Author Topic: The murder of Samuel Alexander - Serious Case Review.  (Read 10454 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Nicholas

Re: The murder of Samuel Alexander - Serious Case Review.
« Reply #210 on: February 07, 2019, 11:54:33 AM »
This is very interesting and may explain some violent crimes (though not this one!). The outcomes theorised in this paper are of course conditional and case-specific. What 'might' happen to one victim of abuse won't happen to every victim of abuse. In this case, none of the experts who assessed Mark came to such a diagnosis. Quite the opposite in fact, they were impressed by how well Mark had dealt with his past, as indeed was everyone who knew him. One typical neighbour remarked:

"Mark was a very pleasant young man. I couldnít imagine how he became so nice after having the father he did". http://www.freemarkalexander.org/testimonials/

We know of course that Mark has been quite overwhelmed emotionally at numerous points, whether it be crying in his police cell, shaking in interview, bursting into tears in the dock under cross-examination, and becoming visibly upset when discussing the loss of his father in therapy. It would be easy to make the mistake of Post hoc, ergo propter hoc here, but Mark's abuse is completely unrelated to Sami's death and has not had the negative impact upon his life that the prosecution implied.

What is important in every case is to subject the individual to the rigours of scientific testing, and face-to-face interaction. Only then can we come to any reliable conclusions. Trying to apply abstract theories to someone you haven't even met, as you seem to be doing, is neither helpful nor reliable.

I donít need to have met Mark to have come to the conclusions I have.

He was investigated and interviewed by the police whose job it is to deal with deviants like him.

And of course, following a trial, a jury found him guilty!

« Last Edit: February 07, 2019, 12:14:11 PM by Nicholas »
A Lie Can Travel Halfway Around the World While the Truth Is Putting On Its Shoes

Offline Nicholas

Re: The murder of Samuel Alexander - Serious Case Review.
« Reply #211 on: February 07, 2019, 11:59:34 AM »
This is very interesting and may explain some violent crimes (though not this one!). The outcomes theorised in this paper are of course conditional and case-specific. What 'might' happen to one victim of abuse won't happen to every victim of abuse. In this case, none of the experts who assessed Mark came to such a diagnosis. Quite the opposite in fact, they were impressed by how well Mark had dealt with his past, as indeed was everyone who knew him. One typical neighbour remarked:

"Mark was a very pleasant young man. I couldnít imagine how he became so nice after having the father he did". http://www.freemarkalexander.org/testimonials/

We know of course that Mark has been quite overwhelmed emotionally at numerous points, whether it be crying in his police cell, shaking in interview, bursting into tears in the dock under cross-examination, and becoming visibly upset when discussing the loss of his father in therapy. It would be easy to make the mistake of Post hoc, ergo propter hoc here, but Mark's abuse is completely unrelated to Sami's death and has not had the negative impact upon his life that the prosecution implied.

What is important in every case is to subject the individual to the rigours of scientific testing, and face-to-face interaction. Only then can we come to any reliable conclusions. Trying to apply abstract theories to someone you haven't even met, as you seem to be doing, is neither helpful nor reliable.

This is a reg flag
A Lie Can Travel Halfway Around the World While the Truth Is Putting On Its Shoes

Offline Nicholas

Re: The murder of Samuel Alexander - Serious Case Review.
« Reply #212 on: February 07, 2019, 12:01:11 PM »
This is very interesting and may explain some violent crimes (though not this one!). The outcomes theorised in this paper are of course conditional and case-specific. What 'might' happen to one victim of abuse won't happen to every victim of abuse. In this case, none of the experts who assessed Mark came to such a diagnosis. Quite the opposite in fact, they were impressed by how well Mark had dealt with his past, as indeed was everyone who knew him. One typical neighbour remarked:

"Mark was a very pleasant young man. I couldnít imagine how he became so nice after having the father he did". http://www.freemarkalexander.org/testimonials/

We know of course that Mark has been quite overwhelmed emotionally at numerous points, whether it be crying in his police cell, shaking in interview, bursting into tears in the dock under cross-examination, and becoming visibly upset when discussing the loss of his father in therapy. It would be easy to make the mistake of Post hoc, ergo propter hoc here, but Mark's abuse is completely unrelated to Sami's death and has not had the negative impact upon his life that the prosecution implied.

What is important in every case is to subject the individual to the rigours of scientific testing, and face-to-face interaction. Only then can we come to any reliable conclusions. Trying to apply abstract theories to someone you haven't even met, as you seem to be doing, is neither helpful nor reliable.

He didnít! (ďbecome so nice)

Incidentally:

ďMagnetic resonance imaging (MRI) studies have made it possible for scientists to watch the rate at which the PFC matures, and have discovered the male brain doesn't fully develop until age 25

MRIs have revealed the brain has a developmental process that tends to occur from the back of the brain to the front, which explains why the prefrontal cortex develops last. With an immature PFC, even though the person can intellectualize dangerous situation or poor behavior, they may engage regardless. The slowness of a man's brain maturation can explain the list of maturity failings, and their own recognition and admittance of those failings

https://www.medicaldaily.com/men-mature-after-women-11-years-after-be-exact-british-study-reveals-246716

ď.....they hide among us. Sometimes as the most successful people in society because theyíre often ruthless, callous and superficially charming, while having little or no regard for the feelings or needs of others.

These are known as ďsuccessfulĒ psychopaths, as they have a tendency to perform premeditated crimes with calculated risk. Or they may manipulate someone else into breaking the law, while keeping themselves safely at a distance. Theyíre master manipulators of other peoplesí feelings, but are unable to experience emotions themselves
https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/the-difference-between-a-psychopath-and-a-sociopath-10422016.html
« Last Edit: February 07, 2019, 12:07:41 PM by Nicholas »
A Lie Can Travel Halfway Around the World While the Truth Is Putting On Its Shoes

Offline Nicholas

Re: The murder of Samuel Alexander - Serious Case Review.
« Reply #213 on: February 07, 2019, 12:29:22 PM »
This is very interesting and may explain some violent crimes (though not this one!). The outcomes theorised in this paper are of course conditional and case-specific. What 'might' happen to one victim of abuse won't happen to every victim of abuse. In this case, none of the experts who assessed Mark came to such a diagnosis. Quite the opposite in fact, they were impressed by how well Mark had dealt with his past, as indeed was everyone who knew him. One typical neighbour remarked:

"Mark was a very pleasant young man. I couldnít imagine how he became so nice after having the father he did". http://www.freemarkalexander.org/testimonials/

We know of course that Mark has been quite overwhelmed emotionally at numerous points, whether it be crying in his police cell, shaking in interview, bursting into tears in the dock under cross-examination, and becoming visibly upset when discussing the loss of his father in therapy. It would be easy to make the mistake of Post hoc, ergo propter hoc here, but Mark's abuse is completely unrelated to Sami's death and has not had the negative impact upon his life that the prosecution implied.

What is important in every case is to subject the individual to the rigours of scientific testing, and face-to-face interaction. Only then can we come to any reliable conclusions. Trying to apply abstract theories to someone you haven't even met, as you seem to be doing, is neither helpful nor reliable.

WHO has made the mistake of ďpost hoc, ergo proctor hocĒ here?

I suspect Marks tears have been for himself. Pathological/disordered individuals are renowned for putting on the waterworks
« Last Edit: February 07, 2019, 12:34:13 PM by Nicholas »
A Lie Can Travel Halfway Around the World While the Truth Is Putting On Its Shoes

Offline Nicholas

Re: The murder of Samuel Alexander - Serious Case Review.
« Reply #214 on: February 07, 2019, 01:02:47 PM »
Well, we don't think Mark murdered his father at all. These kind of relationships are complex, but we think the prosecution fundamentally distorted the reality of situation for their own benefit. They were essentially saying that Mark's childhood experiences led to what happened, and go to Mark's motive. But given that the abuse stopped when Mark became a teenager it doesn't make much sense that he would suddenly snap at the age of 21, five years later, just as he was about to leave home. All he had to do was wait a few weeks! If he'd waited five years, a few weeks wasn't going to hurt.

Love is a very subjective thing. Whatever we call it, these two people clearly cared for each other. Mark wouldn't have nursed his father back to health for 6 months, washed him, helped him on the toilet etc. if he didn't care about him. And he wouldn't have done all of that just to take his life away later. Sami had a control problem and an anger problem, granted, but nobody is completely one-sided. Everyone has different sides to their personality, and there was a lot about Sami that those closest to him loved about him. Many people have described him as a "lovable rogue" for instance.

What are you basing this on? Your understanding of ďthese kind of relationshipsĒ or what Mark has claimed?
A Lie Can Travel Halfway Around the World While the Truth Is Putting On Its Shoes

Offline Fact Checker

Re: The murder of Samuel Alexander - Serious Case Review.
« Reply #215 on: February 08, 2019, 11:17:31 AM »
I donít need to have met Mark to have come to the conclusions I have. And of course, following a trial, a jury found him guilty!

Because of course, no jury has ever made a mistake!

(&^&

You do realise this is a miscarriage of justice forum, right? That every case presented here implies that a jury got it wrong? That every past exoneration of every wrongly convicted man and woman reveals the extent to which juries, prosecutors, forensic teams, and police get things wrong?

We've been pretty clear that there is no evidence to support any of your theories. There is nothing more to say.

But, moving on, what does all this boil down to Nicholas? Do you think that Mark should have been convicted of manslaughter because of the years of abuse, or some act of provocation, or accident, or self-defense?


« Last Edit: February 08, 2019, 11:20:56 AM by Fact Checker »
This account is run by volunteers on the freeMarkAlexander.org team. We welcome healthy debate, but please try to avoid making unsubstantiated or libelous claims. Please excuse us if we do not respond to a post immediately. We may need to conduct further research before we can answer a question fully and this might take some time. All of our posted images are licensed by freeMarkAlexander.org under a Creative Commons Attribution-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License.

Offline Nicholas

Re: The murder of Samuel Alexander - Serious Case Review.
« Reply #216 on: February 08, 2019, 01:08:10 PM »
Because of course, no jury has ever made a mistake!

(&^&

You do realise this is a miscarriage of justice forum, right? That every case presented here implies that a jury got it wrong? That every past exoneration of every wrongly convicted man and woman reveals the extent to which juries, prosecutors, forensic teams, and police get things wrong?

We've been pretty clear that there is no evidence to support any of your theories. There is nothing more to say.

You appear to have been taken in by Marks pseudologia fantastica
A Lie Can Travel Halfway Around the World While the Truth Is Putting On Its Shoes

Offline Nicholas

Re: The murder of Samuel Alexander - Serious Case Review.
« Reply #217 on: February 08, 2019, 01:32:58 PM »

But, moving on, what does all this boil down to Nicholas? Do you think that Mark should have been convicted of manslaughter because of the years of abuse, or some act of provocation, or accident, or self-defense?

Only Mark knows why he murdered his father.

You may know that in 2015 Section 76 of the Serious Crime Act 2015 created a new offence of controlling or coercive behaviour in an intimate or family relationship? The thing is I cannot see how Mark could now use this as an argument in his defence.

If Samiís murder was an accident; I have my doubts, Mark should have held his hands up at the earliest opportunity.

A Lie Can Travel Halfway Around the World While the Truth Is Putting On Its Shoes

Offline John

Re: The murder of Samuel Alexander - Serious Case Review.
« Reply #218 on: February 09, 2019, 03:06:48 AM »
Only Mark knows why he murdered his father.

You may know that in 2015 Section 76 of the Serious Crime Act 2015 created a new offence of controlling or coercive behaviour in an intimate or family relationship? The thing is I cannot see how Mark could now use this as an argument in his defence.

If Sami’s murder was an accident; I have my doubts, Mark should have held his hands up at the earliest opportunity.

Many such killings result from a conflict which gets out of control with terrible consequences for all concerned. It is quite possible that Mark didn't initiate the violence but his conduct afterwards rendered his destiny beyond doubt.  Actions have consequences which he undoubtedly now knows to his eternal regret.
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. John Lamberton exposes malfeasance by public officials.
Check out my website >   http://johnlamberton.webs.com/index.htm?no_redirect=true     The truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Fact Checker

Re: The murder of Samuel Alexander - Serious Case Review.
« Reply #219 on: February 11, 2019, 03:59:23 PM »
You may know that in 2015 Section 76 of the Serious Crime Act 2015 created a new offence of controlling or coercive behaviour in an intimate or family relationship? The thing is I cannot see how Mark could now use this as an argument in his defence.

If Samiís murder was an accident; I have my doubts, Mark should have held his hands up at the earliest opportunity.

Yeah, I mean it's interesting to hear everyone's thoughts on this. However you look at it, Mark shouldn't be in prison right now. A manslaughter conviction would have seen him released years ago. If the State is going to send someone to jail they need to do it for the right reasons and for the right amount of time. In a sense we're kind of arguing for the same result but from different ends.
This account is run by volunteers on the freeMarkAlexander.org team. We welcome healthy debate, but please try to avoid making unsubstantiated or libelous claims. Please excuse us if we do not respond to a post immediately. We may need to conduct further research before we can answer a question fully and this might take some time. All of our posted images are licensed by freeMarkAlexander.org under a Creative Commons Attribution-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License.

Offline Nicholas

Re: The murder of Samuel Alexander - Serious Case Review.
« Reply #220 on: February 12, 2019, 11:43:19 AM »
Yeah, I mean it's interesting to hear everyone's thoughts on this. However you look at it, Mark shouldn't be in prison right now. A manslaughter conviction would have seen him released years ago. If the State is going to send someone to jail they need to do it for the right reasons and for the right amount of time. In a sense we're kind of arguing for the same result but from different ends.

Iím not sure how you can say this?

Iíve seen no evidence to point to his innocence. Nothing youíve posted makes me believe this case is a MOJ.

Following my experience, I donít have much faith in prison councellors or many of the forensic psychologists so I donít tend to believe much of what they claim.

And a manslaughter conviction wasnít on the table? Though Iím guessing Mark was hoping heíd be done for manslaughter as opposed to murder.
A Lie Can Travel Halfway Around the World While the Truth Is Putting On Its Shoes

Offline Fact Checker

Re: The murder of Samuel Alexander - Serious Case Review.
« Reply #221 on: February 13, 2019, 02:14:17 PM »
And a manslaughter conviction wasnít on the table?

Yeah so, interestingly, Mark turned down a charge-bargain before trial which would have taken murder off the table:

http://www.freemarkalexander.org/faq/#manslaughter

Manslaughter was also one of the options available to the jury at the end of trial.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2019, 02:18:12 PM by Fact Checker »
This account is run by volunteers on the freeMarkAlexander.org team. We welcome healthy debate, but please try to avoid making unsubstantiated or libelous claims. Please excuse us if we do not respond to a post immediately. We may need to conduct further research before we can answer a question fully and this might take some time. All of our posted images are licensed by freeMarkAlexander.org under a Creative Commons Attribution-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License.

Offline John

Re: The murder of Samuel Alexander - Serious Case Review.
« Reply #222 on: February 13, 2019, 10:06:11 PM »
Yeah so, interestingly, Mark turned down a charge-bargain before trial which would have taken murder off the table:

http://www.freemarkalexander.org/faq/#manslaughter

Manslaughter was also one of the options available to the jury at the end of trial.

According to Mark...

“I’m often asked why I didn’t plead manslaughter. I was offered a charge-bargain quite early on which would have seen me spending about five years in prison. If I was guilty, I’d have jumped at it. But I guess that’s the point, I wasn’t going to admit to something I hadn’t done. Some people do cut their losses, it’s true, and in about 10% of guilty pleas the defendants are thought to be innocent. The bottom line is that I’m being punished for sticking to my principles and maintaining my innocence. In other words, had I made up some story to fit the prosecution’s case, I would have been rewarded with a sentence reduction. The price of my conscientious resistance has been life imprisonment.

Accepting manslaughter now would be very easy, but also very selfish. It would mean giving up on our pursuit of the truth. The suffering and pain I might save myself would instead be inflicted upon my family, who have already endured too much. The outcome of this case is bigger than one individual alone, it is a matter of legacy. Clearing my name and finding my father’s real killers means removing the stain of injustice and stigma of conviction from our family as a whole. Would I take the easy way out now, if I could turn back time? Not a chance. Besides, I’d like to think I’d make better use of a time machine than that!"



I have much sympathy with Mark if this is true.  I was put in the very same position before my trial and would have walked away with a two year sentence had I returned a guilty plea.  But I too am not the sort of person who will plead guilty to something I didn't do regardless of the carrot being dangled in front of me.

It's an interesting point though from his point of view but one cannot ignore the possibility that he was guilty but was so cock sure of getting off that admitting guilt was a non starter.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2019, 10:14:37 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. John Lamberton exposes malfeasance by public officials.
Check out my website >   http://johnlamberton.webs.com/index.htm?no_redirect=true     The truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Nicholas

Re: The murder of Samuel Alexander - Serious Case Review.
« Reply #223 on: February 16, 2019, 02:17:35 PM »
Many such killings result from a conflict which gets out of control with terrible consequences for all concerned. It is quite possible that Mark didn't initiate the violence but his conduct afterwards rendered his destiny beyond doubt.  Actions have consequences which he undoubtedly now knows to his eternal regret.

Burying Sami wasnít an accident, that was a premeditated act.

Again Iím not so sure murder was an accident?!
« Last Edit: February 16, 2019, 04:42:43 PM by Nicholas »
A Lie Can Travel Halfway Around the World While the Truth Is Putting On Its Shoes

Offline Nicholas

Re: The murder of Samuel Alexander - Serious Case Review.
« Reply #224 on: February 16, 2019, 02:21:22 PM »
According to Mark...

ďIím often asked why I didnít plead manslaughter. I was offered a charge-bargain quite early on which would have seen me spending about five years in prison. If I was guilty, Iíd have jumped at it. But I guess thatís the point, I wasnít going to admit to something I hadnít done. Some people do cut their losses, itís true, and in about 10% of guilty pleas the defendants are thought to be innocent. The bottom line is that Iím being punished for sticking to my principles and maintaining my innocence. In other words, had I made up some story to fit the prosecutionís case, I would have been rewarded with a sentence reduction. The price of my conscientious resistance has been life imprisonment.

Accepting manslaughter now would be very easy, but also very selfish. It would mean giving up on our pursuit of the truth. The suffering and pain I might save myself would instead be inflicted upon my family, who have already endured too much. The outcome of this case is bigger than one individual alone, it is a matter of legacy. Clearing my name and finding my fatherís real killers means removing the stain of injustice and stigma of conviction from our family as a whole. Would I take the easy way out now, if I could turn back time? Not a chance. Besides, Iíd like to think Iíd make better use of a time machine than that!"



I have much sympathy with Mark if this is true.  I was put in the very same position before my trial and would have walked away with a two year sentence had I returned a guilty plea.  But I too am not the sort of person who will plead guilty to something I didn't do regardless of the carrot being dangled in front of me
.

It's an interesting point though from his point of view but one cannot ignore the possibility that he was guilty but was so cock sure of getting off that admitting guilt was a non starter.

You were arrested and convicted regarding a white collar crime; Marks was for murder. There arenít many criminals who hold their hands up to this.
A Lie Can Travel Halfway Around the World While the Truth Is Putting On Its Shoes