Kate McCann: I believe kidnapper drugged my twins night Madeleine was taken.

[jassi]

If the McCanns were doing regular checks on their children throughout the week, as they claim, how did they manage to miss these crying episodes?

[John]

The people who allegedly heard the 2 extended periods of crying never told the parents......so how were the parents to know? Madeleine only made one brief comment about crying.

Fair point but then that exposes the checking claims on previois nghts a bit of a charade.  Wasn't Kate supposed to have returned to the apartment early on the Wed night after the yoga girl incident?  That being the night that two strangers were supposed to have entered the apartment after hear a child wailing.  I must say, I would have investigated the crying too had I been there that night on finding no responsible adults anywhere.  It would be interesting to know if these two people reported the incident to reception.

[misty]

But correct me if I am wrong but weren't the PJ in the case you have posted proactive in having the child checked out in case it had been sedated? Further Silvia Batiste recollections were untarnished by panic so why didn't she mention that she had translated Kate's concerns to the PJ and note that nothing was done? Do you think if she had any inkling  that the twins may have been in danger she would not have made sure Kate's concerns were taken seriously by the police officers present?

Why did police need to check if the child had been sedated when it was the parents who were just drunk & disorderly?
Sylvia Batiste couldn't recall the clothes KM had been wearing that night so I doubt she had an excellent recollection of everything which she translated. I think the poor woman was probably so in demand that night her recollections were tarnished by stress.

[sadie]

Reading through all the comments on this thread and referencing the fact that on the two nights prior to Madeleine's disappearance children were heard crying sorely and for an extended period. It is curious then that on the very night that Madeleine disappeared there wasn't a sound from the apartment and the twins were noted by several observers to be unusually unresponsive?

Two nights before Madeleine vanished, Mrs Fenn heard a long period of crying.  However, we still do not know from whence that crying came.   Had it involved Madeleine or the twins, why didn't Madeleine mention it to her Mum and Dad, as she did after some crying the following night ?   

We know that the twins did cry on the Wednesday but it seems that was only minor because no report by Mrs Fenn; a woman who seemed very worried by crying.


The couple who supposedly entered 5A to console any child crying do not IMO carry any validity.  No names divulged, nor any names from the people who were supposed to know the couple going in.   IMHO they were just another myth ... a stick to beat the Mccanns with

I dont believe anyone would hear crying from 5A, unless they went up close to the childrens window.  No-one had reason for going there, nor had any business going there ...  unless like Matt, they were putting their ear against the window to check for crying.


So, we dont know who cried on the Tuesday, maybe kids from another family? 
Furthermore, we dont know how long or hard the twins cried on Wednesday ?  But no complaints from Mrs Fenn.



So I agree with you, John, up to a point ... and that point is that it seems there was real pattern of crying that we know about.

However, i do wonder if the twins along with Madeleine were drugged in some way.  Madeleine more deeply drugged perhaps?


And I wonder this because Madeleine was sooo tired after her tea that she had to be carried home.   Did someone drop something in her (and the twins) hot chocolate or sandwich?

The children were too tired to go out for their normal play with the other children that evening.   And I bet that play time on the slide etc., with friends, was the highlight of their day.

[misty]

Fair point but then that exposes the checking claims on previois nghts a bit of a charade.  Wasn't Kate supposed to have returned to the apartment early on the Wed night after the yoga girl incident?  That being the night that two strangers were supposed to have entered the apartment after hear a child wailing.  I must say, I would have investigated the crying too had I been there that night on finding no responsible adults anywhere.  It would be interesting to know if these two people reported the incident to reception.

Alternatively, the parents & their group are telling the truth about the checking& the extended periods of crying just didn't happen. Rachel was right next door on the Wednesday & heard nothing.
Madeleine would have had to have been out on the patio wailing for anyone to venture up there - otherwise, no passer-by would have known adults were not inside.

[slartibartfast]

Two nights before Madeleine vanished, Mrs Fenn heard a long period of crying.  However, we still do not know from whence that crying came.   Had it involved Madeleine or the twins, why didn't Madeleine mention it to her Mum and Dad, as she did after some crying the following night ?   

We know that the twins did cry on the Wednesday but it seems that was only minor because no report by Mrs Fenn; a woman who seemed very worried by crying.


The couple who supposedly entered 5A to console any child crying do not IMO carry any validity.  No names divulged, nor any names from the people who were supposed to know the couple going in.   IMHO they were just another myth ... a stick to beat the Mccanns with

I dont believe anyone would hear crying from 5A, unless they went up close to the childrens window.  No-one had reason for going there, nor had any business going there ...  unless like Matt, they were putting their ear against the window to check for crying.


So, we dont know who cried on the Tuesday, maybe kids from another family? 
Furthermore, we dont know how long or hard the twins cried on Wednesday ?  But no complaints from Mrs Fenn.



So I agree with you, John, up to a point ... and that point is that it seems there was real pattern of crying that we know about.

However, i do wonder if the twins along with Madeleine were drugged in some way.  Madeleine more deeply drugged perhaps?


And I wonder this because Madeleine was sooo tired after her tea that she had to be carried home.   Did someone drop something in her (and the twins) hot chocolate or sandwich?

The children were too tired to go out for their normal play with the other children that evening.   And I bet that play time on the slide etc., with friends, was the highlight of their day.

Mrs Fenn was out on the Wednesday night.

[faithlilly]

Why did police need to check if the child had been sedated when it was the parents who were just drunk & disorderly?
Sylvia Batiste couldn't recall the clothes KM had been wearing that night so I doubt she had an excellent recollection of everything which she translated. I think the poor woman was probably so in demand that night her recollections were tarnished by stress.

But they did have the child checked and that's the point.

This is from SB first statement

"At the request of Kate she (the witness) to remove their puppets drink and a blanket that she took to the first floor flat. Only the mattresses remained.
She wanted to mention that around 3h00 Madeleine's parents asked for a priest to be present. "

Are you really asking us to believe that SB would remember the above but fail to recall being asked to tell the police that Kate believed her children may have been sedated and could be in danger? Really ?

[Alfie]

Can you provide a cite?

From Truth of the Lie

Friday May 4th

This morning I am worried; something isn’t right in the account of the events:

Amaral then writes that they must gather as much i formation about the parents as possible such as whether either suffered from depression.  So he was supicious from the off it would seem.  Perhaps you could give a cite for thr police believing the parents version of events initially.

[sadie]

Mrs Fenn was out on the Wednesday night.

Cite please.

[Alfie]

But they did have the child checked and that's the point.

This is from SB first statement

"At the request of Kate she (the witness) to remove their puppets drink and a blanket that she took to the first floor flat. Only the mattresses remained.
She wanted to mention that around 3h00 Madeleine's parents asked for a priest to be present. "

Are you really asking us to believe that SB would remember the above but fail to recall being asked to tell the police that Kate believed her children may have been sedated and could be in danger? Really ?

why are we still arguing about this?  Misty has proved that the McCanns were concerned their children may have been sedated from the off, so what point are you trying to make?

[Alfie]

You're very black and white?

What happened to the thread in question then?

[faithlilly]

why are we still arguing about this?  Misty has proved that the McCanns were concerned their children may have been sedated from the off, so what point are you trying to make?

Where has she proved that?

She has proved they asked about whether any drug had been used in the disappearance on the 5th of May. She has not proved they voiced their concerns about the twins being sedated either then or on the night of the third. In fact Gerry admits as much in his arguidos interview


"-- When questioned if the twins woke while the apartment was being searched, he replies negatively. When they were taken to another apartment he does not know if they woke as he did not take them. When asked, he says that this was not normal, and can find no reason for it happening. He still thought at this moment that the twins might have been drugged by the possible abductor, even if he only mentioned this to the Police several days later."

[misty]

But they did have the child checked and that's the point.

This is from SB first statement

"At the request of Kate she (the witness) to remove their puppets drink and a blanket that she took to the first floor flat. Only the mattresses remained.
She wanted to mention that around 3h00 Madeleine's parents asked for a priest to be present. "

Are you really asking us to believe that SB would remember the above but fail to recall being asked to tell the police that Kate believed her children may have been sedated and could be in danger? Really ?

Two policeman noticed the condition of the twins, Faithlilly - irrespective of anything the McCanns or SB may or may not have said. Responding to the sight of Calpol, as in the Irish case, appears to be more important than the suggestion of any sedation carried out by an intruder.

[faithlilly]

Two policeman noticed the condition of the twins, Faithlilly - irrespective of anything the McCanns or SB may or may not have said. Responding to the sight of Calpol, as in the Irish case, appears to be more important than the suggestion of any sedation carried out by an intruder.

As has been pointed out to you several times now Misty the police officers could have had no idea whether this state of deep sleep was normal or not, the McCanns did. Are you really trying to say that if the police officers were inept enough not to summon help for the twins this lets her parents off the hook?

[Alfie]

Where has she proved that?

She has proved they asked about whether any drug had been used in the disappearance on the 5th of May. She has not proved they voiced their concerns about the twins being sedated either then or on the night of the third. In fact Gerry admits as much in his arguidos interview


"-- When questioned if the twins woke while the apartment was being searched, he replies negatively. When they were taken to another apartment he does not know if they woke as he did not take them. When asked, he says that this was not normal, and can find no reason for it happening. He still thought at this moment that the twins might have been drugged by the possible abductor, even if he only mentioned this to the Police several days later."

I'm trying to understand what angle you are coming at this from.  It seemed your initial argument was that the McCanns never raised their suspicions about sedation with th police at all, which, had they been in the habit of regularly sedating their own children might have been understandable.  However the fact is we know that only two days after Madeleine went missing they were wanting answers from the PJ about the possibility that their children had been sedated, which would be a very odd thing to draw attention to if they were guilty of regularly sedating their kids.  So can you please tell me what you are trying to suggest here?