Any proof a couple entered McCanns apartment night before Madeleine disappeared?

[Robittybob1]

Mystery couple seen going into McCanns’ flat on night before sobbing Madeleine disappeared

SCOTLAND YARD detectives are trying to find a middle-aged couple said to have entered Madeleine McCann’s holiday apartment to comfort her because she was crying, we can reveal today.

I is believed they entered the bedroom on May 2, 2007, the evening before Madeleine disappeared from the Ocean Club at Praia da Luz on Portugal’s Algarve.

The tip-off was given by two key witnesses who were reinterviewed as part of the Yard’s two-year, £4.5million  investigation.

It is already known that Pamela Fenn, who lived directly above apartment 5a, heard a child, believed to be Madeleine, crying for about an hour on the evening of May 2.

She was so concerned she rang a friend in the village to ask what to do and considered ringing Portugal’s Policia Judiciaria.

At the time, Madeleine’s mother Kate and father Gerry were dining with friends at a tapas bar some 50 yards from the apartment.

A source said: “Police were astonished when this new information came to light. Officers spoke to other key witnesses to discover more about the middle-aged couple.

“Apparently they were concerned about the crying and went to see if they could comfort the girl.”

Pamela Fenn has since died, so police have been speaking to other people who were staying in the same apartments.

Our revelation comes as Scotland Yard detectives say there are potentially 20 suspects they want to speak to. Retiring Detective Chief Superintendent Hamish Campbell, head of the Yard’s Homicide and Serious Crime Command, urged Portuguese authorities to investigate the new leads.

He said: “There are a lot of people of interest. There are people who could be properly explored further, if only to be eliminated.”

Scotland Yard officers have been interviewing witnesses here for months, although the public prosecutor in Portugal has decided against reopening the investigation.

Despite claims of a “Mexican stand off” between Portuguese police and Yard officers, the Sunday Express understands there is in fact very good co-operation between both squads.

Pedro de Carmo, deputy national leader of the PJ, said yesterday: “We still co-operate with their team. There are good communications.”

Portuguese officers are very impressed with the diligence of the Met investigation and have been impressed with their interviews with witnesses in Britain.

We can confirm that a couple staying in the same block as apartment 5a were interviewed last February.

They were in their apartment on the night Madeleine vanished. Afterwards they wrote an account of what they saw but were never formally interviewed by Portuguese detectives.

They had been at a restaurant earlier in the evening and left at about 9pm.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/400796/Mystery-couple-seen-going-into-McCanns-flat-on-night-before-sobbing-Madeleine-disappeared



There doesn't seem to be any files available in the released files that confirm this.

16

[sadie]

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/400796/Mystery-couple-seen-going-into-McCanns-flat-on-night-before-sobbing-Madeleine-disappeared

There doesn't seem to be any files available in the released files that confirm this.

If it happened and there is much doubt about that, would people passing by even hear any crying from Madeleines bedroom in 5A?

No-one goes near Madeleines bedroom
Madeleines bedroom is at the front of the apartment, the window was closed and shutters down ... and no-one at all passes by that 

The distance to the back is via the hall / siiting room, then patio, then small garden on to the pathway/alleyway and it is all raised more or less a floor above ground level.   The sound had to carry around the corner, then the bedroom door was very near closed.  Same with the patio doors.   The sound would be very much reduced by that stage.   Then it had cross the patio and drop down over the garden to the alleyway / Pathway.

More or less the same situation with anyone walking up the street at the side.

I have been thinking back to when I lived next door to young children.  I feel sure they must have cried at times but in the winter with windows closed, I never heard them.


Did someone hear crying or is it another myth?  Disinformation dropped out in  an effort to try and make the Mccanns look bad

[Robittybob1]

If it happened and there is much doubt about that, would people passing by even hear any crying from Madeleines bedroom in 5A?

No-one goes near Madeleines bedroom
Madeleines bedroom is at the front of the apartment, the window was closed and shutters down ... and no-one at all passes by that 

The distance to the back is via the hall / siiting room, then patio, then small garden on to the pathway/alleyway and it is all raised more or less a floor above ground level.   The sound had to carry around the corner, then the bedroom door was very near closed.  Same with the patio doors.   The sound would be very much reduced by that stage.   Then it had cross the patio and drop down over the garden to the alleyway / Pathway.

More or less the same situation with anyone walking up the street at the side.

I have been thinking back to when I lived next door to young children.  I feel sure they must have cried at times but in the winter with windows closed, I never heard them.


Did someone hear crying or is it another myth?  Disinformation dropped out in  an effort to try and make the Mccanns look bad

Some of the Tapas 9 confirm they did what was called auditory checks, so that does imply someone thought it was possible for people to hear crying kids from the exterior.  Mrs Fenn heard crying from the floor above and Madeleine was said by her parents to have a particularly loud cry.
It became known that the McCanns were leaving their kids in a vulnerable apartment (Bridget writes about it in her article).  If she knew it who else knew about it?

[slartibartfast]

If it happened and there is much doubt about that, would people passing by even hear any crying from Madeleines bedroom in 5A?

No-one goes near Madeleines bedroom
Madeleines bedroom is at the front of the apartment, the window was closed and shutters down ... and no-one at all passes by that 

The distance to the back is via the hall / siiting room, then patio, then small garden on to the pathway/alleyway and it is all raised more or less a floor above ground level.   The sound had to carry around the corner, then the bedroom door was very near closed.  Same with the patio doors.   The sound would be very much reduced by that stage.   Then it had cross the patio and drop down over the garden to the alleyway / Pathway.

More or less the same situation with anyone walking up the street at the side.

I have been thinking back to when I lived next door to young children.  I feel sure they must have cried at times but in the winter with windows closed, I never heard them.


Did someone hear crying or is it another myth?  Disinformation dropped out in  an effort to try and make the Mccanns look bad

So you think people wouldn't have heard Maddy?

[Robittybob1]

So you think people wouldn't have heard Maddy?

There would be some hearing impaired about.

[slartibartfast]

There would be some hearing impaired about.

Sadie appeared to imply no one would.

[misty]

Some of the Tapas 9 confirm they did what was called auditory checks, so that does imply someone thought it was possible for people to hear crying kids from the exterior.  Mrs Fenn heard crying from the floor above and Madeleine was said by her parents to have a particularly loud cry.
It became known that the McCanns were leaving their kids in a vulnerable apartment (Bridget writes about it in her article).  If she knew it who else knew about it?

Unless Madeleine was out on the patio crying, I doubt anyone who just happened to be passing would even know which apartment any crying was emanating from or how long it had been going on. Then you have the 2 residents who apparently witnessed this unknown couple entering & comforting a child (which means that they must have conversed at some stage or all four heard the crying) yet not one of them mentioned anything to the police about it for years, preferring to let Luz's reputation remain tarnished.

[faithlilly]

Unless Madeleine was out on the patio crying, I doubt anyone who just happened to be passing would even know which apartment any crying was emanating from or how long it had been going on. Then you have the 2 residents who apparently witnessed this unknown couple entering & comforting a child (which means that they must have conversed at some stage or all four heard the crying) yet not one of them mentioned anything to the police about it for years, preferring to let Luz's reputation remain tarnished.

Wasn't that simply a newspaper article?

[ShiningInLuz]

Wasn't that simply a newspaper article?

Whether you are right or wrong, this tale struck me as something that had been cobbled together out of very little.

[misty]

Wasn't that simply a newspaper article?

It may well have been a fabricated story but from where did it originate?

[sadie]

Some of the Tapas 9 confirm they did what was called auditory checks, so that does imply someone thought it was possible for people to hear crying kids from the exterior.  Mrs Fenn heard crying from the floor above and Madeleine was said by her parents to have a particularly loud cry.
It became known that the McCanns were leaving their kids in a vulnerable apartment (Bridget writes about it in her article).  If she knew it who else knew about it?

Yes, but they were putting their ear against the window of the childrens bedroom.

The Mccann apartment was at the dead end of the passageway and nobody would walk past Madeleines window, unless they were up to no good.   Nobody would walk past the hallway approx half way along that walkway that everyone had to use.  Everybodies apartment, apart from the Mccanns, radiated off that hallway ... even the upstairs apartments

[Robittybob1]

Yes, but they were putting their ear against the window of the childrens bedroom.

The Mccann apartment was at the dead end of the passageway and nobody would walk past Madeleines window, unless they were up to no good.   Nobody would walk past the hallway approx half way along that walkway that everyone had to use.  Everybody's apartment, apart from the Mccanns, radiated off that hallway ... even the upstairs apartments

That's right it would have to be a couple of concerned local citizens who did this and no doubt they were IMO.
"Everybody's apartment, apart from the Mccanns, radiated off that hallway ... even the upstairs apartments" I doubt if that is right. AFAIK the path led to the gardens and they were only for the ground floor apartments, and general access to the carpark.

[Robittybob1]

Unless Madeleine was out on the patio crying, I doubt anyone who just happened to be passing would even know which apartment any crying was emanating from or how long it had been going on. Then you have the 2 residents who apparently witnessed this unknown couple entering & comforting a child (which means that they must have conversed at some stage or all four heard the crying) yet not one of them mentioned anything to the police about it for years, preferring to let Luz's reputation remain tarnished.

Was that right? "yet not one of them mentioned anything to the police about it for years"  I didn't check that so no wonder there isn't a statement about it. I just hope SY followed this lead up.

[sadie]

That's right it would have to be a couple of concerned local citizens who did this and no doubt they were IMO.
"Everybody's apartment, apart from the Mccanns, radiated off that hallway ... even the upstairs apartments" I doubt if that is right. AFAIK the path led to the gardens and they were only for the ground floor apartments, and general access to the carpark.

You are talking about a different pathway Rob.  You are talking about the alleyway to the south of block 5.  That led to the individual gardens and rear of the ground floor apartments ... but the pathway that I was talking about was on the other side of the block.

The pathway I was talking about is the one up close to the front of block 5 buiilding (i.e. to the NORTH of the building, within block 5 car park) .  This pathway started at the middle of block 5 and was walled.  Roughly half way along there was a fairly spacious, well lit hallway with the stairs to other floors coming from it ... along with many of the front doors to the ground floor flats. 

Nobody had reason to walk further along this pathway other than the Mccanns.  The pathway stopped at the front door to 5A.  The front door not only was recessed and VERY dark but also quite isolated.  No-one could see it from their walk across the car park or from their walk along the walled pathway.

[Robittybob1]

You are talking about a different pathway Rob.  You are talking about the alleyway to the south of block 5.  That led to the individual gardens and rear of the ground floor apartments ... but the pathway that I was talking about was on the other side of the block.

The pathway I was talking about is the one up close to the front of block 5 buiilding (i.e. to the NORTH of the building, within block 5 car park) .  This pathway started at the middle of block 5 and was walled.  Roughly half way along there was a fairly spacious, well lit hallway with the stairs to other floors coming from it ... along with many of the front doors to the ground floor flats. 

Nobody had reason to walk further along this pathway other than the Mccanns.  The pathway stopped at the front door to 5A.  The front door not only was recessed and VERY dark but also quite isolated.  No-one could see it from their walk across the car park or from their walk along the walled pathway.

OK and you have walked along this pathway Sadie?