Author Topic: What Happened To Madeleine McCann? - by Ian Horrocks.  (Read 71109 times)

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Offline Brietta

Re: What Happened To Madeleine McCann? - by Ian Horrocks.
« Reply #60 on: May 07, 2017, 02:49:07 PM »
If I were sceptical to that extent I would find it extremely coincidental that Gerry just happened to be in the apartment moments before a guy was seen carrying off a young girl a few yards up the street.  Had Gerry not stopped Jez Wilkins he would have walked right into that mystery man.  Was that a coincidence too??

Did Jane Tanner ruin it??

I don't think there was any chance of Gerry and the man seen carrying the child encountering each other.  They were heading away from each other. Gerry downhill and back to the tapas the carrier behind him heading to where is anyone's guess.

More likely the carrier waited for Gerry to leave the apartment to make his move in the full expectation hat Gerry would be back in the tapas. 
Jez was the one change from other nights that an observer would not expect.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2017, 02:52:18 PM by Brietta »
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Alfie

  • Guest
Re: What Happened To Madeleine McCann? - by Ian Horrocks.
« Reply #61 on: May 07, 2017, 04:29:09 PM »
Very easy really.

If there was no abduction, where does it leave the McCann's ?
Still without Madeleine, still utterly bereft, still haunted with guilt for leaving her alone I expect.  But I'm still not entirely sure what you're driving at.  Do you think they'd go to prison if it was established that she woke up and fell down a hole?

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: What Happened To Madeleine McCann? - by Ian Horrocks.
« Reply #62 on: May 07, 2017, 04:48:20 PM »
No more than they do already, unless you mean that they deliberately hid her body after an accident.  If they sincerely believed Madeleine was abducted (impossible to prove they don't and their view has been shared by numerous professionals including it seems both current police forces investigating the disappearance)then there is no issue with the Fund, just as there is no issue with the Fund set up to find Ben Needham, despite the fact that the police believe he wandered off.

As I have said before Alfie, bar a confession, assuming a crime was committed, we will probably never know the truth.

Alfie

  • Guest
Re: What Happened To Madeleine McCann? - by Ian Horrocks.
« Reply #63 on: May 07, 2017, 04:52:08 PM »
As I have said before Alfie, bar a confession, assuming a crime was committed, we will probably never know the truth.
I wouldn't disagree with you there.

Offline slartibartfast

Re: What Happened To Madeleine McCann? - by Ian Horrocks.
« Reply #64 on: May 07, 2017, 05:56:29 PM »
There is only one solution in my opinion - Tracker dogs suggest she wandered
Cadaver dog suggest a dead body was in the apartment.
Solution the dead body was not Madeleine.  Madeleine was abducted from the road.

Cadaver dog alerted in the apartment unknown as to how the scent got there.
“Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired”.

Offline Brietta

Re: What Happened To Madeleine McCann? - by Ian Horrocks.
« Reply #65 on: May 07, 2017, 06:03:46 PM »
Cadaver dog alerted in the apartment unknown as to how the scent got there.

Or what the scent may have been to cause the dog's reaction.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline slartibartfast

Re: What Happened To Madeleine McCann? - by Ian Horrocks.
« Reply #66 on: May 07, 2017, 06:12:19 PM »
Or what the scent may have been to cause the dog's reaction.

Depends how many myths you want or roll out.
“Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired”.

Offline Brietta

Re: What Happened To Madeleine McCann? - by Ian Horrocks.
« Reply #67 on: May 07, 2017, 06:18:06 PM »
In 2013 Ian Horrocks considered the police conduct of Madeleine's case and concluded that the myopic view of Madeleine's parents by an investigation which left no straw unchewed as far as belief in their involvement was concerned obstructed what should have been the real inquiry.

They became so fixated on the premise of parental guilt that despite there being no evidence to support it they allowed it to take over the investigation to the exclusion of other valid lines of inquiry.

Indeed it is a legacy still laboured under by some who call themselves sceptics even today.



Quote
One of the main problems as I see it was that quite early on in the investigation, as well as looking at the offence as possibly being committed by a paedophile; the police clearly suspected that Mr and Mrs McCann were in some way involved. This was obviously an initial valid and correct line of enquiry, however, even though there was absolutely no evidence to support this, it clearly became of significance and the focus of much of their time and resources.

This was undoubtedly reinforced by the comments made by a member of the British Police team ***, who regardless of the fact that there was absolutely nothing to point to either Mr or Mrs McCann being involved, still stated that their involvement ‘deserves as much attention as the criminal and sexual motivations that has been previously prioritised’. This in my view misguided analysis also disregards the sighting by Jane Tanner.

This may have supported and gave credence to the views of some in the Portuguese Police and diverted investigative resources away from more realistic and obvious lines of enquiry.

Such thinking would potentially have closed the minds of the police to other lines of investigation and avenues of enquiry, thereby missing many opportunities to gather evidence, interview witnesses and identify potential suspects. In such cases as has been seen all too often before, both in the UK and elsewhere, the investigator often, albeit subconsciously will try to make the evidence fit his theory. This can be extremely dangerous. Although theories are of course a significant part of detective work, they should be based on evidence and not simply that you think you know what happened. The vital point is to keep an open mind and to go where the evidence leads, not where you think you want it to go.

The reality is that in such cases it is fundamental that the investigators keep an open mind and work to the evidence not what they think may have happened. Also, their belief should be that they are looking for a live child and not confirmation of death. This mindset is fundamental to the way an investigation progresses and how the people working on it respond to information.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=3247.msg92507#msg92507


*** Lee Rainbow is quoted here 

Scotland Yard statements on Madeleine McCann fail to erase the question marks Allvoices

BY NIGEL MOORE
Jul 09, 2013 at 6:11 PM PDT [Jul 10, 2013 at 02:11 AM BST]

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Nigel/id447.htm
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline John

Re: What Happened To Madeleine McCann? - by Ian Horrocks.
« Reply #68 on: May 07, 2017, 06:21:01 PM »
If the GNR dogs were indeed following Madeleine's scent I think the fact that both followed it to the car park opposite the reception area may indicate that she was taken to a vehicle which was parked there to wait for her.

I don't think there was any RTA.

The route followed by the GNR dogs was a secluded, dark and sheltered one with boundary walls from start to finish until the end of the lane behind apartment 5a.
Perhaps the nature of the route helped to preserve the scent because I don't think they checked it out immediately ... but only when all else had failed.

I agree the Portuguese dogs and handlers did an excellent job.

I have considered that Brie but the big difference is that if she was abducted from the apartment she was carried.  In those circumstances scent is not transferred directly to the ground which would be the case with a barefooted child. A child walking will lay a trail which can be easily followed.  The scent from a carried child will tend to dissipate and especially so if it is windy.

We can't rule out a RTA, it is still a very valid possibility.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2017, 06:25:21 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Brietta

Re: What Happened To Madeleine McCann? - by Ian Horrocks.
« Reply #69 on: May 07, 2017, 06:26:26 PM »
Depends how many myths you want or roll out.

It is a myth that Eddie alerted to cadaver odour. 

Quite simply, it is unknown what Eddie did alert to. 

All the dialogue on it won't change the fact that the dog's visit achieved nothing but confusion and nothing of use to producing any indication of what might have happened to Madeleine McCann.

To all intents and purposes the dogs were an irrelevance ... apart from the utter confusion and harm police misunderstanding of them led to.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Alfie

  • Guest
Re: What Happened To Madeleine McCann? - by Ian Horrocks.
« Reply #70 on: May 07, 2017, 06:27:38 PM »
I have considered that Brie but the big difference is that if she was abducted from the apartment she was carried.  In those circumstances scent is not transferred directly to the ground which would be the case with a barefooted child. A child walking will lay a trail which can be easily followed.  The scent from a carried child will tend to dissipate and especially so if it is windy.

We can't rule out a RTA, it is still a very valid possibility.
tracker dogs aren't limited to only being able to follow the trail of barefooted pedestrians as far as I'm aware.

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: What Happened To Madeleine McCann? - by Ian Horrocks.
« Reply #71 on: May 07, 2017, 06:52:31 PM »
It is a myth that Eddie alerted to cadaver odour. 

Quite simply, it is unknown what Eddie did alert to. 

All the dialogue on it won't change the fact that the dog's visit achieved nothing but confusion and nothing of use to producing any indication of what might have happened to Madeleine McCann.

To all intents and purposes the dogs were an irrelevance ... apart from the utter confusion and harm police misunderstanding of them led to.

It is not a myth, it is a possibility.

Likewise, if the dogs are so irrelevant, why are some Mccann supporters obsessed with them ?  8**8:/:

Offline slartibartfast

Re: What Happened To Madeleine McCann? - by Ian Horrocks.
« Reply #72 on: May 07, 2017, 06:55:41 PM »
It is not a myth, it is a possibility.

Likewise, if the dogs are so irrelevant, why are some Mccann supporters obsessed with them ?  8**8:/:

I would go further and say it is most likely. It is what the dog was trained to alert to.
“Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired”.

Offline Robittybob1

Re: What Happened To Madeleine McCann? - by Ian Horrocks.
« Reply #73 on: May 07, 2017, 06:56:56 PM »
Police follow their clues regardless. They know any body in a missing person case is probably moved 3 months later. That's why police use them or why bother?
Where did this come from?
Moderation
John has instructed all moderators to take a very strong line with posters who constantly breach the rules of this forum.  This sniping, goading, name calling and other various forms of disruption will cease.

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: What Happened To Madeleine McCann? - by Ian Horrocks.
« Reply #74 on: May 07, 2017, 06:59:06 PM »
It is a myth that Eddie alerted to cadaver odour. 

Quite simply, it is unknown what Eddie did alert to. 

All the dialogue on it won't change the fact that the dog's visit achieved nothing but confusion and nothing of use to producing any indication of what might have happened to Madeleine McCann.

To all intents and purposes the dogs were an irrelevance ... apart from the utter confusion and harm police misunderstanding of them led to.

Bang-on right.

Apart from that I would add to the part emboldened, misunderstanding AND LIES!