Kate McCann: I believe kidnapper drugged my twins night Madeleine was taken.

[G-Unit]

You must accept it didn't happen.  So the only bit is that they asked for it and that is coveredf in G-unit's post.

OK the twins are not specifically mentioned but if for a moment the PJ think that the sedation of the twins might facilitate the abduction they would logically be the ones to test, for Madeleine isn't there is she.

They asked the FLO's if the PJ had any evidence that Madeleine was drugged. We don't know if they asked the PJ, but if they did the answer was no, the PJ didn't have any evidence. Had they raised their 'fears' about the twins the PJ may have suggested testing them, but they weren't told about the twins. As far as they knew the twins were sleeping naturally.

[Alice Purjorick]

Wouldn't the PJ require written consent from the parents and /or a court order to carry out any form of medical tests ?

[Alfie]

The gist of the argument here seems to be that the McCanns were so negligent, evil even that they were prepared to let their kids die in their arms the night Madeleine went missing. 

[G-Unit]

You are not thinkng logically IMO.  I have already said what I think.  I have already pointed out the extraordinary circumstances they found themselves in, and the fact that there were probably more doctors in Apartment 5a that night than there were on call in the local hospital.  Doctors can and do monitor the health of patients without the need to always hook them up to "complicated machines".   The fact is the McCanns DID draw attention to possible sedation of the children which certainly is not something I would do if I had been regularly administering overdses of a mystery drug to my own children.  It's inviting the authorities to uncover their evil secret and certain to make them strongly suspect they had a hand in their child's disappearance.

It is illogical to suggest that doctors can monitor health without the use of some basic equipment. That's why vital signs are the first check done by paramedics and A & E staff. That's why nurses do obs at regular intervals. Ambulance staff carry ECG machines to check the heart on the spot. Anyone who thinks doctors can cope without tools needs to get real.

Kate McCann says she drew the attention of the GNR officers to her fears of sedation, but there is no supporting evidence that she did so.

The parents asked the FLO's if the PJ had any evidence that Madeleine, not 'the children' was drugged. If it didn't make the UK police officers suspicious, why do people think it would make the PJ suspicious?

[G-Unit]

The gist of the argument here seems to be that the McCanns were so negligent, evil even that they were prepared to let their kids die in their arms the night Madeleine went missing.

Despite the belief of some that doctors can magically make diagnoses by looking, touching or cuddling, the fact is they can't. After looking and touching Kate McCann says she feared her twins had been sedated. She didn't diagnose it, she feared it. A rank amateur finding someone in a very deep sleep who doesn't waken when they should knows to shake them to check them. For a doctor not to take that step is beyond belief if she truly feared they had been sedated.

[Alfie]

It is illogical to suggest that doctors can monitor health without the use of some basic equipment. That's why vital signs are the first check done by paramedics and A & E staff. That's why nurses do obs at regular intervals. Ambulance staff carry ECG machines to check the heart on the spot. Anyone who thinks doctors can cope without tools needs to get real.

Kate McCann says she drew the attention of the GNR officers to her fears of sedation, but there is no supporting evidence that she did so.

The parents asked the FLO's if the PJ had any evidence that Madeleine, not 'the children' was drugged. If it didn't make the UK police officers suspicious, why do people think it would make the PJ suspicious?

Are you telling me that doctors are unable to tell if a person's pulse rate or breathing is irregular or abnormal without equipment?

[Alfie]

Despite the belief of some that doctors can magically make diagnoses by looking, touching or cuddling, the fact is they can't. After looking and touching Kate McCann says she feared her twins had been sedated. She didn't diagnose it, she feared it. A rank amateur finding someone in a very deep sleep who doesn't waken when they should knows to shake them to check them. For a doctor not to take that step is beyond belief if she truly feared they had been sedated.

When I go to my GP with a medical complaint I am rarely if ever hooked up to complicated machines.  Diagnoses are nearly always done as a result of touching, listening and looking (no cuddles for me sadly). 

[Alfie]

Despite the belief of some that doctors can magically make diagnoses by looking, touching or cuddling, the fact is they can't. After looking and touching Kate McCann says she feared her twins had been sedated. She didn't diagnose it, she feared it. A rank amateur finding someone in a very deep sleep who doesn't waken when they should knows to shake them to check them. For a doctor not to take that step is beyond belief if she truly feared they had been sedated.

So what can we take away from this discussion, apart from it being another opportunity to harp on and criticise?  Can we draw any inferences or conclusions do you think? 

[misty]

Despite the belief of some that doctors can magically make diagnoses by looking, touching or cuddling, the fact is they can't. After looking and touching Kate McCann says she feared her twins had been sedated. She didn't diagnose it, she feared it. A rank amateur finding someone in a very deep sleep who doesn't waken when they should knows to shake them to check them. For a doctor not to take that step is beyond belief if she truly feared they had been sedated.

The addition of 2 screaming toddlers would have really helped the situation at the time.

[Alfie]

It's amazing that this apparent negligence wasn't investigated by the authorities to get those poor twins taken into care.  Fancy them being allowed to be brought up by two such monsters! 

[sadie]

I'm merely stating facts. Two physicians, one trained in anaesthetics, found two unresponsive children who they believed had had an unknown drug administered yet did nothing to inform anyone in an official capacity of their concerns. As a doctor if you had done that in any ER department you would have been the subject of, at the very least, disciplinary action. Can you argue with any of that?

Were they officially unresponsive, or were they just sleeping very deeply?

The first term 'Unresponsive' suggests that tests were done on them to ascertain this.

I am not aware of any tests being done.  Are you ?



Where does the term 'unresponsive' as applied to the twins originate?

[sadie]

Please provide your evidence showing that either of the parents asked any PJ officer at any point to test the twins for sedation. Even Kate McCann has never claimed she asked the GNR or the PJ to do that.

Two FLO's say they mentioned sedation, but not in relation to testing the twins, it was evidence already in the PJ's possession they were interested in.

They also wanted to know whether the PJ had any evidence that would suggest that the person who took Madeleine had used any substance to facilitate the abduction.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/STEPHEN_MARKLEY.htm

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JIM_McGARVEY.htm

IIRC one of the first GNR Officers in mentioned the way that the twins were so quiet and sleeping so soudly.  Was it the senior GNR officer who reported this?  His report went in to Amaral, did it not?

Why was there no action ?


If I have any of this wrong, I am sure someone will shoot me down

[Alfie]

IIRC one of the first GNR Officers in mentioned the way that the twins were so quiet and sleeping so soudly.  Was it the senior GNR officer who reported this?  His report went in to Amaral, did it not?

Why was there no action ?


If I have any of this wrong, I am sure someone will shoot me down

Nelson Filipe Pacheco da Costa – Statement, 17 October 2007
He says that in the apartment there were two beds and two cots placed in Madeleine’s room, he does not remember their position. The children never woke up, he is sure, not knowing what position they were in, however he found this situation to be very strange, as a lot of noise was made.

[sadie]

IIRC one of the first GNR Officers in mentioned the way that the twins were so quiet and sleeping so soudly.  Was it the senior GNR officer who reported this?  His report went in to Amaral, did it not?

Why was there no action ?


If I have any of this wrong, I am sure someone will shoot me down

Here we are
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/NELSON-DA-COSTA.htm

-snip- He says that in the apartment there were two beds and two cots placed in Madeleine's room, he does not remember their position. The children never woke up, he is sure, not knowing what position they were in, however he found this situation to be very strange, as a lot of noise was made. -snip-

ETA
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JOSE_ROQUE.htm

-snip-  He says there were two children in cots placed in Madeleine's room in a transversal position to the beds. The children never woke up, were in a ventral position, they did not even move during or after the search.  -snip-


So two officers, in their statements, alerted to the fact that the twins slept unusually deeply, not even waking up with all the noise. 

Why didn't Amaral and co notice that right at the beginning ... and do detective work to find out why they slept so deeply

Why was none done after Kate mentioned their fears of a sedative having been administered?


Why why why ?   Doesn't make sense.

[Mr Gray]

It is illogical to suggest that doctors can monitor health without the use of some basic equipment. That's why vital signs are the first check done by paramedics and A & E staff. That's why nurses do obs at regular intervals. Ambulance staff carry ECG machines to check the heart on the spot. Anyone who thinks doctors can cope without tools needs to get real.

Kate McCann says she drew the attention of the GNR officers to her fears of sedation, but there is no supporting evidence that she did so.

The parents asked the FLO's if the PJ had any evidence that Madeleine, not 'the children' was drugged. If it didn't make the UK police officers suspicious, why do people think it would make the PJ suspicious?

I am real
Why would you need an ecg to check a child who was sedated
I have extensive training in sedation and life support so can speak with authority but once again you think you know more than professionals