Author Topic: If Madeleine walked out of the apartment which door did she exit?  (Read 113987 times)

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Offline jassi

Re: If Madeleine walked out of the apartment which door did she exit?
« Reply #60 on: May 16, 2017, 01:18:57 PM »
I think there is a possibility(but not a probability) Madeleine could have opened the window if it was unlocked and IMO she would have done that before attempting to do anything to the shutters. The lack of identifiable fingerprints found does not mean she did not touch the handle or lateral side of the pane's frame - after all, no prints were found belonging to the female cleaner.
  From a child's POV she may have thought that by opening the window the shutters would have opened at the same time. After realising that the shutters didn't open by that method Madeleine would have had to establish how to do that. The covers on the bed under the window were not neat & tidy so that could have disguised the fact she'd played around with the window & curtains whilst standing on the bed.
However, there is no true explanation as to how the net curtains arrived in the position shown in the crime scene photos - nets are difficult to move when they bunch up on a rail or cable.
I do not think Kate was mistaken about the open window. The sight of it open combined with the raised shutters prompted the thoughts of an intruder followed by the terror in realising Madeleine was no longer in the apartment.
In the case of Isabel Celis (Tuscon 2012), another girl who was apparently abducted from her bedroom, the window in her room was discovered to be open & the exterior shutter broken & on the ground outside.  Despite the fact that CCTV cameras nearby could monitor the bedroom window, no-one was seen entering or leaving via the window. This was due to the fact that the cameras were motion-activated so whoever opened the window & broke the shutter did so from inside the property - probably in an attempt to hide a more legitimate access means.

Were both net curtains pulled back, or only the one in front of the open window?
I ask this because it seems to me that it would be difficult for anyone standing outside the building to push back the net curtain that was behind the closed portion of the window.
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline misty

Re: If Madeleine walked out of the apartment which door did she exit?
« Reply #61 on: May 16, 2017, 01:29:32 PM »
Were both net curtains pulled back, or only the one in front of the open window?
I ask this because it seems to me that it would be difficult for anyone standing outside the building to push back the net curtain that was behind the closed portion of the window.

Net curtains in that size window are normally one continuous piece of fabric and that is why I believe the curtain must have been pushed back from the inside due to the difficulty you mention. The fabric must also have been clear of the pane upon which Kate's fingerprints were left.

Offline Robittybob1

Re: If Madeleine walked out of the apartment which door did she exit?
« Reply #62 on: May 16, 2017, 09:00:08 PM »
Net curtains in that size window are normally one continuous piece of fabric and that is why I believe the curtain must have been pushed back from the inside due to the difficulty you mention. The fabric must also have been clear of the pane upon which Kate's fingerprints were left.
I think it was the police photographer who pushed the nets back (two pieces shown in some photos) to reveal the window.
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Offline misty

Re: If Madeleine walked out of the apartment which door did she exit?
« Reply #63 on: May 16, 2017, 09:13:23 PM »
I think it was the police photographer who pushed the nets back (two pieces shown in some photos) to reveal the window.

Can you provide me with a link to a photo showing 2 separate pieces of net curtain at that window, please?

Offline misty

Re: If Madeleine walked out of the apartment which door did she exit?
« Reply #64 on: May 16, 2017, 09:24:34 PM »
Oct 2007 Paulo Rebelo attempting entry at crime scene described by Kate.

Offline Robittybob1

Re: If Madeleine walked out of the apartment which door did she exit?
« Reply #65 on: May 16, 2017, 09:25:03 PM »
Can you provide me with a link to a photo showing 2 separate pieces of net curtain at that window, please?
That looks like nets on both sides of the window.  There two net curtains one over each pane.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2017, 09:28:26 PM by Robittybob1 »
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John has instructed all moderators to take a very strong line with posters who constantly breach the rules of this forum.  This sniping, goading, name calling and other various forms of disruption will cease.

Offline misty

Re: If Madeleine walked out of the apartment which door did she exit?
« Reply #66 on: May 16, 2017, 09:27:22 PM »


I can't see a net on the r/h/s as you look at it.

Offline jassi

Re: If Madeleine walked out of the apartment which door did she exit?
« Reply #67 on: May 16, 2017, 09:32:10 PM »
I can't see a net on the r/h/s as you look at it.

Really?  It's pretty clear to me. Just look at the hem line on both sides of the window. And you can just see the checked blue curtain through the net, whereas where the net is pulled back, the blue is very clear
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline Robittybob1

Re: If Madeleine walked out of the apartment which door did she exit?
« Reply #68 on: May 16, 2017, 09:33:56 PM »
Really?  It's pretty clear to me. Just look at the hem line on both sides of the window. And you can just see the checked blue curtain through the net, whereas where the net is pulled back, the blue is very clear
exactly as Jassi says.  The thermal drapes the hemline was at floor level not window sill level so we are seeing the net curtains here.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2017, 11:44:39 PM by Robittybob1 »
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John has instructed all moderators to take a very strong line with posters who constantly breach the rules of this forum.  This sniping, goading, name calling and other various forms of disruption will cease.

Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: If Madeleine walked out of the apartment which door did she exit?
« Reply #69 on: May 16, 2017, 09:42:00 PM »
Really?  It's pretty clear to me. Just look at the hem line on both sides of the window. And you can just see the checked blue curtain through the net, whereas where the net is pulled back, the blue is very clear

You beat me to the draw!  8(0(*
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

Offline misty

Re: If Madeleine walked out of the apartment which door did she exit?
« Reply #70 on: May 16, 2017, 09:47:39 PM »
Really?  It's pretty clear to me. Just look at the hem line on both sides of the window. And you can just see the checked blue curtain through the net, whereas where the net is pulled back, the blue is very clear

Enlarge the right hand of the 3 photos & tell me if you see it the same.

Offline jassi

Re: If Madeleine walked out of the apartment which door did she exit?
« Reply #71 on: May 16, 2017, 09:50:52 PM »
Enlarge the right hand of the 3 photos & tell me if you see it the same.

Yes, the hem is still visible at extreme lower right.

I can't see your problem, it's quite clear.
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline misty

Re: If Madeleine walked out of the apartment which door did she exit?
« Reply #72 on: May 16, 2017, 09:55:42 PM »
Yes, the hem is still visible at extreme lower right.

I can't see your problem, it's quite clear.

I can see the hem - I just don't get why there is only curtain edge visible on the r/h/s.
Still, it's 3 onto 1 so I surrender.

Offline Robittybob1

Re: If Madeleine walked out of the apartment which door did she exit?
« Reply #73 on: May 16, 2017, 09:57:54 PM »
Enlarge the right hand of the 3 photos & tell me if you see it the same.
In the last photo of those 3 the thermal drapes have been tied back. so we are only seeing the net curtains.
Moderation
John has instructed all moderators to take a very strong line with posters who constantly breach the rules of this forum.  This sniping, goading, name calling and other various forms of disruption will cease.

Offline misty

Re: If Madeleine walked out of the apartment which door did she exit?
« Reply #74 on: May 16, 2017, 10:23:16 PM »
In the last photo of those 3 the thermal drapes have been tied back. so we are only seeing the net curtains.

Eh? Now I have lost the plot.