Are the cadaver alerts evidence

[Robittybob1]

The alerts were never important
What they wanted was real evidence
They didn't find any

But the alerts we do have could gives us a clue where to look for this "real evidence".

[G-Unit]

The alerts were never important
What they wanted was real evidence
They didn't find any

Alerts = intelligence. That's why a search warrant was obtained for the McCann's villa and hire car following the alerts in 5A.

[sadie]

But the alerts we do have could gives us a clue where to look for this "real evidence".

No they dont Rob

Because both keela and Eddie had to be shown the same suspected places
... and for the alerts to mean anything (then only possibly, subject to forensic analysis) it was imperative that Keela DID NOT alert where Eddie did. 

Only then it might have been cadavar odour, because Eddie was reacting to cadervesce and Keela NEVER reacted to same.

If both dogs reacted then it was dessicated blood from a living person. 

Eddies great flaw was that he had previously been trained as a blood dog, then later as a Cadavar dog ... so he reacted to both.  Keelas input was necessary so that they could tell if Eddies reaction was to blood from a living person or to Cadavar odour.

Once a dog (Eddie) had been trained to react to something, he could never be re-trained
.... so Eddie would always react to both cadavar odour and to the dessicated blood from a living person.



The clever bit was using Keela to rule out that it was dried living blood that he was reacting to, meaning that when she didn't react, the likelyhood was that it was cadavar odour that Eddie had reacted to.  Subject to Forensic analysis.



Rob,
The main experts on this forum re the alerts seem to be Ferryman, Davel and Carana, altho several others are very knowledgeable too.  Hope this helps.

[pathfinder73]

< it was imperative that Keela DID NOT alert where Eddie did.>

It's not unusual for a cadaver dog and a blood dog to alert in the same place  i.e. a murder investigation team is working on this case. Eddie's first alert was in the bedroom and Keela did not alert.

Metropolitan Police Service

MPS Publication Scheme Disclosure Log - March 2016

DECISION

I have today decided to disclose the located information to you in full.

1 Detective Sergeant and 3 Detective Constables are dedicated to Op Grange, they are attached to, and under the supervision of, a full Murder Investigation Team, these numbers did not change for the time period you specified.

http://www.met.police.uk/foi/pdfs/disclosure_2016/march_2016/2016010001047.pdf

Eddie's alert at Prout's confirmed to the police he was involved in his wife's disappearance and they eventually produced enough circumstantial evidence to convict him.

[Robittybob1]

No they dont Rob

Because both keela and Eddie had to be shown the same suspected places
... and for the alerts to mean anything (then only possibly, subject to forensic analysis) it was imperative that Keela DID NOT alert where Eddie did. 

Only then it might have been cadavar odour, because Eddie was reacting to cadervesce and Keela NEVER reacted to same.

If both dogs reacted then it was dessicated blood from a living person. 

Eddies great flaw was that he had previously been trained as a blood dog, then later as a Cadavar dog ... so he reacted to both.  Keelas input was necessary so that they could tell if Eddies reaction was to blood from a living person or to Cadavar odour.

Once a dog (Eddie) had been trained to react to something, he could never be re-trained
.... so Eddie would always react to both cadavar odour and to the dessicated blood from a living person.



The clever bit was using Keela to rule out that it was dried living blood that he was reacting to, meaning that when she didn't react, the likelyhood was that it was cadavar odour that Eddie had reacted to.  Subject to Forensic analysis.



Rob,
The main experts on this forum re the alerts seem to be Ferryman, Davel and Carana, altho several others are very knowledgeable too.  Hope this helps.

Just because you repeat this will not make me believe it Sadie.  On these points, about Eddie and Keela, I disagree with you.

[misty]

http://content.met.police.uk/Site/homicideseriouscrime

Homicide and Serious Crime
The Homicide and Serious Crime Command is responsible for the investigation of homicide and other serious crimes in London.



Murder Investigation Teams investigate:

All murder, manslaughter and infanticide offences;
Deaths within the workplace or mass disaster where culpability for the loss of life is likely to be an issue in criminal court
Attempted murder where the evidence of intent is unambiguous or where a risk assessment identifies substantive risk to life
High-risk missing persons where there is a substantive reason to suspect life has been taken or is under threat
Linked series of two or more stranger rapes which are beyond the capability of SCD2 Sapphire Command or other 'critical incidents'
Additionally, the teams provide advice for the MPS and other police forces on 'High Risk' situations.
======================================================================

Not just murder, Pathfinder, as well you know.
What attempts did the PJ make to obtain corroborating forensics from the bedroom where Eddie indicated?

[Robittybob1]

http://content.met.police.uk/Site/homicideseriouscrime

Homicide and Serious Crime
The Homicide and Serious Crime Command is responsible for the investigation of homicide and other serious crimes in London.



Murder Investigation Teams investigate:

All murder, manslaughter and infanticide offences;
Deaths within the workplace or mass disaster where culpability for the loss of life is likely to be an issue in criminal court
Attempted murder where the evidence of intent is unambiguous or where a risk assessment identifies substantive risk to life
High-risk missing persons where there is a substantive reason to suspect life has been taken or is under threat
Linked series of two or more stranger rapes which are beyond the capability of SCD2 Sapphire Command or other 'critical incidents'
Additionally, the teams provide advice for the MPS and other police forces on 'High Risk' situations.
======================================================================

Not just murder, Pathfinder, as well you know.
What attempts did the PJ make to obtain corroborating forensics from the bedroom where Eddie indicated?

There is nothing other than finding a putrefying physical body part that would corroborate cadaver odour.

[pathfinder73]

Not just murder is correct Misty but that's what they think when they take on cold cases. OG using cadaver dogs in Luz should have showed you what they believe - a probable murdered body was possibly hidden in wasteland or drains.

[misty]

Not just murder is correct Misty but that's what they think when they take on cold cases. OG using cadaver dogs in Luz should have showed you what they believe - a probable murdered body was possibly hidden in wasteland or drains.

Not a belief, Pathfinder, but a suspicion or a possibility, not a probability.

[pathfinder73]

Not a belief, Pathfinder, but a suspicion or a possibility, not a probability.

A strong belief IMO to spend the millions they have on that search operation in Luz and this case.

[Brietta]

< it was imperative that Keela DID NOT alert where Eddie did.>

It's not unusual for a cadaver dog and a blood dog to alert in the same place  i.e. a murder investigation team is working on this case. Eddie's first alert was in the bedroom and Keela did not alert.

Metropolitan Police Service

MPS Publication Scheme Disclosure Log - March 2016

DECISION

I have today decided to disclose the located information to you in full.

1 Detective Sergeant and 3 Detective Constables are dedicated to Op Grange, they are attached to, and under the supervision of, a full Murder Investigation Team, these numbers did not change for the time period you specified.

http://www.met.police.uk/foi/pdfs/disclosure_2016/march_2016/2016010001047.pdf

Eddie's alert at Prout's confirmed to the police he was involved in his wife's disappearance and they eventually produced enough circumstantial evidence to convict him.

No it didn't.

Prout was serving time for the murder and while serving time he confessed to the crime and led police to the burial site.

Please don't rewrite history.

[pathfinder73]

You don't know what you're talking about. Prout was convicted on circumstantial evidence by a jury. No body or forensics was found when he was convicted. He was no longer a suspect when he was arrested and charged with murder.

The husband of a missing Gloucestershire woman is no longer suspected of her murder, police have confirmed.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/gloucestershire/7856110.stm

[Brietta]

A strong belief IMO to spend the millions they have on that search operation in Luz and this case.

Not a strong belief.  Eliminating as many options as possible while following the evidence.  It is how investigations are conducted.

[Brietta]

You don't know what you're talking about. Prout was convicted on circumstantial evidence by a jury. No body or forensics was found when he was convicted. He was no longer a suspect when he was arrested and charged with murder.

The husband of a missing Gloucestershire woman is no longer suspected of her murder, police have confirmed.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/gloucestershire/7856110.stm

Let's read your post very carefully.

You said ... "Prout was convicted on circumstantial evidence by a jury." ... and that is it.  There was enough evidence to enable a jury to convict him of murder.

Know what?  The jury got it absolutely right.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/convicted-wife-killer-adrian-prout-278349

[barrier]

Finally something along the right track
Cadaver Scent project
http://www.csst.org/cadaver_scent.html
"PRELIMINARY RESULTS: The shortest post-mortem interval for which we received a correct response was one hour and 25 minutes. However, the post-mortem interval for which we received a consistently correct response from all dogs involved is 2.5 - 3 hours.

You will have to read it fully to see if it answers your question.

With the extended time interval between the body deceasing (3 May 2007) and the cadaver dog search several months later (in August 2007, I think) the period that the cadaver must have been deceased for would be unlikely to be the minimum time detected in this study, and from looking at the evidence and possible scenarios I would say 2 hours is the maximum time interval available.

Along with most if not all papers the age of the cadaver is not disclosed,unless all cadavers from a day old through to 100 yrs old decompose at the same rate for cadaver scent to occur,just seems unlikely.