Any proof a couple entered McCanns apartment night before Madeleine disappeared?

[sadie]

OK and you have walked along this pathway Sadie?

Yep, I walked it but I didn't touch the front door, the window or the shutters.  I was very surprised to see how recessed the front door was.

Neither did I enter into the hallway half way along, but I looked.


Unfortunately when I first went, I hadn't thought about the possible likelyhood of the balcony opposite, across the road in block 6, being used as a look out spot by the possible 'director of operations' / getaway driver.  Or I might have been cheeky enough to go up there and check exactly what could been seen from the balconies on the first and second floor.   G.E. fills in the spots tho, but there is nothing better than trying it yourself.

I do know from GE that there was a direct line of vision from the balconies to someone standing in front of 5A, or standing amongst the trees at the eastern end of the block 5 car park.  It would have been straight forward to signal from a watcher on block 6 balcony to a man in front of 5A.  A pencil torch or even a cigareltte lighter flicking on, would do the job.

[John]

Mystery couple seen going into McCanns’ flat on night before sobbing Madeleine disappeared

SCOTLAND YARD detectives are trying to find a middle-aged couple said to have entered Madeleine McCann’s holiday apartment to comfort her because she was crying, we can reveal today.

I is believed they entered the bedroom on May 2, 2007, the evening before Madeleine disappeared from the Ocean Club at Praia da Luz on Portugal’s Algarve.

The tip-off was given by two key witnesses who were reinterviewed as part of the Yard’s two-year, £4.5million  investigation.

It is already known that Pamela Fenn, who lived directly above apartment 5a, heard a child, believed to be Madeleine, crying for about an hour on the evening of May 2.

She was so concerned she rang a friend in the village to ask what to do and considered ringing Portugal’s Policia Judiciaria.

At the time, Madeleine’s mother Kate and father Gerry were dining with friends at a tapas bar some 50 yards from the apartment.

A source said: “Police were astonished when this new information came to light. Officers spoke to other key witnesses to discover more about the middle-aged couple.

“Apparently they were concerned about the crying and went to see if they could comfort the girl.”

Pamela Fenn has since died, so police have been speaking to other people who were staying in the same apartments.

Our revelation comes as Scotland Yard detectives say there are potentially 20 suspects they want to speak to. Retiring Detective Chief Superintendent Hamish Campbell, head of the Yard’s Homicide and Serious Crime Command, urged Portuguese authorities to investigate the new leads.

He said: “There are a lot of people of interest. There are people who could be properly explored further, if only to be eliminated.”

Scotland Yard officers have been interviewing witnesses here for months, although the public prosecutor in Portugal has decided against reopening the investigation.

Despite claims of a “Mexican stand off” between Portuguese police and Yard officers, the Sunday Express understands there is in fact very good co-operation between both squads.

Pedro de Carmo, deputy national leader of the PJ, said yesterday: “We still co-operate with their team. There are good communications.”

Portuguese officers are very impressed with the diligence of the Met investigation and have been impressed with their interviews with witnesses in Britain.

We can confirm that a couple staying in the same block as apartment 5a were interviewed last February.

They were in their apartment on the night Madeleine vanished. Afterwards they wrote an account of what they saw but were never formally interviewed by Portuguese detectives.

They had been at a restaurant earlier in the evening and left at about 9pm.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/400796/Mystery-couple-seen-going-into-McCanns-flat-on-night-before-sobbing-Madeleine-disappeared



There doesn't seem to be any files available in the released files that confirm this.

I can understand why some people are extremely uncomfortabke about this story because if true is pretty damning stuff given Mrs Fenn's recollection of the extended crying on the Tuesday night as well. 

[Robittybob1]

I saw an estimate of the percentage of the file released to the general public - 18%.  No wonder we are struggling to piece the parts together.

[jassi]

If that figure is anywhere near the truth, then the PJ were far more active than certain people give them credit for.

[John]

I saw an estimate of the percentage of the file released to the general public - 18%.  No wonder we are struggling to piece the parts together.

Impossible Rob.  We know what files there were since their references are recorded in the released CD.  Very few are missing.

[ShiningInLuz]

Impossible Rob.  We know what files there were since their references are recorded in the released CD.  Very few are missing.

Seconded.

 

[Robittybob1]

Impossible Rob.  We know what files there were since their references are recorded in the released CD.  Very few are missing.

Well it surprised me to "OFFICIAL INQUIRY FILES and DOCUMENTS
ANOMALIES IN THE CASE FILE : THE CRECHE
Sitemap
This information belongs to the Ministério Público in Portimão, Portugal.
It was released to the public on 4 August 2008 in accordance with Portuguese Law
TRANSLATED FROM FRENCH SITE  BY ANNAESSE
Please note: This page is not part of the official police files. It is an analysis of Anomalies in the Creche files, that can be seen here LINK
Sign-in/check-in Warner/Creche lists
The McCann case: anomalies in the case file
Since a small part of the case file - the DVD version was made accessible to the public, a great deal of ink has flowed. We note that it is necessary to be cautious as to its contents. In fact, it is only 17% of the complete case file and certain details are only of interest in relation to the complete file and not taken out of their context."

So I have no idea how they worked out that percentage.

[ShiningInLuz]

Well it surprised me to "OFFICIAL INQUIRY FILES and DOCUMENTS
ANOMALIES IN THE CASE FILE : THE CRECHE
Sitemap
This information belongs to the Ministério Público in Portimão, Portugal.
It was released to the public on 4 August 2008 in accordance with Portuguese Law
TRANSLATED FROM FRENCH SITE  BY ANNAESSE
Please note: This page is not part of the official police files. It is an analysis of Anomalies in the Creche files, that can be seen here LINK
Sign-in/check-in Warner/Creche lists
The McCann case: anomalies in the case file
Since a small part of the case file - the DVD version was made accessible to the public, a great deal of ink has flowed. We note that it is necessary to be cautious as to its contents. In fact, it is only 17% of the complete case file and certain details are only of interest in relation to the complete file and not taken out of their context."

So I have no idea how they worked out that percentage.

Either provide a cite or a link for this or watch it disappear.

[misty]

Here's the link, Shining. It's amazing the amount of non-official material uploaded using the official header.


http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/CRECHE_ANOMALIES.htm

[ShiningInLuz]

Here's the link, Shining. It's amazing the amount of non-official material uploaded using the official header.


http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/CRECHE_ANOMALIES.htm

Than you for the link.

Having read this, my bet is that the material will still fall foul of moderation.

Here's the bit I object to "You probably know that our team, at the association, is comprised mainly of professionals from the field of police work."

Our team - unidentified.

The association - unidentified.

Professionals from the police - unidentified.

This looks like a cut and paste from CMoMM.  Do you know if it is?

[misty]

Than you for the link.

Having read this, my bet is that the material will still fall foul of moderation.

Here's the bit I object to "You probably know that our team, at the association, is comprised mainly of professionals from the field of police work."

Our team - unidentified.

The association - unidentified.

Professionals from the police - unidentified.

This looks like a cut and paste from CMoMM.  Do you know if it is?

Here's a link to the same transcript with some familiar names ( I realise we're not supposed to link to other forums but you can read it & then delete).
 http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?69317-Madeleine-McCann-General-Discussion-Thread-No-25/page36

[Robittybob1]

Than you for the link.

Having read this, my bet is that the material will still fall foul of moderation.

Here's the bit I object to "You probably know that our team, at the association, is comprised mainly of professionals from the field of police work."

Our team - unidentified.

The association - unidentified.

Professionals from the police - unidentified.

This looks like a cut and paste from CMoMM.  Do you know if it is?

I only quoted it because it had an incredible low estimate of percentage of the file released.

[ShiningInLuz]

Here's a link to the same transcript with some familiar names ( I realise we're not supposed to link to other forums but you can read it & then delete).
 http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?69317-Madeleine-McCann-General-Discussion-Thread-No-25/page36

This leads us back up the food chain a bit.  The material quoted is lifted from Joana Morais no later than 22 Nov 2008, when it was posted on Websleuths.

But unless I'm mistaken, Joana has translated or copied a version from Enfants Kdnappés, a Belgian website which is no longer in existence.  That would mean the team, the association, and these mysterious police officers are probably Belgian, unless someone knows better.

I now have another issue.  The PJ Files were released on 4 Aug 2008.  I have no idea when a Portuguese version was first loaded onto the Internet.  But there is, IMO, a very short time to get material translated from Portuguese to any other language, such as English, French or Flemish, and come to any sensible assessment by 22 Nov 2008.  It simply isn't possible.

I don't know where 17% got plucked from.  We know that certain sections were not released, as documented by Pamalam.  But I very much doubt there is anything like 17% censored, let alone 83%.

Thanks for the info Misty.

[misty]

This leads us back up the food chain a bit.  The material quoted is lifted from Joana Morais no later than 22 Nov 2008, when it was posted on Websleuths.

But unless I'm mistaken, Joana has translated or copied a version from Enfants Kdnappés, a Belgian website which is no longer in existence.  That would mean the team, the association, and these mysterious police officers are probably Belgian, unless someone knows better.

I now have another issue.  The PJ Files were released on 4 Aug 2008.  I have no idea when a Portuguese version was first loaded onto the Internet.  But there is, IMO, a very short time to get material translated from Portuguese to any other language, such as English, French or Flemish, and come to any sensible assessment by 22 Nov 2008.  It simply isn't possible.

I don't know where 17% got plucked from.  We know that certain sections were not released, as documented by Pamalam.  But I very much doubt there is anything like 17% censored, let alone 83%.

Thanks for the info Misty.

Here's a link to the original article on Enfants Kidnappes (I think it's the right one) but there is no reference to the percentage of files uploaded onto the internet.
https://web.archive.org/web/20081219220642/http://www.kidnapping.be/maddie/maddie.html

SOS Madeleine was Levy. I have several times asked the question - who paid to get the files translated so quickly & for what purpose? I know what I think......
I do think we have less than 20% of the files, though. Didn't SY make reference to some 80000 pages?

[sadie]

Than you for the link.

Having read this, my bet is that the material will still fall foul of moderation.

Here's the bit I object to "You probably know that our team, at the association, is comprised mainly of professionals from the field of police work."

Our team - unidentified.

The association - unidentified.

Professionals from the police - unidentified.

This looks like a cut and paste from CMoMM.  Do you know if it is?

What I particulrly notice is that

The couple who are supposed to have heard crying and gone in to 5A - unidentified

The couple who it seems talked to then - unidentified

Did Mrs Fenn comment about crying that night - No

.... So it cant have been much, it cant have been loud. 
How come a couple walking past heard it if Mrs Fenn didn't?   ....and it was loud enough to cause concern enough to go into the apartment .... That'a a big thing to do, going into a strangers home at night..   Most people wouldn't


Did it really happen that a couple went in there .... or is it another myth?