SC's Palms and Fingers

[Holly Goodhead]

Nah I often get mixed up with swab swap.. XD

Lead is one of the elements a GSR kit is designed to pick up on. I don't believe the tests are invalid or anything was swapped around.

Read the lab documents below. "These findings indicate that Sheila Caffell is unlikely to have loaded cartridges into the magazine shortly before her death" Its a well known fact that trace elements do not stay on living subjects for that long. The magazine could have last been loaded several hours before her death.

Furthermore the XRF results show that Sheila had four times as much lead on her right hand than her left hand. As it goes the same ratio as one of the lab testees. It is no coincidence IMO that Sheila being right handed had four times as much lead on her right hand than her left hand.

David taking the docs you posted above (thanks btw) there are two measurements: lead measured in micrograms and also wavelength based on how the lead responds when bombarded with gamma rays:

Testee/SC     Hand      Mg          G           Wavelength

JWH              RH          15          0.15       11425

JWH              LH           3           0.003       3480

SW               RH           8           0.008       8019

SW               LH            4          0.004       4425

SC               RH           1.2        0.0012      1345

SC               LH           0.10       0.0001       337

Hand = Left/Right
Mg = Microgram
G = Gram

I've added in an extra column for gram as this is something we can all relate to from measuring out cooking ingredients. 

The microgram wasn't provided for SC but I've worked it out approx based on the wavelength and micrograms provided for the testees.   

At 1.28min in the D lead vid shows pads containing 20, 50 and 100 micrograms of lead taken from the hand.  You will see how the area containing 20 mg is very small and this is more than twice the amount on JWH's RH.

https://uk.video.search.yahoo.com/search/video?fr=moz35&p=d+lead+youtube+testing+lead+on+hands#id=1&vid=feeccc9564ac8d525c67dc7edbd763d7&action=click

In the 2002 appeal Dr Lloyd is quoted as saying the results were not qualitatively different.  Was this a typo and should it have read quantitatively?

218. Dr Lloyd's conclusions, as apparent from a report with which we were supplied, were principally that the lead found on the handswabs from Sheila Caffell and from those tested in the laboratory came from petrol combustion residues and was not connected with the handling of bullets. Secondly that the handswabs from Sheila Caffell were not qualitatively different from those from the testees. He was critical of the laboratory test saying that swabs should have been taken both before the handling of the bullets so that a comparison could have been made between the two. Accordingly in his opinion the test results were of no assistance to the determination of whether or not Sheila Caffell had handled the cartridges in the same manner as the testees.

or quantitatively?
               

[Holly Goodhead]

The only major flaw is that on meeting young David you scare the living daylights out of him!

David knows I'm a harmless little pussy cat. 

[Myster]

David knows I'm a harmless little pussy cat.

... with retractable claws.

[Myster]

He's also got some velly intelesting developments re the scratches... stay tooned!

[Holly Goodhead]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/6197144/Children-exposed-to-dangerous-levels-of-lead-from-soil.html

https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/topics/lead/safe.html

The first article shows how prevalent lead was and still is albeit to a lesser degree.

The second article shows it is not possible to remove lead from hands by simply washing with soap and water.  Therefore in terms of the test carried out on testees and SC's hands it is clearly not a valid test as there's no evidence the testees hands were checked for lead content prior to the tests.  The fact JWH had higher lead test results might simply be down to filling up his car with leaded petrol, gardening, living in a house with old leaded paint or coming into contact with other items containing lead. 

I am struggling to see how the scientists at FSS could be so incompetent as to see the test was a valid scientific one capable of demonstrating it was unlikely SC handled the cartridges based on lead levels on hands.  Paul Terzeon, Geoffrey Rivlin and Ed Lawson did not investigate this properly and consequently went with the "ritualistic cleanse".  I wonder how the trial would have gone had JB stuck with local solicitor Bruce Bowler.       

[Holly Goodhead]

... with retractable claws.

That's catty!

 

[Holly Goodhead]

He's also got some velly intelesting developments re the scratches... stay tooned!

Well I hope before the intelesting developments are announced re the scratches David will respond to my posts on this thread.

David on 2nd Sept you posted:

"Lead is one of the elements a GSR kit is designed to pick up on. I don't believe the tests are invalid or anything was swapped around".

I have made a number of posts since arguing against anticipating a robust mass debating session but nothing...

[Holly Goodhead]

Nah I often get mixed up with swab swap.. XD

Lead is one of the elements a GSR kit is designed to pick up on. I don't believe the tests are invalid or anything was swapped around.

Read the lab documents below. "These findings indicate that Sheila Caffell is unlikely to have loaded cartridges into the magazine shortly before her death" Its a well known fact that trace elements do not stay on living subjects for that long. The magazine could have last been loaded several hours before her death.

Furthermore the XRF results show that Sheila had four times as much lead on her right hand than her left hand. As it goes the same ratio as one of the lab testees. It is no coincidence IMO that Sheila being right handed had four times as much lead on her right hand than her left hand.

I also disagree with your assertion that trace elements do not stay on living subjects that long.  GSR dissipates but not lead on skin.  In fact it is difficult to remove lead from skin.

https://www.astm.org/DIGITAL_LIBRARY/JOURNALS/JAI/PAGES/JAI103527.htm

[Myster]

I also disagree with your assertion that trace elements do not stay on living subjects that long.  GSR dissipates but not lead on skin.  In fact it is difficult to remove lead from skin.

https://www.astm.org/DIGITAL_LIBRARY/JOURNALS/JAI/PAGES/JAI103527.htm

After you've been working an eight hour shift making car batteries, in a factory contaminated with lead on materials, machinery, other objects and in the air.  As you said yourself when loading a magazine, there was no need to touch any part of the lead bullet, only the brass casing.

[Holly Goodhead]

After you've been working an eight hour shift making car batteries, in a factory contaminated with lead on materials, machinery, other objects and in the air.  As you said yourself when loading a magazine, there was no need to touch any part of the lead bullet, only the brass casing.

Yes I agree I was just responding to David's assertion that "Its a well known fact that trace elements do not stay on living subjects for that long".  This is so for GSR but not so for lead.  The subject under discussion is lead not GSR.  David is doing what other have done and conflating the two.

The lead present on the hands of the testees and SC, which in all cases was very little, was most likely from touching everday items.  Perhaps if they washed their hands thoroughly it would all be removed but a little may remain.  Even in the absence of hand washing GSR would dissipate.

[Holly Goodhead]

David it would be nice if you could either put up some counter arguments to my posts or concede that you didn't think it though properly and the test results used at trial were meaningless.  Thanks in anticipation.  Holly.

[Myster]

David it would be nice if you could either put up some counter arguments to my posts or concede that you didn't think it though properly and the test results used at trial were meaningless.  Thanks in anticipation.  Holly.

He's busily engaged at the mo, trumpeting some trumpery about Trump.

[Holly Goodhead]

He's busily engaged at the mo, trumpeting some trumpery about Trump.

Oh yes just had a peep.  Well to some degree I agree with David on this.  I don't really have a problem with DT.  A lot of what is said is just social and mainstream media drivel.  When someone asked Hilary Clinton if there was anything she admired about DT she answered his children.  I agree they all seem well adjusted decent people albeit they have had every advantage going.  The fact they have all turned out well must to some degree be down to how he brought them up.  Contrast the likes of Ivanka Trump with Chloe Green or the Ecclestone sisters.  Oops seriously off topic.

You can see Baron Trump here play peekaboo with his little nephew.  Cute.  Hardly the sort of thing a 12 year old boy would do if his father is the sort of person Maggie believes him to be.  And apparently no nannies or the like involved with BT unlike the Bambers with SC and JB. 

https://uk.video.search.yahoo.com/search/video?fr=moz35&p=baron+trump+playing+with+nehew#id=1&vid=950030bc15fe93b98f9629bbd4000dca&action=click

Maggie makes such a big thing about racism I wonder if there's something going on in her subsconscience. 

[Myster]

Oh yes just had a peep.  Well to some degree I agree with David on this.  I don't really have a problem with DT.  A lot of what is said is just social and mainstream media drivel.  When someone asked Hilary Clinton if there was anything she admired about DT she answered his children.  I agree they all seem well adjusted decent people albeit they have had every advantage going.  The fact they have all turned out well must to some degree be down to how he brought them up.  Contrast the likes of Ivanka Trump with Chloe Green or the Ecclestone sisters.  Oops seriously off topic.

You can see Baron Trump here play peekaboo with his little nephew.  Cute.  Hardly the sort of thing a 12 year old boy would do if his father is the sort of person Maggie believes him to be.  And apparently no nannies or the like involved with BT unlike the Bambers with SC and JB. 

https://uk.video.search.yahoo.com/search/video?fr=moz35&p=baron+trump+playing+with+nehew#id=1&vid=950030bc15fe93b98f9629bbd4000dca&action=click

Maggie makes such a big thing about racism I wonder if there's something going on in her subsconscience.

So long as Trump doesn't let a big stinker off on North Korea, he'll muddle through controversially for the rest of his term. The Yanks own fault for electing him, but they hadn't much choice and couldn't stomach another Clinton in power.

[adam]

He's also got some velly intelesting developments re the scratches... stay tooned!

The developments on the scratches were not supplied yesterday. Which was dissappointing but not surprising.

Maybe they will supplied today.