CSI and cadaver dog expert Martin Grime after Portugal.

[faithlilly]

So it's your view that anyone who is employed by the police on a regular basis must be entirely above criticism or have his abilities questioned or doubted, correct?

Please don't put words into my mouth. I was simply saying that some of the most highly respected law enforcement agencies in the world pay for his services when they obviously have canine handlers closer to home and probably at less cost is a very clear indicator of the value they put on his expertise.

[Eleanor]

It is not an exact science, as Judge Belvin Perry Junior pointed out.

[Alice Purjorick]

Here's an example of a website which provides accreditation from various bodies in connection with its dogs & also confirms the frequency with which the handlers attend NPCC training (NPCC has replaced ACPO).
http://www.k9patrol.co.uk/our-accreditations
There seem to be several people advertising specialist dog training in the UK on the internet, including this company employing a specialist https://www.facebook.com/events/1011861982226551/.
With reference to EL Insurance, GSSi lists no employees therefore no EL is required. I presume when work outside MG's own speciality is contracted out he ensures that the contractor has appropriate PL insurance.
The opinion on Grime's business was raised by a poster & sanctioned by a mod. Perhaps it's a topic which shouldn't be here at all.

That shows just how far out of your depth you are.
Rule 1: Always check the definitions.

All the information that has been forthcoming so far has indicated that Mr Grime is a director of a trading company with more assets than liablities and cash in the bank. The website shows the company has a client base for which works are/were carried out. There would appear to be no claims against him for any nefarious activities or bogus claims.
So what's the issue?
It is possible to libel a limited company so I would suggest posters and mods are bit cute on this.

[ferryman]

The question is: Can We Gauge Grime's Competency as a Canine Handler  by His Work After PDL

I have produced evidence which suggests we can.

[ferryman]

At HdLG; I'll bet the good citizens of Jersey give thanks each day that Grime benevolently gave them a discount on his fees.

[ferryman]

Grime made a presentation, showing him [Harper] a video of the dog finding the "scent of death" in Kate and Gerry McCann's car,' the detective said.

'They were still formal suspects and the case had got worldwide publicity. It seemed to get Lenny very excited. I think Grime kind of bewitched him.'

Dave Warcup, Jersey's acting chief police officer, told The Mail on Sunday that he had appointed an independent team of auditors to examine Harper's spending. It includes two forensic accountants and a police expert in seizing criminals' assets.

The team's interim report, seen by this newspaper, reveals that Grime was paid £750 a day for the first seven days he spent on the island and £650 a day for the following 136 days.

Yet Grime, who had left South Yorkshire police in July 2007 and was selling his dogs' services through his private business, had failed to keep up the Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO) licence that certified Eddie as a police 'cadaver dog'.

Grime did have a second sniffer dog, Keela, but its licence expired a fortnight after they arrived in Jersey.

ACPO rules governing UK police dogs state: 'Dog and handler teams that fail to remain in-licence are deemed "not competent".'

Grime admitted to The Mail on Sunday that the dog's licence had lapsed. He said: 'After I retired, my dogs were tested according to my own standards which are more stringent than ACPO's. But Jersey is not in the UK, so they were in their rights to employ whoever they wanted.' He said his fees were 'all agreed' and that he had given Jersey a 'discount'.

Asked about the 'human remains' found by Eddie that turned out to be coconut, Grime said bizarrely: 'People aren't right 100 per cent of the time. Otherwise they wouldn't be human.'

The auditors' interim report concludes: 'It was an expensive mistake to bring in Mr Grime. It would have been far preferable and much cheaper to have tried to obtain appropriately trained dogs and handlers from UK police forces.'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1217863/Bungled-Jersey-child-abuse-probe-branded-20million-shambles.html

[Mr Gray]

Grimes competence was compromised by a conflict of interest imo

[ferryman]

Grimes competence was compromised by a conflict of interest imo

Yes!

He was keen to get his name in lights at the start of his freelance career.

[Angelo222]

Grimes competence was compromised by a conflict of interest imo

I disagree, Grime was constrained by the facilities provided to him which in the event were not ideal.  Eddie did give positive alerts however and that will never change despite the humbug.

[Mr Gray]

I disagree, Grime was constrained by the facilities provided to him which in the event were not ideal.  Eddie did give positive alerts however and that will never change despite the humbug.

And according to the experts no inference can be drawn from the alerts without any forensic confirmation
That's the undeniable truth despite what some posters would like to think

[ferryman]

I disagree, Grime was constrained by the facilities provided to him which in the event were not ideal.  Eddie did give positive alerts however and that will never change despite the humbug.

"Constrained" in what sense?

What "facilities"?

[Mr Gray]

I disagree, Grime was constrained by the facilities provided to him which in the event were not ideal.  Eddie did give positive alerts however and that will never change despite the humbug.

And what humbug
If you don't understand the insignificance of unconfirmed alerts then you will have serious difficulty in reaching the correct conclusions

[Mr Gray]

I wonder if Grime realised his admission that the alerts only have value if there is forensic confirmation would be broadcast all over the net
It can't have been good for his business

[Brietta]

Without having a full history of Martin Grime's employment record after his stint in Praia da Luz and Jersey it is a very difficult remit for members to go anywhere near the demands of the thread title.
In fact I think the collective informed knowledge of members along the lines required to stay on topic has proved to be exceedingly limited
So as usual your opinion is spot on.

As far as I know, Martin Grime's accreditation for training and working dogs is for life and one can only imagine his expertise will only increase the longer he continues.

I think the problem arising from the inspections in Praia da Luz was the misinterpretation and misplaced emphasis placed on the dog alerts before they had been verified by forensics.
That was not entirely the fault of the handler and his dogs.  In my opinion having been used to working with police who understood the concept the handler underestimated the lack of understanding of most of the Portuguese investigators. Thus the combination of impatience in waiting for results from forensics and desperation to make an arrest proved a toxic mix which had disastrous consequences.

It is probably highly unusual for so much of an investigation to hinge on the results of the interim and unverified work of a dog team.  One seldom hears of the working 'failures' and 'successes' of such in court ... only the resultant evidence is produced.

Perhaps, apart from American cases where Martin Grime has appeared as an expert witness, that is why we know so little of his subsequent working life post Praia da Luz which may have very well been an aberration in normal working practices.

[ferryman]

Without having a full history of Martin Grime's employment record after his stint in Praia da Luz and Jersey it is a very difficult remit for members to go anywhere near the demands of the thread title.
In fact I think the collective informed knowledge of members along the lines required to stay on topic has proved to be exceedingly limited
So as usual your opinion is spot on.

As far as I know, Martin Grime's accreditation for training and working dogs is for life and one can only imagine his expertise will only increase the longer he continues.

I think the problem arising from the inspections in Praia da Luz was the misinterpretation and misplaced emphasis placed on the dog alerts before they had been verified by forensics.
That was not entirely the fault of the handler and his dogs.  In my opinion having been used to working with police who understood the concept the handler underestimated the lack of understanding of most of the Portuguese investigators. Thus the combination of impatience in waiting for results from forensics and desperation to make an arrest proved a toxic mix which had disastrous consequences.

It is probably highly unusual for so much of an investigation to hinge on the results of the interim and unverified work of a dog team.  One seldom hears of the working 'failures' and 'successes' of such in court ... only the resultant evidence is produced.

Perhaps, apart from American cases where Martin Grime has appeared as an expert witness, that is why we know so little of his subsequent working life post Praia da Luz which may have very well been an aberration in normal working practices.

Good post.

I think the most revealing post-Praia da Luz assignment of Grime's was the Bianca Jones case in America, mainly for its parallels in Grime's modus operandi with that he adopted in Praia da Luz.