Author Topic: Bad Character Evidence  (Read 1578 times)

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Offline mrswah

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Re: Bad Character Evidence
« Reply #15 on: April 05, 2017, 12:47:53 AM »
I think you are stretching the argument just a tad to suggest that Vincent Tabak couldn't be a killer because he attained a PHD. Similarly, there are many cases of doctors and nurses who have committed murder.


I agree. Stephen Griffiths (the "Crossbow Cannibal" killer) was studying for a PhD.


Offline Leonora

Re: Bad Character Evidence
« Reply #16 on: April 05, 2017, 07:01:56 AM »
I think you are stretching the argument just a tad to suggest that Vincent Tabak couldn't be a killer because he attained a PHD. Similarly, there are many cases of doctors and nurses who have committed murder.
His PhD is the very first fact about him that makes it very improbable that Vincent Tabak could be a killer. That is commonsense.

From the point of view of a criminal trial, his PhD was the only part of the evidence for his good character (that was never put to the jury as such), just as the public was told to intepret the allegations of porn viewing and call-girl sex as evidence of "bad character".

Murder committed by doctors and nurses committing murder is similarly so unusual that these few (not "many" as you claim) cases were sensational (and their convictions in each case doubtful). They also knew their supposed victims beforehand.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2017, 07:23:04 AM by Leonora »

Offline Leonora

Re: Bad Character Evidence
« Reply #17 on: April 05, 2017, 07:08:29 AM »
I agree. Stephen Griffiths (the "Crossbow Cannibal" killer) was studying for a PhD.
Was Stephen Griffiths a placid, generally happy person, with no history of violence nor of harassment of women, and with a brother and sister who insisted that he was so gentle that he could never hurt a fly? Was he in a stable relationship with a girl whom he expected to marry? What was his motive for murder?
« Last Edit: April 05, 2017, 08:44:00 AM by Leonora »

Offline ......

Re: Bad Character Evidence
« Reply #18 on: April 05, 2017, 10:09:32 AM »

I agree. Stephen Griffiths (the "Crossbow Cannibal" killer) was studying for a PhD.

Yes mrswah... But was Stephen Griffiths "A Placid Individual " to deal with?????

What did Stephen Griffiths have a PHD in????

Offline ......

Re: Bad Character Evidence
« Reply #19 on: April 05, 2017, 10:20:28 AM »
So as for Dr Vincent Tabak's Bad Character....

Wouldn't that have been an ideal opportunity for the prosecution to file out the long line of females whom had been harrassed , propositioned.. by Dr Vincent Tabak, to show that, it was quite normal for him to see if his luck was in with the ladies!!

Offline mrswah

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Re: Bad Character Evidence
« Reply #20 on: April 05, 2017, 10:37:34 AM »
So as for Dr Vincent Tabak's Bad Character....

Wouldn't that have been an ideal opportunity for the prosecution to file out the long line of females whom had been harrassed , propositioned.. by Dr Vincent Tabak, to show that, it was quite normal for him to see if his luck was in with the ladies!!

Indeed. If there were any, I'm sure they would have come forward, and sold their stories to the tabloids.  Therefore, I don't believe there were any. No doubt, he had done some (legal) porn-watching, but I cannot believe in the indecent images of children. Nor can I believe in the blonde girl with a pink top tied up in a car boot "inspiring" him to go and kill Joanna. How would he have known that Joanna would be wearing a pink top, anyway???

Offline mrswah

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Re: Bad Character Evidence
« Reply #21 on: April 05, 2017, 10:45:41 AM »
Was Stephen Griffiths a placid, generally happy person, with no history of violence nor of harassment of women, and with a brother and sister who insisted that he was so gentle that he could never hurt a fly? Was he in a stable relationship with a girl whom he expected to marry? What was his motive for murder?

No, Stephen Griffiths is nothing like VT, and I would describe him as somebody one wouldn't particularly want to know much about!!  I am not even sure he ever finished his PhD---I was just illustrating the fact that it is perfectly possible for a highly educated person to commit murder. It is, quite possibly, unusual, but it's possible, and it happens.
I would like to think that a parent could not murder his or her own child, but some do.
I would like to think that religious clergy could not possibly be involved in sexual abuse, but many have been.
I would like to think that a wealthy person would not fiddle his or her taxes, that a police officer would not tell lies, that a prosecution lawyer would never hide anything from the defence. The list could go on and on.




Offline ......

Re: Bad Character Evidence
« Reply #22 on: April 05, 2017, 10:59:36 AM »
No, Stephen Griffiths is nothing like VT, and I would describe him as somebody one wouldn't particularly want to know much about!!  I am not even sure he ever finished his PhD---I was just illustrating the fact that it is perfectly possible for a highly educated person to commit murder. It is, quite possibly, unusual, but it's possible, and it happens.
I would like to think that a parent could not murder his or her own child, but some do.
I would like to think that religious clergy could not possibly be involved in sexual abuse, but many have been.
I would like to think that a wealthy person would not fiddle his or her taxes, that a police officer would not tell lies, that a prosecution lawyer would never hide anything from the defence. The list could go on and on.

I get the picture mrswah.... you nearly had a long post like me with your list  ?{)(**

Yes but there should have been some indication before hand that Dr Vincent Tabak had these proclivaties... There is NO evidence to even suggest that... not even a sniff....

Did he have a bang on the head, a brain injury... that would show maybe a reason for the change in his behaviour... I personally cannot see in an OPEN office how Dr Vincent Tabak was supposed to have viewed PORN on his works computer.... too many people around, and if this was the case why were they NOT in court!!!

Did his  WORK COMPUTER even allow access to SUCH sites??????? I doubt that very much!!!! But yet they say that is where he looked at porn site.... Another UNTRUE (IMO)!!!!!!

Offline mrswah

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Re: Bad Character Evidence
« Reply #23 on: April 05, 2017, 11:13:01 AM »
Interestingly enough (very slightly off topic, but not very), as I have been reading all the old Joanna Yeates Case fora, I have come across several posters who believe that VT's job as a "people flow analyst" would have taught him how to stalk women, and how to plant a secret camera in Joanna's flat, so that he could spy on her!!!!!

As far as I am aware, people flow analysts spend most of their time in front of a computer.

Offline ......

Re: Bad Character Evidence
« Reply #24 on: April 05, 2017, 11:19:37 AM »
Interestingly enough (very slightly off topic, but not very), as I have been reading all the old Joanna Yeates Case fora, I have come across several posters who believe that VT's job as a "people flow analyst" would have taught him how to stalk women, and how to plant a secret camera in Joanna's flat, so that he could spy on her!!!!!

As far as I am aware, people flow analysts spend most of their time in front of a computer.

But there was NO evidence of a camera being planted..

He's into how people move around a building, NOT attacking someone in a confined space.... Now if he had taken her to an empty building and made her walk around it... I may start to believe some of the codswallop that has been spoken in this case!!!

Offline Angelo222

Re: Bad Character Evidence
« Reply #25 on: April 05, 2017, 12:44:18 PM »
His PhD is the very first fact about him that makes it very improbable that Vincent Tabak could be a killer. That is commonsense.

From the point of view of a criminal trial, his PhD was the only part of the evidence for his good character (that was never put to the jury as such), just as the public was told to intepret the allegations of porn viewing and call-girl sex as evidence of "bad character".

Murder committed by doctors and nurses committing murder is similarly so unusual that these few (not "many" as you claim) cases were sensational (and their convictions in each case doubtful). They also knew their supposed victims beforehand.

That's funny Leonora, you judge Tabak's moral compass by his educational qualifications.
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Offline Leonora

Re: Bad Character Evidence
« Reply #26 on: April 05, 2017, 01:35:41 PM »
That's funny Leonora, you judge Tabak's moral compass by his educational qualifications.
That's not funny, Angelo222, it's plain old-fashioned commonsense. Everyone except you and, apparently, John would draw exactly the same conclusion as I have done, except when brainwashed by the reporting of the Joanna Yeates case.

Offline mrswah

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Re: Bad Character Evidence
« Reply #27 on: April 05, 2017, 01:55:35 PM »
But there was NO evidence of a camera being planted..

He's into how people move around a building, NOT attacking someone in a confined space.... Now if he had taken her to an empty building and made her walk around it... I may start to believe some of the codswallop that has been spoken in this case!!!

Exactly---it's a load of rubbish!

I was pointing out how a lot of people have the wrong impression about what a people flow analyst does. I suppose one doesn't come across them very often!

Offline Leonora

Re: Bad Character Evidence
« Reply #28 on: August 27, 2017, 10:10:23 AM »
For the record:

http://swns.com/news/vincent-tabak-murderer-used-us-hookers-weeks-before-killing-jo-yeates-21404/

http://swns.com/news/vincent-tabak-murderer-watched-fetish-porn-before-killing-jo-yeates-21401/

No actual witnesses are named in either of these reports, so the allegations remain hearsay. The conversations described in court do not constitute evidence.

Offline AerialHunter

Re: Bad Character Evidence
« Reply #29 on: November 26, 2017, 10:02:32 AM »
The simple fact that the police continued to spend time and money researching Tabak after his conviction and sentencing rather indicates that by his admission of manslaughter he actually stuffed the inquiry. This degree of  police petulance had to be reason why they searched for anything that they could use to justify dragging him back before the courts. Was the real intent to get him to change his plea so they could continue the inquiry or was it just to protect there own arses if the truth about Yeates’s death surfaced some time later? Whatever it was they needed to get at Tabak again, but they couldn’t go near him once he was inside, they had to leave him well alone.

Desperation methinks.

AH
There is none so noble or in receipt of his fellows unbridled adulation as that police officer who willingly deceives to protect one of his own kind and, by virtue of birthright, extends that privilege to his family.