Scene Of Crime Reconstruction

[Holly Goodhead]

At LAST he's got it!! By George, he's got it!!! Sheila HAD the benefit? of a stupefying agent -HALOPERIDOL, no less- which assisted Jeremy's dispatching of her to a better world

I think many have suggested SC was forced to ingest a substance to stupify her but toxiciology tests show this was not the case.  In fact Dr Vanezis held off compiling his autopsy report for toxicology test results as he thought had JB been guilty, as mooted, it would require a stupefied SC to comply with the soc.

Toxicology test results showed a mere trace of cannabis and 15ng of Haloperidol per 1 mg of blood.  The latter put SC in the low range of a moderate dose of Haloperidol so no stupefying. 

[Holly Goodhead]

*SPOILER ALERT*

If I were them I'd redecorate the stairwell with some bouncy foam-backed wallpaper so any experimental casings would rebound to some other place than your beloved DRH13 and 14.

Lol I was thinking similar 

[Myster]

I think the instinctive thing would be to turn away from gunfire but I can't see how this was possible for NB if he was in bed.

For the first two mouth/jaw shots, Nevill was lying prone in bed with head raised and facing the shooter who was obviously in a higher position at the foot end. No blood on the bed clothes as it was too early to start flowing enough, when he realised what was happening and had to get up sharpish.

For the other two shots, if he was sat on the bed about to get out, the first bullet hitting his left elbow which caused the arm to jump upwards leaving the shoulder in position for an almost vertical second shot (Samson's patented arm-jerk reflex theory). Or he might have been holding his left hand up to staunch the mouth wounds which would bring his arm up to a similar position.

[APRIL]

For the first two mouth/jaw shots, Nevill was lying prone in bed with head raised and facing the shooter who was obviously in a higher position at the foot end. No blood on the bed clothes as it was too early to start flowing enough, when he realised what was happening and had to get up sharpish.

For the other two shots, if he was sat on the bed about to get out, the first bullet hitting his left elbow which caused the arm to jump upwards leaving the shoulder in position for an almost vertical second shot (Samson's patented arm-jerk reflex theory). Or he might have been holding his left hand up to staunch the mouth wounds which would bring his arm up to a similar position.

And if anyone could make a phone call after those injuries they're a better man than I, Gunga Din.

[Holly Goodhead]

For the first two mouth/jaw shots, Nevill was lying prone in bed with head raised and facing the shooter who was obviously in a higher position at the foot end. No blood on the bed clothes as it was too early to start flowing enough, when he realised what was happening and had to get up sharpish.

For the other two shots, if he was sat on the bed about to get out, the first bullet hitting his left elbow which caused the arm to jump upwards leaving the shoulder in position for an almost vertical second shot (Samson's patented arm-jerk reflex theory). Or he might have been holding his left hand up to staunch the mouth wounds which would bring his arm up to a similar position.

NB was 6' 4".  A standard double bed is 6'3" long and a queen and king 6'6" long.  I think we can assume the bed in the master bedroom at WHF was queen or king.  The rifle was 43" long and silencer 7" long.  According to Malcolm Fletcher the gsw's inflicted to NB's lip and jaw were fired "when the rifle was within a few inches of the skin".  This would mean the perp would need to hang over the end of the bed to inflict the facial shots.  I don't see how NB was then able to swing around and expose his shoulder and elbow/chest in order to sustain the gsw's to these areas of his body.  It would also mean the perp would need to relocate further away from the bed since these gsw's were inflicted when the rifle "was at least two feet from the body".

It is unclear whether June sustained 5 or 6 gsw's whilst in bed and getting out of.  Even if we assume 5 only 8 casings were found either on the bed or to June's side of the bed.  If NB was shot 4 x's whilst in bed and getting out of where is the missing 9th casing: 5 x June and 4 x NB?

Taking into consideration blood staining from June and SC's gsw's is it realistic to think NB's gsw's didn't produce any evidence of blood until he arrived on the stairs?  Especially when the pathologist referred to the facial wounds as sites with a rich blood supply?  Why ddidn't defence counsel ask the question...'could NB have sustained these wounds in the bedroom and left without a trace of blood until arriving on the stairs'?  See attached.

 

[John]

Samson, John isn't stupid! Of COURSE "an unknown substance" wasn't Haloperidol. From where would Jeremy have purchased Haloperidol? I can think of a couple of substances which COULD have been administered and MAY have been found on the farm. One being carbon tetrachloride the other being ammonia, both used for cleaning purposes and both requiring only the tiniest amount to cause a few seconds loss of consciousness.

Indeed April, there were literally dozens of household chemicals freely available on the market back in 1985 which were capable of knocking someone out almost instantly. 

[John]

With respect John, I have read your reconstruction that seems to require the introduction of a stupifying agent to manage Sheila's delivery to a better world.

Everyone who has looked at the original photos agrees that Sheila did not have a look of fear or shock on her face which could only have meant one thing. Jeremy Bamber knew very well that with three adults in the house as well as the twins that he had to overpower Sheila early on if his planned murder/suicide was to succeed.  His plan therefore required that he take Sheila out first by rendering her unconscious and then launch a full frontal assault on the master bedroom by blasting both his parents in the head.  To his surprise it failed and he had to retreat in order to get more ammunition allowing Nevill time to regain his composure and follow him down the stairs followed by the fight for the rifle over the kitchen table.

This is the only possible scenario which fits with the facts.

[John]

The CCRC wield considerable investigatory power.  They exercised such when they ordered WHF to be opened up to seek DNA evidence from bloodstained floorboards in the late 90's/early noughties for JB's 2002 appeal (on the basis all other exhibits had been destroyed).  AE and family may be required to once again open up WHF to aid a reconstruction eg laser measuring devices.

I doubt it very much Holly.  This case is dead and buried as far as the CCRC is concerned.

[John]

I think the instinctive thing would be to turn away from gunfire but I can't see how this was possible for NB if he was in bed.

I don't believe he was shot in bed but on his feet facing Bamber just inside the main bedroom door.  It is a natural instinct to put ones arms up and turn if confronted by a gunman.

[John]

I think many have suggested SC was forced to ingest a substance to stupify her but toxiciology tests show this was not the case.  In fact Dr Vanezis held off compiling his autopsy report for toxicology test results as he thought had JB been guilty, as mooted, it would require a stupefied SC to comply with the soc.

Toxicology test results showed a mere trace of cannabis and 15ng of Haloperidol per 1 mg of blood.  The latter put SC in the low range of a moderate dose of Haloperidol so no stupefying.

I agree thus why something akin to ammonia or methane was used, is undetectable after the event and leaves no traces.

[APRIL]

Indeed April, there were literally dozens of household chemicals freely available on the market back in 1985 which were capable of knocking someone out almost instantly.

And would have been undetectable. Any material used to apply it could have gone in the Aga and just to keep Samson happy, the applicator found downstairs was minus it's tampon which COULD have been used to administer any chemical used?

[Myster]

I agree thus why something akin to ammonia or methane was used, is undetectable after the event and leaves no traces.

Wouldn't ammonia leave burn marks on the skin around her mouth and nose and be detectable by police or Vanezis?

Methane is a gas, disperses instantly and needs the guile of a Crippen to administer.

Unless chloroform was readily available in '85, I don't think he would have the nous to make it from household bleach and nail-varnish remover (acetone), and we didn't have the luxury of YouTube then to demonstrate how either.

[John]

Wouldn't ammonia leave burn marks on the skin around her mouth and nose and be detectable by police or Vanezis?

Methane is a gas, disperses instantly and needs the guile of a Crippen to administer.

Unless chloroform was readily available in '85, I don't think he would have the nous to make it from household bleach and nail-varnish remover (acetone), and we didn't have the luxury of YouTube then to demonstrate how either.

Any noxious substance used in concentration form will leave burn marks if applied directly but it would have taken very little odour to have knocked Sheila out.  Have you ever used oven cleaner?  A very short whiff of that stuff will instantly take your breath away so its not a good idea to stick ones head in an oven after applying oven cleaner.

[Holly Goodhead]

I don't believe he was shot in bed but on his feet facing Bamber just inside the main bedroom door.  It is a natural instinct to put ones arms up and turn if confronted by a gunman.

But the 2 facial shots are difficult to reconcile with the trajectories if NB and JB were stood at the same level.

[Myster]

Any noxious substance used in concentration form will leave burn marks if applied directly but it would have taken very little odour to have knocked Sheila out.  Have you ever used oven cleaner?  A very short whiff of that stuff will instantly take your breath away so its not a good idea to stick ones head in an oven after applying oven cleaner.

Yep, I've done that too... luckily the gas was also turned off at the same time!