Have the dog alerts any significance?

[ShiningInLuz]

Quote from: davel on Today at 04:06:14 PM
There are almost no scientific studies to support the alerts
If there were these could be cited in court and used in evidence
They do not exist
There are dozens, probably hundreds.




the post is still there


i said there are no scientific studies to support the alerts.....youu said there were dozedns posiibly hundreds


you are now trying to say something different

Scientific studies.  Dozens.  Hundreds.  Investigating every aspect of cadaver dog alerts known to man, or beast.

[Mr Gray]

Scientific studies.  Dozens.  Hundreds.  Investigating every aspect of cadaver dog alerts known to man, or beast.

im not sure what that post is trying to show
your original post did not include the line about man or beasts...you have changed it

[ShiningInLuz]

Are you now saying that when Gerry says the dogs are incredibly unreliable, we should dismiss his claim on the basis that there are no scientific studies?  To prove the dogs are unreliable one needs evidence.  Where is it?

[Mr Gray]

You cannot cite a study in a court room, then make the leap to asserting that an alert on its own is evidence that meets the standard required by a court, because it doesn't.

[ShiningInLuz]

im not sure what that post is trying to show
your original post did not include the line about man or beasts...you have changed it

It did.  You have an odd posting style, and my reply went inside the quote because of this.

I changed it simply to shift it outside the quote section.

[Mr Gray]

Are you now saying that when Gerry says the dogs are incredibly unreliable, we should dismiss his claim on the basis that there are no scientific studies?  To prove the dogs are unreliable one needs evidence.  Where is it?

gerry like me is a scientist...there is no evidence either way so we dont know if the alerts are reliable...

we can therefore not accept them as relaible...therefore they are unrelaible

[Mr Gray]

Scientific studies.  Dozens.  Hundreds.  Investigating every aspect of cadaver dog alerts known to man, or beast.

you have now changed your assertion... I can only assume because your previous assertion is unsustainable

[John]

gerry like me is a scientist...there is no evidence either way so we dont know if the alerts are reliable...

we can therefore not accept them as relaible...therefore they are unrelaible

If the alerts aren't reliable the police wouldn't use CSI and VRD's

[Mr Gray]

If the alerts aren't reliable the police wouldn't use CSI and VRD's

the police use these dogs to find evidence...that is their value...the alerts themselves have no value

[Mr Gray]

the police take a dog to a crime scene
over two hours he alerts 100 times and nothing is found
he then alerts and a speck of blood is found which turns out to be crucial
the fact that the dog has made 100 false alerts is not important...he has solved the case

[Alice Purjorick]

gerry like me is a scientist...there is no evidence either way so we dont know if the alerts are reliable...

we can therefore not accept them as relaible...therefore they are unrelaible

That does not follow.

[Mr Gray]

That does not follow.

it does follow...if something cannot be shown to be reliable then it cannot be relied upon....that makes it unreliable

[John]

the police take a dog to a crime scene
over two hours he alerts 100 times and nothing is found
he then alerts and a speck of blood is found which turns out to be crucial
the fact that the dog has made 100 false alerts is not important...he has solved the case

That just proves to me that you don't understand how these specialised dogs work.  These dogs are extremely successful at what they do, they are an invaluable tool in the recovery of victims. The foremost police forces in the world use them constantly as no mechanical method has yet been invented to detect cadaver odour.  If a cadaver dogs alerts after a proper deployment one can be sure that he or she found the target scent.

[Mr Gray]

That just proves to me that you don't understand how these specialised dog work.

I quoted a hypothetical situation.... I understand exactly how these dogs work


what is absolutely true is taht the value in these dogs is in the evidence they find...not in unconfirmed alerts

[Mr Gray]

That just proves to me that you don't understand how these specialised dogs work.  These dogs are extremely successful at what they do, they are an invaluable tool in the recovery of victims. The foremost police forces in the world use them constantly as no mechanical method has yet been invented to detect cadaver odour.

i agree the dogs are invaluable in what they do and what they are good at....but we do not know how significant an unconfirmed alert is