So what now, post Supreme Court decisions?

[ShiningInLuz]

Im asking for an expalnation....you dont seem to understand the meaning of the word assistance. Without any sort of expalnation as to why you undersatnd this....your post is simply waffle

I am not required by the forum to provide cites for posts coming under the heading IMO, and 'I understand' is in that group.

I have declined twice to explain this further, but feel free to keep flogging the same dead horse.

[ShiningInLuz]

The culmination of a murder enquiry was that Kate and Gerry were made arguidos, accused of murdering their eldest daughter.

They were offered the deal that Kate would receive only a few years if she confessed to finding and concealing 'a body', and Gerry would be let off scot free.

And yes, Brietta is absolutely right, the 'plea-bargain' is a feature of American law, reached after charges are brought, in which the accused pleads guilty to minor charges, for which comparatively lenient sentences will be imposed, in return for a promise that more serious charges will be dropped.

The McCanns were never charged.

And in any event, because, in Portugal, the police and the judiciary operate independently of each other, 'plea-bargains are not possible.

I am not aware they were ever accused of anything, let alone murder.

One does not accuse an arguido in Portugal, any more than one accuses a person conducting an interview under caution in the UK.

[ferryman]

I am not aware they were ever accused of anything, let alone murder.

One does not accuse an arguido in Portugal, any more than one accuses a person conducting an interview under caution in the UK.

The arguido status is an accusation, short of charges, of a criminal offence:

Q&A: Suspects and Portuguese law
Madeleine McCann's parents have been named official suspects by Portuguese police investigating their daughter's disappearance.

Previously, a 33-year-old British man - Robert Murat - was also declared "arguido" by detectives.

People given arguido/a status are officially treated as a suspect in a crime.

None of the three have been arrested or charged.

How is arguido status given and what does it mean?

Under Portuguese law either the police or a person being questioned can request that they be formally named as a suspect, a process called arguido.

Artur Rego, a Portuguese lawyer, told BBC News: "Arguido is the person who has been accused of being the perpetrator.

"This is just an accusation made exactly at the end of the investigation."

A person can ask for arguido status if they feel the line of questioning is implying that they are a suspect. This gives them more rights than a witness would have.

What rights does an arguido have?

Arguido status gives a range of legal protections, such as the right to remain silent and the right to a lawyer during questioning.

Mr Rego said: "Sometimes when they [the police] suspect someone, they call that person in as a witness.

"They don't constitute him as arguido and they extract as much information from him as they can, because as a witness he cannot refuse to collaborate with the police.

"Now the moment he is constituted as arguido, as the defendant, then he can not only refuse to answer questions because they can incriminate him, but also he has the right to be accompanied in the questionings by his own solicitor."

Once someone is an arguido they can be arrested, but only if there is sufficient evidence.

What action can the courts take against an arguido?

The police can use their powers to bring the suspect before a judge to ask for restrictions to be imposed on their movements.

If they do, they could be banned from leaving their house or the area, or held in custody while the case continues.

In this case, the suspect is not subject to a judge's order, but has signed an identity and residence statement.

It prevents the person moving house or leaving the country. If they stay anywhere other than their given place of residence for more than five days they have to notify police.

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What are these?

To be a suspect in a crime is to be accused, is it not?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6657977.stm

[Mr Gray]

I am not required by the forum to provide cites for posts coming under the heading IMO, and 'I understand' is in that group.

I have declined twice to explain this further, but feel free to keep flogging the same dead horse.

I am not asking for a cite

[ShiningInLuz]

What you mean is - you can't answer the question without looking silly, come on - be honest now!

Poder- to be able to, to have the power to.  Posso - I can, I am able to, I have the power to.  Except to do so would be in breach of forum rules, so I am not.

Is there to be another round of dead-horse flogging or can we move on to something interesting?

[Mr Gray]

It is my understanding that Kate WAS offerred a deal by the pj

[ferryman]

It is my understanding that Kate WAS offerred a deal by the pj

And mine.

[ShiningInLuz]

Kate was being encouraged to confess to body concealment with the enticement of only 2 years in prison for hiding a body - sounds like they were trying it on to me.

You are now getting close to the important bit with 'trying it on', but you are not there yet.

What should Kate, Gerry and Carlos have realised at this time?

[Alfie]

Poder- to be able to, to have the power to.  Posso - I can, I am able to, I have the power to.  Except to do so would be in breach of forum rules, so I am not.

Is there to be another round of dead-horse flogging or can we move on to something interesting?

The very definition of this forum is dead-horse flogging, hadn't you noticed?  What would you like to talk about that hasn't been done to death a thousand times already?  How's the weather over there? We've had some warm temperatures this weekend, but not so mild today.  They say Easter will be cool which is a shame.  hey - ho, what are you having for dinner?  Thai green curry for us I think.  Yum.   

[stephen25000]

It is my understanding that Kate WAS offerred a deal by the pj

'DEALS' aren't allowed under Portuguese Law.

[ferryman]

'DEALS' aren't allowed under Portuguese Law.

Neither is it allowed by Portuguese law that suspects are beaten in police custody.

The Portuguese courts still found it proved that Leonor Cipriano was tortured in police custody.

[stephen25000]

Neither is it allowed by Portuguese law that suspects are beaten in police custody.

The Portuguese courts still found it proved that Leonor Cipriano was tortured in police custody.

I'm afraid that just trying to tag Portugal with certain behaviour is rather trite.

Perhaps you can remind me of which members of the PJ have served a sentence for 'torturing' Cipriano, the convicted child murderer and convicted liar, who of course had her sentence extended.

She, of course gave multiple varied accounts of what happened to her.

[ShiningInLuz]

The arguido status is an accusation, short of charges, of a criminal offence:

To be a suspect in a crime is to be accused, is it not?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6657977.stm

To be interviewed under caution in the UK has the connotation that one is a suspect in something and one can incriminate oneself.

To be interviewed as an arguido in Portugal has the same negative connotation i.e. that one is a suspect or that one can incriminate oneself.  However, no one is told up front in a formal manner what the police might suspect them of, although the line of questioning and 'evidence' presented should make that clear as one progresses.

Thank you for the link.  My only issue was that the term arguido was being bandied about then, and in the OG period, as a small step away from 'the police have gotcha'.  Most of the clarification articles tend to be somewhat simplistic attempts to make clear this interpretation is inaccurate.

Again, thank you for your link.

[ShiningInLuz]

The very definition of this forum is dead-horse flogging, hadn't you noticed?  What would you like to talk about that hasn't been done to death a thousand times already?  How's the weather over there? We've had some warm temperatures this weekend, but not so mild today.  They say Easter will be cool which is a shame.  hey - ho, what are you having for dinner?  Thai green curry for us I think.  Yum.   

Mid-day temps in the shade in Centigrade from 1 Apr 2017 have been 23, 21, 22, 22, 22, 21, 23, 20, 20, 20.  Shorts and sandals.  No rain.  Just ShiningInLuz.  Before you ask, I am running a weather experiment in Luz before we relocate, so I am also recording the weather conditions at 10pm each evening.

I'm having a takeaway from a Chinese in Luz.  Just special fried rice.  I reckon you win the duel of the dinners with Thai green curry.  Enjoy!

 

[Alice Purjorick]

Mid-day temps in the shade in Centigrade from 1 Apr 2017 have been 23, 21, 22, 22, 22, 21, 23, 20, 20, 20.  Shorts and sandals.  No rain.  Just ShiningInLuz.  Before you ask, I am running a weather experiment in Luz before we relocate, so I am also recording the weather conditions at 10pm each evening.

I'm having a takeaway from a Chinese in Luz.  Just special fried rice.  I reckon you win the duel of the dinners with Thai green curry.  Enjoy!

 

Don't forget to record the wind direction and velocity too.
On the food front I will stick with pie and mash with green liquor served in the traditional manner