Author Topic: The Defence Will State Their Case  (Read 163110 times)

0 Members and 13 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline [...]

Re: The Defence Will State Their Case
« Reply #285 on: July 13, 2017, 07:58:03 AM »
Another thing I find odd... Is that DC Karen Thomas says that the interview was at a Hotel....

Does she really mean a Hotel or did they use the facilities at The Detention Centre Schiphol... which oddly enough get outsourced to private companies... G4S being one of them

Quote
Privatisation and outsourcing. The provision of security and medical care at detention centres is outsourced to private companies. G4S, one of a growing number of multinational companies involved in immigration detention, provides security at all detention centres, while medical care is provided by various companies.[34] According to Dutch sources, the Schiphol and Rotterdam centres were set up and are operated as public-private partnerships, although these sources do not make clear who all the private partners are.

Anything in this case is possible... I have found ....

https://www.globaldetentionproject.org/countries/europe/netherlands


Edit:.....
Quote
The world’s largest private security company G4S, which operates three facilities in the UK and another at Schiphol airport in Amsterdam, told this website it would expand its detention centre contracts should more opportunities appear in mainland Europe.


Next Question.... Did G4S transport Dr Vincent Tabak in Prison van ???


https://euobserver.com/priv-immigration/121454

Offline [...]

Re: The Defence Will State Their Case
« Reply #286 on: July 13, 2017, 08:09:14 AM »
His family rented two chalets (cottages) in a leisure complex for the New Year holiday in the Netherlands. The location wasn't mentioned in any of the British media, nor any of the Dutch newspapers that I saw online. I don't rule out that it was mentioned in one of the Dutch TV reports and printed media.

The nearest lesiure complex to Schiphol I could find where you rent chalets is

https://www.homeaway.com.au/holiday-rental/p6036321

which is 77 kilometeres away from the Airport.....

Still keep asking the question ...Why interview Dr Vincent Tabak at Schiphol Airport if he was "ONLY" supposed to be a "Witness" ???

Offline [...]

Re: The Defence Will State Their Case
« Reply #287 on: July 13, 2017, 02:09:29 PM »
Well.... The Prosecution did a number with their 1300 page document.... They followed procedure....Well sort of.... They took what they required from "Procedure" and applied it to the case against Dr Vincent Tabak...... (IMO)..

Quote
(vi)Electronic presentation of evidence

 * Electronic presentation of evidence (EPE) has the potential to save huge amounts of time in fraud and other complex criminal trials and should be used more widely.

 * HMCS is providing facilities for the easier use of EPE with a standard audio visual facility. Effectively managed, the savings in court time achieved by EPE more than justify the cost.

 * There should still be a core bundle of those documents to which frequent reference will be made during the trial.

* The jury may wish to mark that bundle or to refer back to particular pages as the evidence progresses. EPE can be used for presenting all documents not contained in the core bundle.
Greater use of other modern forms of graphical presentations should be made wherever possible.


So realistically the EPE... should be used in:
Quote
Electronic presentation of evidence (EPE) has the potential to save huge amounts of time in fraud and other complex criminal trials and should be used more widely.

But... The prosecution twisted that and used "The Searches".. as their EPE... My God!!! When it's use is for fraud...


And just to take the absolute pisk.....

Quote
The jury may wish to mark that bundle or to refer back to particular pages as the evidence progresses. EPE can be used for presenting all documents not contained in the core bundle.

They actually get them to do this at trial........ Is this some sort of JOKE!!!!

Quote
At this point the jury on Wednesday morning 19 October 2011, were invited to write into
their copy of the prosecution chart where they see the words typed in by Tabak
‘definition’ before the words ‘sexual conduct’. The jury were invited to write the word
‘definition’, so that this entry is more accurate, the prosecution counsel Nigel Lickley said,
because these words were missed out when the prosecution constructed the chart of
evidence.

Arrrrrggggggg........

http://www.criminal-lawyer.org.uk/39-CLN-JAN-2012.pdf


http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/criminal/pd-protocol/pd_protocol

Offline [...]

Re: The Defence Will State Their Case
« Reply #288 on: July 14, 2017, 03:44:55 PM »
I'm going to review that post....

Offline [...]

Re: The Defence Will State Their Case
« Reply #289 on: July 15, 2017, 07:36:00 PM »
I've been reading some of Sally R's comments on this trial. Firstly she doesn't come across as a professional lawyer, member of ...... to me. It really is like reading something you or I would have written.

She also had VT at the bottom of Constitution Hill (will have to look up the page). Don't know what day, just that he was on his bike and there was snow. Constitution Hill was used as the hill start in car tests many decades ago when I took mine. It's very narrow purely residential and winds as well as being a s*d of a steep hill.

It is also directly opposite the Hope & Anchor, the pub where Greg and Joanna had their last lunch together.

I'm not taking what this woman says as so, its like the McCann files, read what's not written.

Ok... Nina... back to your Constitution Hill.... And Yes... How did he do it???

Quote
Timeline 45- Vincent Tabak’s journey home- 6.54 at Constitution Hill. Home just after
7pm by which time Tanja had already left. Text message to Tanja- ‘Just got home’.

Now this Hill is Big..... No way in the cold or even warm is he cycling up that hill...... It's a 1 in 6 gradient climb...

Quote
Why Park Street? It's the way to Cliftonwood, of course -and the hills there, starting with the one in six gradient climb that is Constitution Hill, and exploring a few more between the harbour and Clifton. Finally: up Bridge Valley Road to finish at the Downs,

I cannot see how Dr Vincent Tabak rode up Constitution Hill full stop.... never mind get back home just after 7:00 pm....from the start of that ride...  6:54pm.... Have you seen how steep that Hill is??? Maybe get home after 7:00 if he was driving.....  It take 4 minutes by car to drive from Constitution Hill to Canygne Road... Now way on God's earth did he cycle this route..... (IMO)...

Just after 7:00pm suggests a minute or two... well that would happen if the traffic is bad and the weather when driving.... Cycling..... Not Happening....

So yes Nina.... I don't believe he cycled to work never... never mind Constitution Hill..... The only sort of Bike that would get up Constitution Hill that fast is a "Motorbike".... Which gave me a flashback... of one of his work colleagues saying that he came to work in a leather fringed Jacket... (Wish I could find that article)..


http://bristolbybike.blogspot.co.uk/2009/11/b........-hills-of-north-bristol.html

http://www.criminal-lawyer.org.uk/39-CLN-JAN-2012.pdf

http://veloviewer.com/segment/994926/Constitution+Hill,+Bristol

[attachment deleted by admin]

Offline mrswah

  • Senior Moderator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1034
  • Total likes: 464
  • Thinking outside the box, as usual-------
Re: The Defence Will State Their Case
« Reply #290 on: July 15, 2017, 10:21:47 PM »
So, Nine--Again and Nina, how do you think VT got back from work on Friday 17th, just as a matter of interest?


Offline [...]

Re: The Defence Will State Their Case
« Reply #291 on: July 15, 2017, 10:38:27 PM »
So, Nine--Again and Nina, how do you think VT got back from work on Friday 17th, just as a matter of interest?


mrswah... I am not sure.... There's a number of possibilities...  I need to think about....

Offline nina

Re: The Defence Will State Their Case
« Reply #292 on: July 15, 2017, 10:43:59 PM »
So, Nine--Again and Nina, how do you think VT got back from work on Friday 17th, just as a matter of interest?



I think he cycled. Temple Meads station has a shed for bikes and as Chris Jefferies has said VT cycled to work in all weathers. VT seems to have been an incredibly fit person IMO, so I suppose riding back using the route he seems to have used he could have been home within half an hour IMO.

Offline [...]

Re: The Defence Will State Their Case
« Reply #293 on: July 15, 2017, 11:11:22 PM »
I think he cycled. Temple Meads station has a shed for bikes and as Chris Jefferies has said VT cycled to work in all weathers. VT seems to have been an incredibly fit person IMO, so I suppose riding back using the route he seems to have used he could have been home within half an hour IMO.

But you mentioned Constitution Hill... The Dutch don't like Hills.... My brother inlaw doesn't like to walk up a hill...

We have things that imply that Dr Vincent Tabak cycled to the station... But nothing definate ... We have the Stereotypical Dutchman...We have The mention of the 'cycle bag"... and ... Cycling basically mentioned in court.... But was it accurate????

Quote
Timeline 45- Vincent Tabak’s journey home- 6.54 at Constitution Hill. Home just after
7pm by which time Tanja had already left. Text message to Tanja- ‘Just got home’.

Now how do "The Defence " know that as a time ????? Is it a rough guess.... Or was The car seen by traffic Cams near that area ???? All Dr Vincent Tabaks' timings are done through "texts".. emails... internet use (apparently)..  And he being caught on some sort of CCTV....

So on that evidence he was in a car.... (IMO).... (I might change my mind)...

Quote
Defence Counsel: Turn to entry 11.
‘Entry 11- seen past the flat at 9.05 where Tanya had already left for work in a lift-share’.
Text message from Tabak: ‘Love you’.
Text answer from Tanja: Love you too. Pretty snow.

Here we have Tanja's Lift share.... I knew i had read that before !!!!!

Then.....
Quote
Defence Counsel: Let us look at your movements on Friday 17 December:
Time line 11- left for work
Timeline 12- Cycled to Bristol T Stn
Timeline 13- Train to bath
Timeline 16- Arrive Bath 9.41

It's the defence saying he cycled to work.... But did he ???

Quote
Defence Counsel: What time do you leave for work?
Tabak: 9.00 am.

I'm changing my mind... maybe he walked....  Train from Temple Meade  leaves at 9:25am arriving at 9:42am

He walked !!Being picked up on CCTV from a business on Jacob Wells Road which runs at the bottom... I believe of Constitution Hill....  A business like "The Hope and Anchor" which is at 38, Jacob's Well Road !!

They have to have CCTV images of Dr Vincent Tabak to put him anywhere near Constitution Hill... And all of there other CCTV images come from pubs and shops!!!


He walked.... and probably in his leather Jacket.....




http://www.criminal-lawyer.org.uk/39-CLN-JAN-2012.pdf

Offline [...]

Re: The Defence Will State Their Case
« Reply #294 on: July 15, 2017, 11:30:03 PM »
Here you go.... A Google Map image showing how close The Hope and Anchor Pub is to the bottom of Constitution Hill.....


Also picture of Hope And Anchor with CCTV camera above main window ....

But even if the defence say he cycled ... which I cannot see.... why go the route via Constitution Hill????

Image 3 is a direct route for a journey from the station to Canygne Road....

Why are they putting Dr Vincent Tabak in the Vacinity of a Pub that Joanna Yeates went to at lunch time on that day????  That is weird !!!!!!!

Quote
Friday December 17, 12.50pm: Miss Yeates and Mr Reardon, who both work for design consultancy BDP in Bristol, have lunch together at the Hope and Anchor near their offices. Joanna eats cheesy chips. Sadly it turns out to be her last meal.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/joanna-yeates-murder-timeline-of-events-2377178.html


[attachment deleted by admin]

Offline [...]

Re: The Defence Will State Their Case
« Reply #295 on: July 15, 2017, 11:39:56 PM »
Quote
Friday December 17, 12.50pm: Miss Yeates and Mr Reardon, who both work for design consultancy BDP in Bristol, have lunch together at the Hope and Anchor near their offices. Joanna eats cheesy chips. Sadly it turns out to be her last meal.


Hope and Anchor.... Jacob Well's Road Is no where near their Office !

Hang on a minute.... How did they have time for lunch ???? were they working that day ???? It's miles away! Apparently they walked to work that morning....

Edit... I believe the map is inaccurate sorry...  Just discovered that this morning....

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/joanna-yeates-murder-timeline-of-events-2377178.html

http://www.bdp.com/globalassets/_documents/studio-directions/bristol.pdf

Offline mrswah

  • Senior Moderator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1034
  • Total likes: 464
  • Thinking outside the box, as usual-------
Re: The Defence Will State Their Case
« Reply #296 on: July 15, 2017, 11:42:18 PM »
If he walked fast, it would take him nearly 45 minutes, at medium pace nearly an hour. I don't believe it! Even he could not do that walk in 25 minutes: it is a long way.

Why would he need to lie about cycling?  Had he been caught on CCTV on foot, that would, I assume, have been pointed out by somebody.

The police would have checked the time he texted Tanja to say he had just got home.

Offline mrswah

  • Senior Moderator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1034
  • Total likes: 464
  • Thinking outside the box, as usual-------
Re: The Defence Will State Their Case
« Reply #297 on: July 15, 2017, 11:47:29 PM »
I think he cycled. Temple Meads station has a shed for bikes and as Chris Jefferies has said VT cycled to work in all weathers. VT seems to have been an incredibly fit person IMO, so I suppose riding back using the route he seems to have used he could have been home within half an hour IMO.

I would agree.

Offline [...]

Re: The Defence Will State Their Case
« Reply #298 on: July 15, 2017, 11:51:48 PM »
If he walked fast, it would take him nearly 45 minutes, at medium pace nearly an hour. I don't believe it! Even he could not do that walk in 25 minutes: it is a long way.

Why would he need to lie about cycling?  Had he been caught on CCTV on foot, that would, I assume, have been pointed out by somebody.

The police would have checked the time he texted Tanja to say he had just got home.

Fair point.... But I'm now puzzled why Joanna Yeates went to The Hope and Anchor for her lunch... when it's a long way away from her Office ....!!!

Maybe Vincent Tabak Car shared.... Maybe he drove.....


ok... he leaves work at 6:00pm gets the 18:07pm or 18:16pm being the fast train... both get him to bristol at 6:30 ish...  Going to the bottom of Jacob Wells Road... by car can take anything up to 14 mins....

So CCTV image is of the car!!... possibly...

But why is Joanna Yeates at Jacob Wells Road at lunch Time .... ????

Where are any images of Dr Vincent Tabak riding his bicycle on the 17th December 2010 !!!!!!!

We are deciding he leaves work straight away.... we don't know this .... There is a later train at 18:30 getting into temple mead at 18:44pm... giving him 11 mins to get to Constitution Hill... which is timed at 6:54pm...


Edit.... Which also may lend to the fact that the car was on the road and not the drive... Knowing he would be leaving later on to collect Tanja from the party...

Double Edit.... Why would Dr Vincent Tabak.. either Drive or Cycle via Constitution Hill???? Doesn't make sense to me !!!!

Offline [...]

Re: The Defence Will State Their Case
« Reply #299 on: July 16, 2017, 12:27:19 AM »
Sticking with Hope and Anchor:


31st December 2010 Reported:

Quote
Miss Yeates had had lunch with Mr Reardon on the day she vanished.
They had met at the Hope and Anchor, a mile from their home

This report again 31st December 2010.

Quote
The 25-year-old and her boyfriend Greg Reardon, 27, dined on cheesy chips and cola drinks at their local pub, the Hope and Anchor, before he left to visit his half-brother, Francis, in Sheffield on December 17.

The landlord of The pub says :

Quote
Barman Jack Carrington, 23, who was working at the pub which is just a mile from the flat the couple rented in Bristol, said: “Joanna came in at about 12.30pm with her boyfriend.

He further states :
Quote
“It was really busy as we had a lot of Christmas parties in, so they sat in the corner on a small table. They only stayed about 20 minutes.


And then contradicts himself when he says ....
Quote
“I didn’t see them leave because it was so busy – but when I looked over later they were gone. I don’t think I spoke to her because it was so busy.

Again in the next breath he says:
Quote
“She comes in a lot – especially with her boyfriend – on Friday afternoons. We make conversation with her and she always seems happy – most of the staff recognise her. They are polite but keep themselves to themselves.’’
Friday afternoons... suggests a later time than "Lunch"... ...

So what time did they go to The Hope and Anchor????



https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/220303/Joanna-Yeates-last-meal-with-boyfriend-at-favourite-local-pub

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/8232412/Joanna-Yeates-murder-suspect-Christopher-Jefferies-let-himself-into-tenants-flat.html