Was stranger abduction unlikely due to the checking regime?

[ferryman]

Once more your opinion is at odds with the SC judge's;

Page 67

Of all those circumstances does not result, in our view, that underlying the book, the documentary and the interview, exists an defamatory intention against the appellants, i.e an animus injuriandi, but rather an animus informandi and an animus defendendi.

What does the ignorance of the opinion of Portuguese judges have to do with English law (what my post was about)?

[The Singularity]

The tabloids are very fond of writing emotive copy which leaves readers in no doubt where their sympathies lie;

'suffering' 'agonised' brave' 'hounded' are adjectives often used to describe the McCanns.
'bumbling' 'blundering' 'disgraced' 'sacked' are adjectives often used to describe Amaral and the PJ.

Their ploy may work on casual readers with no knowledge of the facts of the case, but has no effect on those who understand that it is a ploy.

It definitely doesn't work on a forum, so using that ploy in a debate is a waste of time.

Tabloids do exactly that, and a whole lot more to manipulate, insidiously persuade and even completely whitewash. I don't think it can be considered objective anymore. The people behind the news agencies have their agendas and at times this comes to the forefront over the actual events, or they become skewed.

However I do feel that Benice made salient points, the major one being the kind of person who is able to throw away three years of parental care for a child they struggled to have, sought medical help with to conceive. To simply accept they are capable of doing this without any real indicators does seem a big ask of people.

The bottom line here is after all the interviews, TV coverage of Madeleine's parents, has there been anything to indicate that one, or both are capable of such an act?

[jassi]

Set against ruination of a  promising medical career and  ofa family life with two other children, disposal of a body might seem  the best option at the time.

[Alfie]

Set against ruination of a  promising medical career and  ofa family life with two other children, disposal of a body might seem  the best option at the time.

If the child was found dead and a cover up deemed necessary it would surely be because of some nefarious reason that had caused the death - this in itself (drugs, abuse whatever) would point to serious personality flaws and criminal behaviour in the parents even before adding in the illegal disposal of a corpse, faked abduction and fraudulent fund.

[jassi]

If the child was found dead and a cover up deemed necessary it would surely be because of some nefarious reason that had caused the death - this in itself (drugs, abuse whatever) would point to serious personality flaws and criminal behaviour in the parents even before adding in the illegal disposal of a corpse, faked abduction and fraudulent fund.

If you say so.

[ShiningInLuz]

If the child was found dead and a cover up deemed necessary it would surely be because of some nefarious reason that had caused the death - this in itself (drugs, abuse whatever) would point to serious personality flaws and criminal behaviour in the parents even before adding in the illegal disposal of a corpse, faked abduction and fraudulent fund.

Not necessarily.  It requires no more than a decision that was not wise at a prior point in time, coupled with panic upon finding Madeleine dead. I'm am NOT saying this happened, but that is all it requires.

It doesn't require monstrous anything nor does it require previous nefarious activity.

Under such circumstances, the fund would be fraudulent, as Amaral pointed out in his book.  In the scheme of things it matters very little.

You cannot use character as a shield, just as detractors cannot use behaviour as a sword.

[Alfie]

If you say so.

Well wouldn't it?  You find your child dead for reasons that are not immediately clear and you instantly spring into fake abduction mode doesn't exactly ring true does it?  Unless you're some sort of head case.

[Brietta]

I am not aware of G-Unit proposing that this is THE solution, the most likely solution, or indeed a solution of any sufficient probability to convince a jury that this is what happened.

But to repeat, the opposition to this premise is based on belief.  Both in the nature of the McCanns (and presumably Matthew Oldfield) and that being good people, they would not do such a thing.  What you are asking the forum to accept is that both these beliefs are true.

Roughly speaking, it is like saying the belief the Earth was flat means exploration across the oceans should not have been permitted.

I responded to your post in which you expressed your opinion regarding the logic of a belief system which was introduced and came into being in 2007.

Its adherents, in the main it's original proponent cannot give any valid explanation of its tenets.  Without which there is no substance to the theory.

Therefore the theory which should have rested on the visibility of the evidence of which there is none, has been promoted by some at the expense of the theory in which the absence of evidence is tangible. 

How often is it possible to carry out assessments of the McCanns and Matthew Oldfield before having that pang of regret that a competent initial investigation exercising just a little more vision beyond the nine might have produced a result for Madeleine?

[ferryman]

Not necessarily.  It requires no more than a decision that was not wise at a prior point in time, coupled with panic upon finding Madeleine dead. I'm am NOT saying this happened, but that is all it requires.

It doesn't require monstrous anything nor does it require previous nefarious activity.

Under such circumstances, the fund would be fraudulent, as Amaral pointed out in his book.  In the scheme of things it matters very little.

You cannot use character as a shield, just as detractors cannot use behaviour as a sword.

It requires a hell of a lot more than that.

By 'theMcCannsdunit' theories, what are the McCanns supposed to have done with 'the body' (ghastly term!) in the 3 three weeks between May 3rd and them hiring a car?

And leaving for Huelva in a blaze of publicity, how come no one noticed them slip a three-week-old cadaver into the car before they left?

[ShiningInLuz]

I responded to your post in which you expressed your opinion regarding the logic of a belief system which was introduced and came into being in 2007.

Its adherents, in the main it's original proponent cannot give any valid explanation of its tenets.  Without which there is no substance to the theory.

Therefore the theory which should have rested on the visibility of the evidence of which there is none, has been promoted by some at the expense of the theory in which the absence of evidence is tangible. 

How often is it possible to carry out assessments of the McCanns and Matthew Oldfield before having that pang of regret that a competent initial investigation exercising just a little more vision beyond the nine might have produced a result for Madeleine?

I have no idea of the history of this option, nor who was the original proponent.  As far as I can see, neither matters.

The question is whether the position outlined by G-Unit is possible or not.  It is.  As long as no-one makes the leap from 'it is possible' to stating or implying in the absence of evidence that this is what happened, then it remains merely a possibility.

I assume from your post that the original proponent made that leap.

Aside from the fact that Madeleine is missing, there is no evidence to prove any of the alternatives, otherwise someone would have been locked up by now.

[Brietta]

Not necessarily.  It requires no more than a decision that was not wise at a prior point in time, coupled with panic upon finding Madeleine dead. I'm am NOT saying this happened, but that is all it requires.

It doesn't require monstrous anything nor does it require previous nefarious activity.

Under such circumstances, the fund would be fraudulent, as Amaral pointed out in his book.  In the scheme of things it matters very little.

You cannot use character as a shield, just as detractors cannot use behaviour as a sword.

You are promoting an assumption based on a total misinterpretation of events ... if Kate's request for a priest was interpreted as a sign of Madeleine's death is anything to go by ... later reinforced by another grieving mother's marking of a passage in the bible she lent to Kate.

It is akin to naval gazing.  Whether or not the checking regime rendered abduction unlikely ... there is a reluctance to discuss that or even the probability of abduction.  Maybe it is programming or Pavlov's dogs salivating at working out yet another way of revisiting the same theory.
When will the penny drop that it doesn't matter how often it is reworked the end result is going to be exactly the same as it was in 2007 when investigators couldn't see the wood for the trees.

[Alfie]

If previous character and behaviour of a suspect was of no relevance in a police investigation why do police investigate it in the first place?

[ShiningInLuz]

It requires a hell of a lot more than that.

By 'theMcCannsdunit' theories, what are the McCanns supposed to have done with 'the body' (ghastly term!) in the 3 three weeks between May 3rd and them hiring a car?

And leaving for Huelva in a blaze of publicity, how come no one noticed them slip a three-week-old cadaver into the car before they left?

If you feel the need to incorporate 'retrieved-and-subsequently-disposed' into your argument re McCannsdunnit, so be it.  I don't.  A far simpler option is 'disposed-with-no-retrieval'.  Though 'retrieved-and-subsequently-disposed' can also be made to fly, albeit it is a layer more complex.

You seem to build Huelva up as an essential test in 'retrieved-and-subsequently-disposed'.  I'm not sure why.  To the best of my knowledge, the other people on that trip make it as unlikely as me becoming the next monarch of Patagonia.

I take it you meant 3 month old cadaver?

[Alfie]

If we were to discover that one of the parents had been found guilty of domestic violence would that make any difference to the case against the parents, as far as "sceptics" on here are concerned, or would it be totally irrelevant?

[ferryman]

If you feel the need to incorporate 'retrieved-and-subsequently-disposed' into your argument re McCannsdunnit, so be it.  I don't.  A far simpler option is 'disposed-with-no-retrieval'.  Though 'retrieved-and-subsequently-disposed' can also be made to fly, albeit it is a layer more complex.

You seem to build Huelva up as an essential test in 'retrieved-and-subsequently-disposed'.  I'm not sure why.  To the best of my knowledge, the other people on that trip make it as unlikely as me becoming the next monarch of Patagonia.

I take it you meant 3 month old cadaver?

Portuguese detectives are investigating a trip Kate and Gerry McCann made to Spain, it has emerged.
In full: The Madeleine McCann case
A day after a possible sighting of four-year-old Madeleine was ruled out, police re-focused on her parents, who are formal suspects in her disappearance.

They are believed to be studying CCTV footage of their journey to Huelva, across the Spanish border on August 3 where they went to raise their daughter’s profile.
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Madeleine McCann police 'must find her body' 24 Sep 2007
It is understood police are suspicious of the trip because the McCanns changed their plans at the last minute and did not have any formal meetings while there. Detectives are said to be working on the theory, dismissed as ludicrous by the McCanns, that Mrs McCann may have accidentally killed her daughter and relied on her husband to help cover it up.
One line of inquiry is whether they could have hidden her body and used their silver Renault Scenic -hired 25 days after she disappeared - to dispose of the body. Traces of Madeleine’s DNA were allegedly found in the vehicle.
Police are puzzled by the high mileage, with 1,700km added to the clock between May 27 and July 3. They are sceptical about the Spanish visit because the couple did not arrange any meetings with dignitaries and two hours are unaccounted for, it was claimed. A
police source told Portuguese newspaper Correio da Manha: "The trip to Spain on a national holiday raised suspicion and investigators have been to the country trying to find out where the McCanns went."
The couple’s spokesman Clarence Mitchell insisted the journey was innocent: "The trip to Huelva was organised on behalf of the Find Madeleine Campaign.
 
"It was conducted in the full glare of journalists from all over Europe and beyond. Kate and Gerry McCann are entirely innocent and have nothing to hide."
It is less than 24 hours since a little girl with striking similarities to Madeleine in Morocco was identified as Bouchra Ben Aisa, a farmer’s daughter. There were concerns that the authorities were slow to act after she was traced by journalists rather than police.
A source close to the couple said: "Frankly it is a sign of the times that journalists can locate a relatively obscure child in the Moroccan mountains and one would hope that the authorities were able to locate a child as quickly as that."
But Mrs McCann’s aunt Janet Kennedy said the McCanns were "philosophical".
"Inevitably it is a disappointment, but I think they are very philosophical about it because it’s happened so many times.
"Just suppose Madeleine is in Morocco, what does that mean? You just have to keep on."
Mrs Kennedy spoke as she helped parcel up more than 2,000 toys and gift given to the McCanns which they have decided to send to underprivileged children in Belarus.
They were left at the war memorial near the family’s home in Rothley, Leicestershire, alongside thousands of green and yellow ribbons.
They will be sent to Zhodina, some 20 miles from the capital Minsk, and Bobrusk in the south of the former Russian republic, next week.
The family has spent nearly £300,000 of the fund set up to help find Madeleine, which has now raised £1,041,697.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1564401/Madeleine-McCann-Parents-suspicious-trip.html