Author Topic: Why were the creche records such a mess?  (Read 6196 times)

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Offline Robittybob1

Why were the creche records such a mess?
« on: December 30, 2016, 07:38:05 AM »
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/CRECHE_ANOMALIES.htm

Sign-in/check-in Warner/Creche lists
The McCann case: anomalies in the case file
Since a small part of the case file - the DVD version was made accessible to the public, a great deal of ink has flowed. We note that it is necessary to be cautious as to its contents. In fact, it is only 17% of the complete case file and certain details are only of interest in relation to the complete file and not taken out of their context.

You probably know that our team, at the association, is comprised mainly of professionals from the field of police work. As such, we have analysed the case file and from the first pages, we have identified a few anomalies. Thus, the registers from the Kids Club appeared to be incomplete. Certain gaps have not been explained.

Thus we note that on May 1st 2007, Madeleine McCann's name is on the Kids Club register. She arrived at 9.30am, dropped off by Gerry. According to the register, Gerry spent the morning playing tennis. He went back to fetch Madeleine at 12.20pm. Where things seem stranger to us is in the entries for the afternoon. Gerry drops Madeleine off at the Kids Club at 2.30pm and he spends his afternoon, again according to the register, playing tennis and at the swimming pool. Oddly, no one went back to fetch Madeleine in the evening! No signature for the evening of May 1st 2007. Why? Why did no one sign the register that evening?

Various explanations are possible.

It could be imagined that the parents arrived late to pick up Madeleine and that they didn't take the time to sign the register. In that case, why isn't that made clear in the case file? Why is there no mention of this possible lateness? And above all, why were they late? Right in the middle of an investigation into the mysterious disappearance of a little four year-old girl, these details are important. But the anomalies continue the following day.

According to the register for May 2nd 2007, the day before Madeleine's disappearance, Kate dropped Maddie off at the Kids Club at 9.20am. Madeleine was picked up at 12.30pm but it's not Kate or Gerry's signature on the register. Someone else has signed the register in the space for parents. The signature of Cat nanny, in other words, CATRIONA BAKER is found there.

Here too, you could imagine various explanations. The parents arrived late (once again?) and in a hurry (why?), they didn't sign the register. You could think that they forgot, for the second time, to sign the register. You could imagine that Catriona had finished her shift and as the parents had not yet come to fetch Maddie, Catriona signed the register then took Madeleine to her parents. You could imagine lots of things. But no explanation is provided in the case file. Catriona didn't mention it in her interview, the parents neither. But this kind of detail raises questions that need to be resolved. Too many unanswered questions, too many whys, too many gaps, not enough explanation.

These explanations could go in both directions. Thus, the investigators must wonder if Maddie didn't disappear sooner than May 3rd? If she was indeed present present at the Kids Club on the afternoon of May 1st? Why didn't anyone sign the register? Was she actually present at the Kids Club on the morning of May 2nd? Why did Catriona sign in the space for parents? Why does Kate's signature on the register for May 2nd seem different from Kate's other signatures? Where were the parents if someone else signed for them?

Certainly, these anomalies may only be trivial details, but these details could equally be significant, even fundamental to the investigation. Don't forget we are talking about the disappearance of a little four year-old girl. We cannot allow ourselves to leave these questions unanswered.

These anomalies, which are the first of a long series, were communicate to whom they may concern. And it is in referring to the article on SOS Madeleine of November 19th, we discover that a hand-writing report would be necessary. This confirms our suspicions and implicitly confirms certain rumours mentioning forged pieces of writing, forged signatures....manipulated documents...signatures added several days after the date indicated...etc.

If this report, that SOS Madeleine speaks of, confirms our our suspicions (and the rumours) these details which we have officially revealed, are then clearly less "trivial" !!!!
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Offline Robittybob1

Re: Why were the creche records such a mess?
« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2016, 05:26:53 AM »
Are the photos of the creche records on page http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/CRECHE.htm all we've got to work with?
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Offline Robittybob1

Re: Why were the creche records such a mess?
« Reply #2 on: December 31, 2016, 06:28:04 AM »
What an amazing study this person has done.  http://genreith.de/MMcC/doku.php?id=oc_child_care
There is a list of the discrepancies and it will be a mission to understand the possible reasoning behind them.
"1. Despite Cat’s claims, why was there no ID bracelets photographed on any child before the 3rd?
2. Despite Cat’s claims, why was AM & PM on one sheet instead of two seperate ones?
3. Charlotte Pennington is missing from the list of crèche staff given to the PJ by Donna Hall of Mark Warner on the 4th.
4. Stacey Portz claimed that Gerry signed the twins in PM on the 3rd, but the crèche sheet says K McCann did.
5. Stacey Portz claimed that Kate collected the twins AM on the 3rd, but Fiona said Gerry did.
6. Robert Naylor’s signatories are erratic and noticeably different every day.
7. Robert Naylor enters the wrong room number every day.
8. Russell O’Brien enters Emma instead of Ella for his daughter on the 1st.
9. Russell O’Brien enters the wrong room number 5B, on the 30th.
10. Russell O’Brien enters 5B again and changes it to 5D, twice on the 2nd.
11. Russell O’Brien enters R O’Brien, instead of his daughter’s name PM on the 30th.
12. On enlarging the McCann & Naylor signatures, there are several identical writing styles starting from the 29th.
13. Catriona Baker for some reason starts entering ‘Cat nanny’ on the crèche sheets from the 1st.
14. Madeleine is signed in at 15.15 and out again at 15.30 by K McCann on the 30th.
15. Kate’s signatures in the Jellyfish on the same day have straight 2’s AM & curly 2’s PM, suggesting two different people.
16. Kate enters KM Healey instead of K McCann, for the first and only time on the 2nd.
17. Kate does not attend the Lobsters group at all on the 1st.
18. PJ final report does not mention Shinead Vine, the twins carer almost every day, only Stacey Portz.
19. Catriona Baker makes a retraction from an earlier statement concerning Madeleine offering more attention to boys.
20. That particular Catriona Baker statement has been withheld by the PJ.
21. No member of staff can remember seeing Madeleine on the 28th, arrival day.
22. Catriona Baker claims the first time she met the McCann’s was on the 29th.
23. Yet Catriona Baker claimed she had Madeleine’s ID bracelet with allergy information ready, for when she first arrived.
24. PJ withholds twins crèche sheet, for AM on the 29th.
25. PJ withholds twins crèche sheet, for AM on the 3rd."
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Offline Robittybob1

Re: Why were the creche records such a mess?
« Reply #3 on: January 01, 2017, 12:57:26 AM »
 Despite Cat’s claims, why was there no ID bracelets photographed on any child before the 3rd?
Catriona Baker rogatory mentions "They brought the children and as it was their first day of holidays the normal procedure was that they were allocated a childcare worker. I had previously written the children's bracelets which included their name, allergies and relevant information. "
I could see a situation which results that they only put these bracelets on the kids that have the allergy and relevant information written on them.  So if there are no information they wouldn't apply the bracelets.

Was this OC policy?
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Offline Robittybob1

Re: Why were the creche records such a mess?
« Reply #4 on: January 01, 2017, 01:03:17 AM »
Objection 2. "Despite Cat’s claims, why was AM & PM on one sheet instead of two separate ones?"
Catriona Baker. "Mark Warner has a standard procedure, the signature on a page when a parent leaves or checks-in a child. There is a separate page for the morning and one for the afternoon. The page contains the name of the child, the hour of sign-in and the hour of pick-up for the afternoon. Only the parents have authority to take the children, except when there is some other agreement."

Well I think this policy was followed on most occasions but there were times both the morning and afternoon  pick ups were on the same sheet.
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Offline Robittybob1

Re: Why were the creche records such a mess?
« Reply #5 on: January 01, 2017, 01:22:06 AM »
Objection 3. "Charlotte Pennington is missing from the list of crèche staff given to the PJ by Donna Hall of Mark Warner on the 4th". Hall is supposed to be Hill - as in Donna Hill John Hill's wife.
OK she is missing on the list but her absence is further explained "--- The latest arrivals in Portugal were Sarah W. and Charlotte Pennington who arrived last Saturday, April 28th 2007. --- The informant, responsible for coordination, distributed the children between the various girls, taking care that each child was unknown to their carer."

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Offline Robittybob1

Re: Why were the creche records such a mess?
« Reply #6 on: January 01, 2017, 01:25:36 AM »
Objection 4. "Stacey Portz claimed that Gerry signed the twins in PM on the 3rd, but the crèche sheet says K McCann did".

Well this one needs to be cross referenced against Gerry's statement.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/CRECHE/Processo-pdf01-pages-107-111[105-109]/processopdf01page107-CrecheRecords3.jpg
It looks like the name and location is also filled in by Kate Mccann.  Stacey obviously is in error here based on the record.
Based on Gerry's 10th May statement "----- That they stayed in the play area for approximately an hour until 14H30/14H35. After that they left the twins next to the creche at the TAPAS, they signed the register and the three (deponent, KATE and MADELEINE) made their way to the creche at the main reception, where they arrived at 14H50 and delivered MADELEINE, not being able to say precisely who signed the register."  They went together so Stacey may have thought Gerry signed the sheet.  Looking at the time. 14.50 in Gerry's statement and the same time 14.50 on the register.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2017, 02:57:48 AM by Robittybob1 »
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Offline Robittybob1

Re: Why were the creche records such a mess?
« Reply #7 on: January 01, 2017, 03:12:15 AM »
Objection 5. "Stacey Portz claimed that Kate collected the twins AM on the 3rd, but Fiona said Gerry did".
Well Kate signs out Madeleine on the third so unless they did it together it would seem most likely be Gerry picking up the twins. 
The AM form for the Jellyfish group was not presented in the file.

This does not marry well with Gerry's 10th May statement "----- The tennis class finished at llH15, he stayed in the pool area talking with his wife and other persons, whom he does not remember. At 12H00, he combined with KATE, as he recalls it, that she would make lunch and he would collect MADELEINE. He thinks that it was KATE who took the twins home. Since it was he who went to collect MADELEINE, he is sure he used the short-cut."
So he doesn't say who picked them up at the creche. 
Well Kate signs out Madeleine AM on the third so Gerry saying he picked up Madeleine can't be correct.

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Offline Robittybob1

Re: Why were the creche records such a mess?
« Reply #8 on: January 01, 2017, 04:01:50 AM »
Objection 6. "Robert Naylor’s signatories are erratic and noticeably different every day".
Objection 7. "Robert Naylor enters the wrong room number every day".
Objection 12. "On enlarging the McCann & Naylor signatures, there are several identical writing styles starting from the 29th".
Robert Naylor what is known about him?  No statement in the file.
Other comments on the net.
"the Naylor child was called Elizabeth so I have no idea why her father's name was given rather than hers"   
"26/04-05/05 G4N Naylor (2) owner booking but in the creche records it states his room/apartment No as B1"
"From the tweets i'm guessing someones implying that the Naylors daughter had a friend called Madeleine...& that Gerry used to kindly offer to take to the creche....& sign them both in??"

Well that has left me stumped and it hasn't been discussed here before, has it?

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Offline Robittybob1

Re: Why were the creche records such a mess?
« Reply #9 on: January 01, 2017, 04:26:32 AM »
Objection 8. "Russell O’Brien enters Emma instead of Ella for his daughter on the 1st".
Objection 9. "Russell O’Brien enters the wrong room number 5B, on the 30th".
Objection 10. "Russell O’Brien enters 5B again and changes it to 5D, twice on the 2nd".
Objection 11. "Russell O’Brien enters R O’Brien, instead of his daughter’s name PM on the 30th".
I just put these down to mistakes.
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Offline Robittybob1

Re: Why were the creche records such a mess?
« Reply #10 on: January 01, 2017, 04:39:15 AM »
Objection 13. "Catriona Baker for some reason starts entering ‘Cat nanny’ on the crèche sheets from the 1st".
‘Cat nanny’ appears more than once, so I suppose if a parent picked up a kid without signing she filled it in as ‘Cat nanny’.

Objection 19. "Catriona Baker makes a retraction from an earlier statement concerning Madeleine offering more attention to boys".   This is confirmed but not explained.

Objection 20. "That particular Catriona Baker statement has been withheld by the PJ."  True.

Objection 22. "Catriona Baker claims the first time she met the McCann’s was on the 29th".  I can't prove otherwise.

Objection 23. "Yet Catriona Baker claimed she had Madeleine’s ID bracelet with allergy information ready, for when she first arrived".  So these bracelets are made up from the Guest Booking List, I presume.

« Last Edit: January 01, 2017, 04:41:38 AM by Robittybob1 »
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Offline Robittybob1

Re: Why were the creche records such a mess?
« Reply #11 on: January 01, 2017, 05:35:31 AM »
Objections:
14. "Madeleine is signed in at 15.15 and out again at 15.30 by K McCann on the 30th."
There were 5 children in the group that afternoon and only Kate enters a time an apparent incorrect time, probably should have been 5:30 not 15.30.

15. "Kate’s signatures in the Jellyfish on the same day have straight 2’s AM & curly 2’s PM, suggesting two different people." I presume same day refers to the 30th.  Jellyfish. The end of day signatures are hard to read.

16. "Kate enters KM Healey instead of K McCann, for the first and only time on the 2nd".  Maybe this was an option that was available to Kate.

17. "Kate does not attend the Lobsters group at all on the 1st".  Well there is no final sign out for Madeleine McCann for that day, so who knows if that is true.  The other 3 initials look a bit like G McCann but it is too blurred to be sure.
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Offline Robittybob1

Re: Why were the creche records such a mess?
« Reply #12 on: January 01, 2017, 05:48:21 AM »
Objections:
24. "PJ withholds twins crèche sheet, for AM on the 29th."
25. "PJ withholds twins crèche sheet, for AM on the 3rd."

Well we can't do say anything about that.

18. "PJ final report does not mention Shinead Vine, the twins carer almost every day, only Stacey Portz".
Shinead Vine does make a statement though.
The only really contentious statement made by Shinead  was this :". Further adds that Madeleine McCann's parents, may have used the free service at dinner time, or may have also requested the presence of a baby sitter (paid service), and does not know the reason for why they did not do this;"

Did the McCanns ask for a paid baby sitting service?  That would put another spin on this case if they did.
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Offline Robittybob1

Re: Why were the creche records such a mess?
« Reply #13 on: January 01, 2017, 05:52:34 AM »
Objection 6. "Robert Naylor’s signatories are erratic and noticeably different every day".
Objection 7. "Robert Naylor enters the wrong room number every day".
Objection 12. "On enlarging the McCann & Naylor signatures, there are several identical writing styles starting from the 29th".
Robert Naylor what is known about him?  No statement in the file.
Other comments on the net.
"the Naylor child was called Elizabeth so I have no idea why her father's name was given rather than hers"   
"26/04-05/05 G4N Naylor (2) owner booking but in the creche records it states his room/apartment No as B1"
"From the tweets i'm guessing someones implying that the Naylors daughter had a friend called Madeleine...& that Gerry used to kindly offer to take to the creche....& sign them both in??"

Well that has left me stumped and it hasn't been discussed here before, has it?

I ended up thinking Gerry and Robert Naylor may have similar handwriting that's all.   OK why he puts in odd room numbers etc could just be for privacy.
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Offline Robittybob1

Re: Why were the creche records such a mess?
« Reply #14 on: January 01, 2017, 06:30:26 AM »
In the end I think the records are a bit untidy but there is no real evidence of fraud.  lk,kz <<< cat walking over the keyboard!
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