CSI and cadaver dog expert Martin Grime after Portugal.

[Alice Purjorick]

Never heard of that one before, Alice. I remember Sundown & If you could read my mind.

It's from "The Wreck Of The Edmund Fitzgerald". Sundown was a bit naughty in places as I recall.

[Alice Purjorick]

I just keep thinking that if those AoA's were attached to the FMLNSU Ltd.......
So, even with a P&L sheet it would be impossible to tell how well the Canine Handling aspect of the business had fared since Luz.

That would depend on how the accountant chose to delineate the areas of trading. The company was set up in 2009 btw.
Most small companies will adopt Companies House Model Form AoAs which pretty much say the company can do what it likes to turn a squid or two as long as it is legal and in accordance with the Companies Act 2006.
It's so you can buy a company off the shelf and not worry about the actual business. Today a Fellmonger and tomorrow a Diamond Cutter.
There would be nothing wrong with FMLNSU Ltd operating to Model Forms of AoAs. In practical terms it has only added in more prescriptive objectives......I think. I haven't read them for a while so am going on memory.

[faithlilly]

Interesting in that none of his claimed successes can be independently verified.  I'm sure if it was a McCann list of claimed successes you'd be demanding third party, independent verification!

I'm sure if Mr Grime would be able to supply independent verification if asked to by any party interested in using the service he offers, don't you? In the end isn't that what's important?

[Alfie]

I'm sure if Mr Grime would be able to supply independent verification if asked to by any party interested in using the service he offers, don't you? In the end isn't that what's important?

I've no idea what he would and wouldn't be able to supply, but you seem to trust him implicitly which is lovely.

[ferryman]

Perhaps you could tell us why his dogs alerted then?

BTW: interesting that in his long list of successes Grime chooses not to give us a single cite for the cases so they cannot be challenged.

You took the words out of my mouth, Alfie.

[ferryman]

This is what Wiltshire Police made of Grime's contribution at Haut de la Garenne:

We now deal with the introduction of Martin GRIME and his Enhanced
Victim Recovery Dog (EVRD) to Operation Rectangle. Operation
Haven has established through enquiry with the NPIA, that
Martin GRIME was an ACPO accredited dog handler whilst he was a
serving police officer, but forfeited accreditation upon his retirement in
July 2007. We mentioned that Mr GRIME remains on the ACPO
accredited list of experts though his EVRD is no longer accredited by
ACPO. Whilst Martin GRIME’s original contract to Jersey was for five
days, his actual deployment lasted for 130 days.
3.10.12 The forensic review carried out by    X of the NPIA
questioned the presence of Martin GRIME on site for such a long
time. X , was informed that Martin GRIME had been
acting as a Deputy Crime Scene Manager to Forensic Service
Manager X , at the request of DCO HARPER. The forensic
review noted Martin GRIME’s lack of formal training or qualifications
to perform the role of Deputy Forensic Service Manager and that to
utilise him in this role ‘cannot be recognised as good practice’. The
review also noted that ‘there was concern from some persons
interviewed that too much reliance had been placed on the dogs’. It is
accepted that dogs are ‘presumptive screening assets’ only and that
any alerts or indications they give must be forensically corroborated.
In addition, it is a fact that there were no concise terms of reference
for the deployment of Martin GRIME and his EVRD or his subsequent
use as a search advisor, apparently with the support of
DCO HARPER.
3.10.13 CO POWER himself states ‘the search dog seemed to play a
significant role in determining whether a specific location needed to
be examined further. I am not an expert on dogs or what they do’.
3.10.14 Again, there is a distinct lack of documentary evidence to show any
intrusive supervision of the SIO with regard to the continued search.
This Inquiry concludes that the actions of DCO HARPER and
Martin GRIME went unsupervised for some considerable time. To
Page 116 of 383


Supervision Highly Confidential – Personal Information
CO POWER’s credit, there is an e-mail exchange between him and
DCO HARPER dated 10 May 2008 in which CO POWER raises the
question of the continued use of Martin GRIME and his EVRD. He
says ‘Lenny, it has struck me for some time that he [Mr GRIME] is an
expensive resource who has more than his fair shared of down time’.
DCO HARPER replied in the same e-mail string ‘to be fair to him
though, he hasn’t got much down time as he is also the NPIA search
coordinator and is fully employed’. CO POWER replies ‘Thanks.
Better understood now’. CO POWER does not appear to pursue the
matter further.
3.10.15 However, DCO HARPER’s reply was not factually accurate.
Martin GRIME was neither an NPIA search advisor nor fully
employed. In his statement, Martin GRIME states that ‘I am a Subject
Matter Expert registered with the UK National Policing Improvement
Agency and specialist homicide canine search advisor… I advise
Domestic and International Law enforcement agencies on the
operational deployment of police dogs in the role of homicide
investigation. I develop methods of detecting forensically recoverable
evidence by the use of dogs and facilitate training’. His expertise lay
purely in the use of dogs in searching, not as a 'search co-ordinator'.

https://www.gov.je/SiteCollectionDocuments/Government%20and%20administration/R%20WiltshireOperationHavenRedacted%2020081112%20JN.pdf

[Alice Purjorick]

I'm sure if Mr Grime would be able to supply independent verification if asked to by any party interested in using the service he offers, don't you? In the end isn't that what's important?

In someplaces it would be considered relevant. In the PdL Bubble it has no relevance whatsoever.
Did you ever watch South Park ?

[ferryman]

Interesting that Grime appears to have retained his identical profile post Praia da Luz to the one he used when he applied for the position at PdL.

If he didn't update or amend it at all, it will still have declared that he is a 'serving' officer with South Yorkshire Police ....

[ferryman]

Remind me how much Grime's dogs were reputed to earn in a day, someone please?

When I find the link, I'll be able to tell you how much Eddie actually earnt.

Meanwhile, here's keela:

Keela, a 16-month-old springer spaniel, has become so accomplished a sniffer dog that she can earn more than her chief constable.
She spends most of her working life on crime scene investigations in her native south Yorkshire. But in quiet times she and her handlers, PCs Martin Grimes and John Ellis, are hired out to other forces for £530 a day plus expenses.
If she worked every day, this would add up to nearly £200,000 a year - £70,000 more than her chief constable, Med Hughes.
Keela's sense of smell is so keen that she can sniff out blood on clothes even after they have been washed repeatedly in biological powder. She can also pick out microscopic amounts of blood on weapons that have been scrubbed "clean" after an attack.
Detectives then use her initial assessment to determine the course of their investigations.
"We have been in situations where the place appears to be so clean than the scene-of- crime experts can't find any evidence," said Pc Ellis. "But we take Keela in and she will find the minutest traces of blood.
"It's not like looking for a needle in a haystack any more. We have two other dogs that will find the haystack; Keela will find the needle."
He added: "When we are called in by other forces they are obviously charged a fee. It's quite funny to think that she can earn more than the chief constable."
Pc Grimes said Keela had to be trained to alert her handler in a different way. "Normal recovery dogs will bark to signal a find, but in this case it is not appropriate," he said.
"Instead the dog will locate the contaminated area by pointing at the spot where the blood is situated. This is much more accurate."
The next step in Keela's career is an expenses-paid trip to help the FBI. "The Americans are very interested in how we work because they don't have this sort of facility," said Pc Ellis.
"At the moment they have to use civilian help. The quality can be variable so they have had their fingers burnt a few times."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1506609/The-police-dog-that-earns-more-than-her-chief-constable.html

And lo:

Answer to the question of how much Eddie earnt emboldened in the link below, together with the confirmation that Eddie's training was (sic) in accordance with standard ACPO guidelines (which say nothing about sending dogs to America to be trained on human remains).

I would like to request the following under the FOI Act:

1.         Which cases has Eddie the Springer spaniel sniffer dog been used in within the South Yorkshire Force area over the last five years?  Please provide a breakdown for each year.

2.         Which cases has Eddie the Springer spaniel sniffer dog been used in outside the South Yorkshire Force Area over the last five years? Please provide a breakdown for each year.

3.         What does the South Yorkshire constabulary charge for Eddie the sniffer dog’s services?

4.         Please could you provide a breakdown of the fees and expenses charged for each case Eddie the Springer spaniel sniffer dog has been deployed in outside the South Yorkshire area in the last three years?

5.         To whom is money made payable for the services of Eddie the sniffer dog?

6.  Who owns Eddie the sniffer dog?

7. What training did Eddie receive to assist him in his duties?

Exemptions Applied:
None

SYP Response:
 

1. Which cases has Eddie the Springer spaniel sniffer dog been used in within the South Yorkshire Force area over the last five years?

Eddie, the specialist dog is no longer with South Yorkshire Police. He and his handler left the Force in August 2007. The information supplied therefore relates to his service between 2003 and 2007.

 

Information relating directly to the nature of each Victim Search Dog deployment, if made public could cause unnecessary distress to the persons and families connected with the deceased. However, we can provide the following details regarding Victim Search Dog deployments between 2003 and 2007:

 

As two teams working together: handler Ellis and dog Frankie, with handler Grime and dog Eddie have been deployed on twenty occasions, with the recovery of four bodies.

 

Working alone, Grime/Eddie have been deployed on seventeen occasions with the recovery of one body and Ellis/Frankie have been deployed on five occasions with the recovery of three bodies, this includes the recovery of two women in one grave.

 

2. Which cases has Eddie the Springer spaniel sniffer dog been used in outside the South Yorkshire Force Area over the last five years? Please provide a breakdown for each year.

Out of the twenty occasions where the dog teams were deployed together, two deployments were in the South Yorkshire Police Force area and the remainder were out of the force.

 

All seventeen deployments for Grime/Eddie working alone were to external forces.

 

Two deployments for Ellis/Frankie were in the South Yorkshire Police Force area and the remaining three were to external forces.

 

3. What does the South Yorkshire constabulary charge for Eddie the sniffer dog’s services?

The daily charges for the deployment of Eddie were £700 per day Monday to Friday and £900 per day for weekly leave days and bank holidays. These charges have not changed over the last five years and are still applicable to date.

 

4. Please could you provide a breakdown of the fees and expenses charged for each case Eddie the Springer spaniel sniffer dog has been deployed in outside the South Yorkshire area in the last three years?

The breakdown for the fees and expenses charged for the deployment of Eddie the Springer Spaniel Victim Search Dog outside the force area are calculated as follows:

 

The figures are based on 2006-2007 costing:

 

Salary cost Police Constable: £41,900, 8 hour productive day £192.20

 

Deployment based on 16 hour day Mon to Friday more than 7 days notice

Cost for 8 hour working day

Cost for 8 hours overtime

NI on above

Cost dog for the day £10.52

Use of vehicle based on 300 miles

5% Admin fee

The total amounts to £837 but SYP would charge £700

 

Deployment based on 16 hour day Saturday or Sunday including Bank Holidays or less 7 days notice

Cost for 16 hours at double time

NI on above

Cost dog for the day £10.52

Use of vehicle based on 300 miles

5% Admin fee

The total amounts to £1035.50 but SYP would charge £900

 

5. To whom is money made payable for the services of Eddie the sniffer dog?

All monies received for the deployment of Eddie during his time with South Yorkshire Police were paid to South Yorkshire Police.

 

6. Who owns Eddie the sniffer dog?

Ownership of Eddie was transferred from South Yorkshire Police to his handler Martin Grime when he retired from the Force in 2007.

 

7. What training did Eddie receive to assist him in his duties?

When Eddie was with South Yorkshire Police he received training in line with the ACPO dog committee standards for specialist dog training. The training was and in relation to current dogs is 18 days per annum.

 

www.acpo.police.uk/asp/policies/Data/dog_training_manual.doc

FOI Category:
Investigations

[ferryman]

Of course, these days, Grime works for a private dog-handling club for private citizens and dog-owners that, I believe, he founded.

[misty]

Why are there no professional accreditations displayed on his website?

[G-Unit]

Of course, these days, Grime works for a private dog-handling club for private citizens and dog-owners that, I believe, he founded.

Grime owns and runs his own small company, from which, I assume, he draws a salary.

[G-Unit]

Why are there no professional accreditations displayed on his website?

Is there a professional association for what he does?

[Alfie]

Is there a professional association for what he does?

You'd think there should be wouldn't you, or is it one of those fields where anyone can set up a business claiming to be a VRD handler if they have a dog and an interest in finding dead things?

[Robittybob1]

You'd think there should be wouldn't you, or is it one of those fields where anyone can set up a business claiming to be a VRD handler if they have a dog and an interest in finding dead things?

It is your prior reputation that will count for everything.