MADELEINE'S DNA - definitive study.

[barrier]

A body or a person is what I was thinking of.

There in lies the crux of the matter imo.

[Carana]

It's a bit late for that I think. Unless that hairbrush held by Krugel for ten years finds it's way to the authorities. The hairbrush given to the authorities in 2007 had no hair in it.

No hair was recovered from the pillow-case SJM/1 nor the hairbrush SJM/36.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/A_L_PALMER.htm

True, but have you ever discovered what happened to the hairs that somehow disappeared without a trace, somewhere between her bed and the PT forensic lab (INML)?

[G-Unit]

True, but have you ever discovered what happened to the hairs that somehow disappeared without a trace, somewhere between her bed and the PT forensic lab (INML)?

 various hairs from the top of the bed where the missing child was sleeping, they being placed inside a paper envelope in accordance with instructions issued by the Biology Section of the LPC and referenced as trace evidence #3;
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/5A_FORENSIC_4_5_7.htm

4 hair in envelope no. 3 recovered from the top of the bed from which the child disappeared.
Envelope No. 3 - "recovered from the top of the bed from which the child disappeared" 2 hairs with root; 2 hairs only stem.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PORTUGUESE-FORENSIC.htm

[Carana]

various hairs from the top of the bed where the missing child was sleeping, they being placed inside a paper envelope in accordance with instructions issued by the Biology Section of the LPC and referenced as trace evidence #3;
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/5A_FORENSIC_4_5_7.htm

4 hair in envelope no. 3 recovered from the top of the bed from which the child disappeared.
Envelope No. 3 - "recovered from the top of the bed from which the child disappeared" 2 hairs with root; 2 hairs only stem.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PORTUGUESE-FORENSIC.htm

Thanks, I'm aware of that, G-unit.

But what happened to the others?

[G-Unit]

I have no idea, what do you think?

[Carana]

I have no idea, what do you think?

A possible explanation is that they simply marked the bed with "no 3" and then moved around to place no. 4 elsewhere, but ended up only bagging the hairs on the top (i.e., the 4 that eventually arrived). Maybe they meant to differentiate between the location of the bed hairs ("no 3"), by splitting them into e.g, 3.1 and 3.2 but something screwed up.

Some of the ones near the pillow could, of course, be Madeleine's or those belonging to her family... but not necessarily all of them.

I have no idea, either, whether any of the other hairs in the flat (bar one of Gerry's, from memory) were ever identified as belonging to a specific individual. There has been noise about studies trying to extract nDNA from hair with little or no root, but I don't know how far that's got. Identifying a haplotype (mtDNA) means little in this context. About the only thing it can establish, in this context (AFAIK), is that Murat didn't leave one, because none of the identified haplotypes of hair found corresponded to his.

[kizzy]

G.A. regretted, sending the DNA to a UK Lab

[Robittybob1]

G.A. regretted, sending the DNA to a UK Lab

Why was that?

[Carana]

G.A. regretted, sending the DNA to a UK Lab

The forensic sweep of 5a on 4 May was done by the Portuguese police and went to the Portuguese lab.

ETA: We're talking about missing hairs in the original sweep, not the dogs and subsequent sweeps 3 months later.

[Robittybob1]

The forensic sweep of 5a on 4 May was done by the Portuguese police and went to the Portuguese lab.

But what sort of tests were done on these samples?  Was it DNA testing on the hair?

[Carana]

But what sort of tests were done on these samples?  Was it DNA testing on the hair?

There are threads on this, Rob.

At least on the hairs that the PT lab actually received, they tried to do nDNA tests where possible. Otherwise, they did mtNDA tests whcih established haplotypes.

Establishing a haplotype is no doubt useful if a suspect is, e.g., Icelandic in a remote village in the Kalahari.

Otherwise, its usefulness is to exclude potential suspects.

It couldn't identitfy any specific individual.

[Robittybob1]

There are threads on this, Rob.

At least on the hairs that the PT lab actually received, they tried to do nDNA tests where possible. Otherwise, they did mtNDA tests whcih established haplotypes.

Establishing a haplotype is no doubt useful if a suspect is, e.g., Icelandic in a remote village in the Kalahari.

Otherwise, its usefulness is to exclude potential suspects.

It couldn't identitfy any specific individual.

Thanks for that I'll look them up later. 

[Robittybob1]

There are threads on this, Rob.

At least on the hairs that the PT lab actually received, they tried to do nDNA tests where possible. Otherwise, they did mtNDA tests whcih established haplotypes.

Establishing a haplotype is no doubt useful if a suspect is, e.g., Icelandic in a remote village in the Kalahari.

Otherwise, its usefulness is to exclude potential suspects.

It couldn't identitfy any specific individual.

I recall it now thanks http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7824.msg369027#msg369027

[Robittybob1]

The result of sample 3A was "However, all of the confirmed DNA components within this result match the corresponding components in the DNA profile of Madeline McCann. LCN DNA profiling is highly sensitive it is not possible to attribute this DNA profile to a particular body fluid."

Does anyone know how many components were confirmed?

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JOHN_LOWE.htm

The full result is "An incomplete DNA result was obtained from cellular material on the swab 3a. The swab contained very little information and showed low level indications of DNA from more than one person. However, all of the confirmed DNA components within this result match the corresponding components in the DNA profile of Madeline McCann. LCN DNA profiling is highly sensitive it is not possible to attribute this DNA profile to a particular body fluid."

but on this other  site I get a different report "The Forensic Science Service® / Lowe report"  http://themaddiecasefiles.com/the-forensic-science-service-lowe-report-t10.html

Which although say much the same has different wording.

"286A/2007-CRL 3A& B Swabs collected from the floor of the apartment
An incomplete and weak DNA result comprising only some unconfirmed DNA components was obtained from the cellular material present in the dry swab (3A). The attempt to obtain a result from any cellular material that may have been in the same area and present in the wet swab (3B) was unfruitful, given that no profile was obtained. These samples were submitted for LCN tests.

An incomplete DNA result was obtained through LCN from cellular material present in the swab (286A/2007 CRL 3A). The low-level DNA result showed very meagre information indicating more than one person. Departing from the principle that all confirmed DNA components within the scope of this result originated from a single source, then these pointed to corresponding components in the profile of Madeleine McCann; however, if the DNA within the scope of this result originated from more than one person then the result could be explained as being DNA originating from [a mixture of DNA from both] Kate Healy and Gerald McCann, for example. DNA profiles established through LCN are extremely sensitive; it is not possible to attribute this DNA profile to a particular body fluid. nor to determine how or when that DNA was transferred to that area."

I wonder where that report is in the alphabetical listing?  [I found it within the the Lowe report.]

"286A/2007-CRL 3A& B Swabs collected from the floor of the apartment
An incomplete and weak DNA result comprising only some unconfirmed DNA components was obtained from the cellular material present in the dry swab (3A). The attempt to obtain a result from any cellular material that may have been in the same area and present in the wet swab (3B) was unfruitful, given that no profile was obtained. These samples were submitted for LCN tests.

An incomplete DNA result was obtained through LCN from cellular material present in the swab (286A/2007 CRL 3A). The low-level DNA result showed very meagre information indicating more than one person. Departing from the principle that all confirmed DNA components within the scope of this result originated from a single source, then these pointed to corresponding components in the profile of Madeleine McCann; however, if the DNA within the scope of this result originated from more than one person then the result could be explained as being DNA originating from [a mixture of DNA from both] Kate Healy and Gerald McCann, for example. DNA profiles established through LCN are extremely sensitive; it is not possible to attribute this DNA profile to a particular body fluid. nor to determine how or when that DNA was transferred to that area."

These two appear to be word for word the same.

[Carana]

The first appears to be from the email. The longer version from the report.

Re the confirmed alleles on swab 3A: no, I've never found anything in the files. However, in a TV interview GA mentioned 5 in a sample found in the flat (and I don't see any other sample he could have been referring to).
And 5 means nothing - you and I would share that many, possibly more.

GA: There is a recent report and there are two other reports. The first one mentions 15 alleles and here is the main question, it places the focus, they place the focus on that part of the exam from the vehicle, in the second [report] they then focus on the apartment, if on one side 15 alleles were not enough, in the other there were only 5 alleles that matched Madeleine McCann's genetic profile, what could be read there was that there were almost no problems. Because it's easily justifiable. It may not be justifiable with the cadaver odour on the spot where the blood sample was collected, but therefore, inside the house it is easy to justify, it's more difficult with a car that was rented more than twenty days later. So this is where the major confusion lies.
https://joana-morais.blogspot.co.uk/2008/09/little-girl-died-in-that-apartment.html