would not be acting or talking in the calm coherent way they would usually be, if they were just having a normal conversation.  There were 5 people trying to communicate in that group - when Kate expressed her concern.

I think it's unfair to expect Silvia - who AFAIK was not a trained interpreter to remember every conversation she helped to translate that night for so many different people - or even to remember everything that she simply overheard - especially if people were talking in groups -  and then expect her to be able to repeat it all back purely from memory days later.

(Sorry must go out now)

[G-Unit]

I don't know - I wasn't there,  but I am able to understand that panicked people would not be acting or talking in the calm coherent way they would usually be, if they were just having a normal conversation.  There were 5 people trying to communicate in that group - when Kate expressed her concern.

I think it's unfair to expect Silvia - who AFAIK was not a trained interpreter to remember every conversation she helped to translate that night for so many different people - or even to remember everything that she simply overheard - especially if people were talking in groups -  and then expect her to be able to repeat it all back purely from memory days later.

(Sorry must go out now)

I think suggesting that the two remaining children may have been sedated would have registered because it would have been very alarming.

[Alfie]

I think suggesting that the two remaining children may have been sedated would have registered because it would have been very alarming.

Or maybe it was dismissed as the hysterical ravings of a panicked woman and no importance given to it whatsoever.

[Mr Gray]

Kate checked that the twins breathing
Rate
Depth
Was normal and decided they were in no danger

[G-Unit]

Or maybe it was dismissed as the hysterical ravings of a panicked woman and no importance given to it whatsoever.

Somewhat risky doing that, it could have led to a tragedy.

[G-Unit]

Kate checked that the twins breathing
Rate
Depth
Was normal and decided they were in no danger

Please provide your cite showing that the children's breathing rate and depth was checked.
Please provide your cite showing that the mother decided her children were in no danger.
Please provide your cites showing the recommended action in cases of suspected sedation of a child.

[misty]

Please provide your cite showing that the children's breathing rate and depth was checked.
Please provide your cite showing that the mother decided her children were in no danger.
Please provide your cites showing the recommended action in cases of suspected sedation of a child.

There were 2 qualified doctors in attendance. I'm sure if you were in the same position, the clinical judgement of 2 trained UK doctors would be of greater reassurance to you than that of a pair of foreign paramedics.

[stephen25000]

There were 2 qualified doctors in attendance. I'm sure if you were in the same position, the clinical judgement of 2 trained UK doctors would be of greater reassurance to you than that of a pair of foreign paramedics.

So these two doctors were able to determine by looking, if there were traces of foreign substances in their children's bloodstreams.

Now that is magic.

[Alfie]

Somewhat risky doing that, it could have led to a tragedy.

But it didn't.  Kate McCann and her doctor friend(s) made the correct call.