Kate McCann: I believe kidnapper drugged my twins night Madeleine was taken.

[Alfie]

I daresay Fiona Payne should be trussed in chains and hurled into the deepest dungeon ..,

But it seems we only have the knives out for Kate McCann on this issue, never mind that Fiona Payne was arguably in a better, more clear headed position to know whether or not the children were in mortal danger that night.

[G-Unit]

Do you actually think they could have got instant toxicology tests & results immediately upon arrival at Lagos hospital - based on a suspicion?

I never said they could, you did. I expect their first reaction would have been to check the children's level of responsiveness. That is, after all, the first reaction of any first-aider, paramedic or doctor. I find it amazing that it wasn't checked by the well qualified UK doctors.

[stephen25000]

Let's have some cites from independent and verifiable sources, as regards what G-Unit has requested.

[Alfie]

I never said they could, you did. I expect their first reaction would have been to check the children's level of responsiveness. That is, after all, the first reaction of any first-aider, paramedic or doctor. I find it amazing that it wasn't checked by the well qualified UK doctors.

So talk us through exactly, minute by minute, everything that Kate did vis-a-vis the twins.

[G-Unit]

You may well have a long, long wait for that.........

I'm well aware of that. I'm also well aware that people posting opinion as fact are wasting their efforts because their opinions don't count.

[G-Unit]

Please provide some common sense to the discussion.  Kate and Fiona Payne are qualified medical practitioners.  They can tell when someone is in urgent need of medical attention, or do you dispute this?

By instinct? I would hope doctors would be more precise. Thankfully I haven't encountered one of these doctors who, according to davel, use instinct to make diagnoses. I would definitely have asked for a second opinion.

[G-Unit]

The cite is from an expert who has been administering sedation for 40 yrs
I'm not in the slightest bothered if you don't accept it
It is of no importance to anyone what you believe

You can post anything you like, but if you can't provide supporting evidence it means nothing.

[Alfie]

By instinct? I would hope doctors would be more precise. Thankfully I haven't encountered one of these doctors who, according to davel, use instinct to make diagnoses. I would definitely have asked for a second opinion.

So you'd accuse Fiona Payne of medical malpractice then?

[stephen25000]

Still waiting for cites to be provided,  as G-United requested, and quite rightly.

I and others provide cites, but it seems that  some who request that of others are totally incapable of doing it themselves.

From that inevitable conclusions will be drawn.

[Mr Gray]

You can post anything you like, but if you can't provide supporting evidence it means nothing.

To anyone with an ounce of common sense
And that's who is important
I think my posts do mean something

[stephen25000]

You can post anything you like, but if you can't provide supporting evidence it means nothing.

Precisely G-Unit.

[stephen25000]

As a brief reminder, as it seems to be needed.


You cannot determine by touch or by measuring the pulse, if someone has drugs or any sedative in their bloodstream, let alone the concentration of a given substance or substances.

The presence of some substances can be detected externally, if they have an odour significantly strong enough to be detected by the human nose. Likewise, that is qualitative, not quantitative.


Anyone who claims they can detect substances in a bloodstream by touch or the equivalent, should see a Doctor. 

[Mr Gray]

By instinct? I would hope doctors would be more precise. Thankfully I haven't encountered one of these doctors who, according to davel, use instinct to make diagnoses. I would definitely have asked for a second opinion.

the diagnosis is made on the assessment on the chest movements which are instinctively assesed by the trained hand
Is that simple enough for you
Experienced doctors react instinctively

[stephen25000]

It would seem that we have some witch-doctors on here.

That is quite sad.

[Mr Gray]

As a brief reminder, as it seems to be needed.


You cannot determine by touch or by measuring the pulse, if someone has drugs or any sedative in their bloodstream, let alone the concentration of a given substance or substances.

The presence of some substances can be detected externally, if they have an odour significantly strong enough to be detected by the human nose.


Anyone who claims they can should see a Doctor. 

You can assess by asssessing chest movements and looking at the colour of lips if a patient is on any sort of danger from the administration of a sedative drug