Kate McCann: I believe kidnapper drugged my twins night Madeleine was taken.

[sadie]

This is my last reply to you Sadie so no answer needed. This is what Alfie posted :

'In my opinion (conjecture here, remember I am not the McCanns so this could be completely wrong, and don't start ascribing my thoughts to them) the McCanns may have thought that their children had been gassed as stories of holiday makers being gassed and robbed on the continent have been doing the rounds for many years.

Not sure I could twist those words.

You omitted the important bit which qualified Alfies words ... so altered the meaning.  You used this twisted meaning repeatedly, post after post

How about owning up and apologizing, instead of trying to wriggle out of it ?

[stephen25000]

The McCann's and the police should have insisted the children were checked and blood samples taken for analysis.

There are no excuses for why it wan't done, by either party.

As Doctors, the McCann's would know how important this was to do. So WHY DIDN'T THEY INSIST IT WAS DONE ?

[slartibartfast]

You omitted the important bit which qualified Alfies words ... so altered the meaning.  You used this twisted meaning repeatedly, post after post

How about owning up and apologizing, instead of trying to wriggle out of it ?

So did Alfie say it or not?

[G-Unit]

One of the children had disappeared. The others seemed to be sleeping unnaturally deeply. She was scared for them too. What a nightmare! One gone and the others sleeping so deeply that their mother feared they had been sedated.

If they had been sedated by criminals no care would have been taken to make sure the sedative was suitable for children of their ages. No care would have been taken to make sure the correct dose was administered. The children's condition could have worsened dangerously at any moment.

Paediatric sedation is very closely controlled because each child responds differently. During sedation doctors are advised to;

Maintain continuous oxygen saturation and heart rate monitoring
Record vital signs and blood pressure every 15 minutes for conscious sedation and every 5 minutes for deep sedation
Record drug dose and time administered
Record state of consciousness and response to stimulation

After the completion of the procedure, keep recording vital signs until the patient responds appropriately to a voice or gentle stimulation.

 it is prudent to expect the worst and to have suction and airway equipment at the bedside and ready to use if necessary. Equipment should include an appropriately sized positive-pressure oxygen delivery system, suction apparatus, and suction catheters (eg, tonsil, Yankauer). Age-appropriate equipment for measuring blood pressure and oxygen saturation should be available, and continuous oxygen saturation monitoring is recommended. A crash cart with age-appropriate drugs and equipment should be readily available.
http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/804045-overview#a11

Unlike a layperson the people with the children should have been aware of all the possible complications when sedating children. They should have known the importance of having the correct monitoring equipment and the frequency with which it should have been carried out. They should have known how important it is to have resuscitation equipment available.

Given all the above, wandering in several times and feeling at the children's backs seems woefully inadequate and extremely dangerous. Sedated children need much more than that. At the very least they should have gone to hospital overnight where all the equipment needed for observation and monitoring was available. .

[Benice]

Cite for the 3rd?

According to  Kate she and David Payne spoke to the 2 GNR officers who arrived first (around 11.00p.m.)  - and she expressed her concern to them regarding sedation. 

Page 99 of her book refers.

Quote

We tried to explain what had happened.  David reiterated his concerns about roadblocks and border notification and I reported my fears that all three children could have been sedated.
End quote

[G-Unit]

According to  Kate she and David Payne spoke to the 2 GNR officers who arrived first (around 11.00p.m.)  - and she expressed her concern to them regarding sedation. 

Page 99 of her book refers.

Quote

We tried to explain what had happened.  David reiterated his concerns about roadblocks and border notification and I reported my fears that all three children could have been sedated.
End quote

What Kate's number one priority should have been was to get her children to a place where the right equipment was available in case their condition worsened.

[Alfie]

What Kate's number one priority should have been was to get her children to a place where the right equipment was available in case their condition worsened.

Kate and Fiona, possibly some of the other doctors in their party judged that the twins were in no immediate danger of death.  Their judgement was absolutely spot on as the twins were fine the next day.  Kate McCann is (unless you know otherwise and can provide evidence to support your claim) a loving and caring mother who would not deliberately allow her children to die in her arms no matter what spurious reason you can dream up for thinking that she might. 

[faithlilly]

Please refrain from lifting selective quotations from a member's post accompanied by a failure to provide a link to the post for verification.
You may not intend to be intentionally duplicitous but in my opinion that is how your posting in such a manner is coming over.

Alfie's full quote is ...
In my opinion (conjecture here, remember I am not the McCanns so this could be completely wrong, and don't start ascribing my thoughts to them) the McCanns may have thought that their children had been gassed as stories of holiday makers being gassed and robbed on the continent have been doing the rounds for many years.  Before you all jump down my throat I know these stories are considered by many to be a load of hogwash but it still doesn't take away from the fact that such occurrences have been widely reported in the media.  So it is possible that this was a thought going through Kate's panicked mind at the time. Personally I think it's an unlikely scenario, and I also think it's unlikely the children were sedated.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?board=18.0

I was merely pointing out that it was Alfie who raised the subject so only part of the post was required. I did not say what his thinking on the subject was so highlighting the last sentence was unnecessary.

[faithlilly]

Kate and Fiona, possibly some of the other doctors in their party judged that the twins were in no immediate danger of death.  Their judgement was absolutely spot on as the twins were fine the next day.  Kate McCann is (unless you know otherwise and can provide evidence to support your claim) a loving and caring mother who would not deliberately allow her children to die in her arms no matter what spurious reason you can dream up for thinking that she might.

Tell me Alfie if you presented yourself at A&E with an unresponsive child who you believed had been given an unknown drug what would you expect the doctors to do a) give the child a bit of a cuddle after feeling the child's back or b) immediately ascertain through blood tests what had been given and then carry out further tests to ascertain and control the damage that may have been done?

[Benice]

What Kate's number one priority should have been was to get her children to a place where the right equipment was available in case their condition worsened.

Isn't hindsight a wonderful thing and it's so easy to be wise after the event.

IMO your 'expectations' of how Kate should have behaved at the worst time of her life are completely OTT as they take no account whatsoever of her state of mind - having suddenly been plunged into every parent's worst nightmare - without warning.

I do not understand how anyone with children themselves would expect any parent to be thinking coherently, rationally or logically at a time of such panic-stricken terror and pain - but would actually expect them to behave almost as if nothing of major importance had just happened.   

It wasn't the family hamster who had disappeared it was their beloved daughter.   Their whole world was crashing down around them.  Don't you see that?       Anyone who thinks that should not have impaired their thinking and that they should have been able to prioritise and make calm, reasoned decisions during that time -  can only be completely devoid of the ability to empathise in my opinion.    I can't think of any other reason.

[stephen25000]

Isn't hindsight a wonderful thing and it's so easy to be wise after the event.

IMO your 'expectations' of how Kate should have behaved at the worst time of her life are completely OTT as they take no account whatsoever of her state of mind - having suddenly been plunged into every parent's worst nightmare - without warning.

I do not understand how anyone with children themselves would expect any parent to be thinking coherently, rationally or logically at a time of such panic-stricken terror and pain - but would actually expect them to behave almost as if nothing of major importance had just happened.   

It wasn't the family hamster who had disappeared it was their beloved daughter.   Their whole world was crashing down around them.  Don't you see that?       Anyone who thinks that should not have impaired their thinking and that they should have been able to prioritise and make calm, reasoned decisions during that time -  can only be completely devoid of the ability to empathise in my opinion.    I can't think of any other reason.

No need for hindsight.

There never was.

The children should have been tested.

One has to wonder why the Mccann's didn't insist on it.

[jassi]

What was the purpose of this cuddling? Kate had been quite happy to leave them physically  unattended for hours before that.

[faithlilly]

Isn't hindsight a wonderful thing and it's so easy to be wise after the event.

IMO your 'expectations' of how Kate should have behaved at the worst time of her life are completely OTT as they take no account whatsoever of her state of mind - having suddenly been plunged into every parent's worst nightmare - without warning.

I do not understand how anyone with children themselves would expect any parent to be thinking coherently, rationally or logically at a time of such panic-stricken terror and pain - but would actually expect them to behave almost as if nothing of major importance had just happened.   

It wasn't the family hamster who had disappeared it was their beloved daughter.   Their whole world was crashing down around them.  Don't you see that?       Anyone who thinks that should not have impaired their thinking and that they should have been able to prioritise and make calm, reasoned decisions during that time -  can only be completely devoid of the ability to empathise in my opinion.    I can't think of any other reason.

Except she says she was clearheaded enough to raise her concerns. Unfortunately there is absolutely no record of it, not from the police officers she said she raised her concerns to, not her friend who was with her most of that night, not the translator who would have to have translated those concerns to the non-English speaking police officers, not even Gerry who contradicts his own wife's account.

So it's not that Kate was so stressed she wasn't thinking rationally. The rub is that she claims she was but no one was listening but for that there is just no evidence.

[Robittybob1]

No need for hindsight.

There never was.

The children should have been tested.

One has to wonder why the Mccann's didn't insist on it.

Think of the other things the McCanns wanted and insisted on?  Openness, borders controlled and road blocks.  There is proof they had suggested looking for evidence for the use of sedatives on the 5th May 2007.  How that concern for drug testing was transmitted to the PJ investigation was not made clear.

[Alfie]

Tell me Alfie if you presented yourself at A&E with an unresponsive child who you believed had been given an unknown drug what would you expect the doctors to do a) give the child a bit of a cuddle after feeling the child's back or b) immediately ascertain through blood tests what had been given and then carry out further tests to ascertain and control the damage that may have been done?

I have no idea, having never been in that situation but I would think the first step of any doctor would be to use their eyes, ears and touch to assess the patient before immediately sticking needles in it.

Now you tell me - do you think Kate McCann was quite prepared to let her kids die that night?