Scene Of Crime Reconstruction

[Myster]

Blimey, check out Annie Oakley!!  (Putting her prints all over the gun....)

Yup, pardner.... but darnit, she wiped 'em all off after her sharpshootin' session! 

[Holly Goodhead]

Holly, just because the bed is 78" long doesn't mean that Nevill was lying flat with his head jammed up against the headboard... Geez!!! He was probably leaning forward about to get out of bed because he was aware that he was going to be shot. The rifle could have been held, not in the conventional way with butt end up against the assailant's shoulder, but with its body thrust forward and muzzle close to Nevill's face. No need therefore for any 11" gap.  It's so easy to imagine, I can't understand why you don't see that. You're too reliant on perfect precision and measurements which are way off the mark.

There was no blood on the bedding maybe because, unlike June, he was only shot twice and was quicker to get up and out of the room. But even if there was the odd spot or two, either forensics missed it or the police burned the relevant sheet(s) with the stains.

As for the two shoulder and arm wounds, if you insist that they occurred with the perp standing in the doorway, or on the landing, or on the winders, while Nevill was going downstairs, then you could easily substitute JB for SC with the same result.

I only had time first thing the morning to answer your first para:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8094.msg406792#msg406792

DC Hammersley told the court at trial everything of evidential value was removed from the bed:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=165.0;attach=223

Dr Vanezis told the court at trial the area of NB's face where the gsw's hit contained a rich blood supply:

See attached

I'll put my guilty hat on for a moment as I can see you lot need a hand    Exit wounds produce more blood than entry wounds 

I've always said if experts can show NB sustained his upstairs gsw's on the landing stairs and/or main stairs it doesn't rule out SC or JB.  All it can do is lend support to JB's claims of a phone call from NB.  And show how incompetent and negligent JB's defence were in not advancing this at trial and appeal hearings.

[Myster]

11" is the approx distance of the shot not a gap.  MF estimated the distance of NB's facial shots at "within inches" of his skin.  Had I have used 6" it would mean the perp would need to hang over the bed further with or without rifle!  Anyway NB with his head on the pillow wouldn't work without the perp holding the rifle at a vertical drop over NB's face since the track of the wounds went from front to back. 

Ok so NB was sitting up either fully or partially putting his face around the middle of the bed 39".  I'll reduce the distance of shot to 6".  39" + 6" = 45".  Rifle = 43".  Still means perp would need to hang over the bed with or without rifle.  How did NB then manage to push past perp and sustain the GSW's to his shoulder and elbow/graze?  If you think the casings by the door pertain to June's GSW's to the head where are the casings for NB's shoulder and elbow/chest GSW's?   

No need for the perp to hang over the bed. Imagine the model's upper body and/or head turned towards the shooter, then the two trajectories would match the direction in the autopsy diagram. (Sorry, can't rotate the model's head).

Ejected casings hit the wall, rebound off it onto the floor on June's side, or land on the bedding and drop onto the floor as she gets up.

[Holly Goodhead]

No need for the perp to hang over the bed. Imagine the model's upper body and/or head turned towards the shooter, then the two trajectories would match the direction in the autopsy diagram. (Sorry, can't rotate the model's head).

Ejected casings hit the wall, rebound off it onto the floor on June's side, or land on the bedding and drop onto the floor as she gets up.

Are you suggesting the perp was stood at the bottom of the bed?  If so I doubt the casings would hit the back wall by the top of bed since according to MF's trial testimony they travel up to 4' or 48".  A standard double bed is 75" long.   

NB was 6'4" tall.  Dr Vanezis put the trajectories of the facial gsw's at 20 degrees below the horizontal.  Would this fit with NB sat on the bed and the perp stood around the foot of the bed?  JB 6'0".  SC 5'7.5".  I think the trajectories would be > 20 degrees below the horizontal?

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=205.0;attach=724 

http://www.firstinarchitecture.co.uk/average-heights-dimensions-of-person-sitting/
 

[adam]

It seems the claim is Sheila was in the bedroom when shooting Nevill. Standing just inside the bedroom door.

Nevill was coming upstairs & got to within inches of the rifle end before being shot in the face. He then retreated back down stairs.

The reason the casings are so deep inside the bedroom is because they ejected several feet to the rifles right and bounced off the wall with great venom.

Hopefully David will provide his sources that casings from that rifle eject to the right with great force. Also that they bounce off walls with equal force. At the moment he has just posted his own diagrams as sources. 

[Holly Goodhead]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yZ8lDUE9RNg

[Holly Goodhead]

David I will take the opportunity here to remind you of a previous post:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6883.msg294289#msg294289

Please consider the environment, location of casings and distance of shots.

[adam]

David I will take the opportunity here to remind you of a previous post:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6883.msg294289#msg294289

Please consider the environment, location of casings and distance of shots.

David provided a source in 2015 when saying the casings eject forward.

So far he has not provided a contradictory source that the casings actually eject sideways to the right and bounce strongly off walls. Although he has created a diagram showing this occurring.  After realising the casings moving forward do not support his choosen view of Sheila shooting Nevill from the bedroom door.

It seems he is randomly changing the lenght, direction & bouncability of the shell casings until it matches his claim that Sheila shot Nevill from the bedroom door. Using his own diagrams as his chosen source.

An independent source is required that the casing trajectories from the murder weapon are to the right & bounce strongly off walls. Otherwise his source provided in 2015 showing the bullet casings moving forward will have to be accepted and his recent right/bouncing casing theory rejected.

[david1819]

What has June carrying her bible with her when she walked around the bed got to do with my reconstruction based on NB sustaining his gsw's on the landing stairs and/or main stairs?  When I first mooted the latter Dec 2015 I don't recall you contributing anything positive to the thread other than facetious comments....

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6883.msg293857#msg293857

What is wrong with providing alternative possibilities? no matter how unlikely. Its important to consider IMO.

What has happened to your other pet projects:

- 'Forensic evidence breakthrough'
- A pattern you believe you can see on SC's neck representing the threaded end of the barrel
- SC's TOD taking place when JB was outside with EP based on lividity, wet blood photos etc
- Marks on NB's arm(s) you believe were caused by fingernails

My guess is you realise they are not capable of being advanced in any shape or form so you've latched onto my soc reconstruction.   

The first two are being looked into. Ive passed them onto to those who can actually make something happen from them. What more can I do? I have done all I can as for as those are concerned.

TOD based on lividity, wet blood photos etc. I've never been given a credible argument to invalidate the idea. As it stands I have nothing more to do. CCRC have already got an answer/excuse for it.

Marks on NB's arm caused by fingernails. Not my idea or project. Its already been submitted back in 2004.

BTW this whole effort/investigation in my mind is to establish facts and help correct possible injustice. Its not a competition of who thought of what first. So stop being catty.

[david1819]

Are you suggesting the perp was stood at the bottom of the bed?  If so I doubt the casings would hit the back wall by the top of bed since according to MF's trial testimony they travel up to 4' or 48".  A standard double bed is 75" long.   

NB was 6'4" tall.  Dr Vanezis put the trajectories of the facial gsw's at 20 degrees below the horizontal.  Would this fit with NB sat on the bed and the perp stood around the foot of the bed?  JB 6'0".  SC 5'7.5".  I think the trajectories would be > 20 degrees below the horizontal?

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=205.0;attach=724 

http://www.firstinarchitecture.co.uk/average-heights-dimensions-of-person-sitting/

BTW I recreated the shots to Nevill via the anatomical position. Thought this would help. Beats the drawings made back in 1986.

[david1819]

David, where are you getting 6' from and sideways? 

Adam put those words in my mouth.

You need to consider whether the collision (casing hitting wall) is an elastic or inelastic collision and I think the angle also affects the outcome. 

https://www.khanacademy.org/science/physics/linear-momentum/elastic-and-inelastic-collisions/v/elastic-and-inelastic-collisions

No I don't. Shell casings can and do bounce/richocet. Iv given you several forensic studies on this already. Maybe you have to see it to believe it?

[adam]

Adam put those words in my mouth.

No I don't. Shell casings can and do bounce/richocet. Iv given you several forensic studies on this already. Maybe you have to see it to believe it?

"For what its worth. The theory is Neville retreats holding the wounds just inflicted. This then puts the shoulder into a perfect location for the shot from above to be inflicted.

The shell casings eject forward and can travel up to six feet (apparently). Three of them bounce off the bedroom wall and onto the floor were found (as demonstrated). The one found on the stairs got passed the wall and onto the stairs were it was found."

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,8281.0.html

David posted the above in reply 309 of the linked thread. And attached a diagram. So not sure why he's saying I "put those words in my mouth".

[adam]

Anyway David has today again used his own diagram as a source that the casings eject sideways and bounce off walls.

It has to be concluded that shell casings don't travel sideways and bounce off walls.

His 2015 independent source of the casings ejecting forward  has to be used. Although this source does not confirm casings travel up to 6 feet forward.

This makes it impossible that Sheila was shooting a coming up the stairs Nevill from the bedroom door. As the four forward travelling casings would all be in the hallway or on the stairs.

The killer & Nevill must have both been deep inside the bedroom when firing/receiving shots.

[Caroline]

Adam put those words in my mouth.

No I don't. Shell casings can and do bounce/richocet. Iv given you several forensic studies on this already. Maybe you have to see it to believe it?

What calibre weapon is that?

[david1819]

What calibre weapon is that?

.22 LR rimfire

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walther_P22