Author Topic: Is It Possible To Work Out Time Of Death ?  (Read 772 times)

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Offline Nine of Nine

Is It Possible To Work Out Time Of Death ?
« on: May 17, 2017, 11:09:52 AM »
I was wondering how close we could get to determing the possible earliest time of Joanna Yeates untimely death with the information that we are aware of....

If we start with Tesco's..

(1): 8:40 pm she is leaving Tesco's

(2): 8:45 pm She is seen at The Hophouse pub

(3): 8:50 pm gets her to Canygne Road and chats with Priest

(4): 8:55 pm she enters Flat 1

(5): 9:00 pm she takes off her coat and puts shopping in kitchen

(6): 9:05 pm she got to bedroom to change her clothes to The Patterned Pink Top and Blue Jeans

(7): 9:10 pm she puts the pizza in the oven...

There are other questions here.... did she have make up on when she was found ?? did she wear make up to work ?? The image I have attached looks like there is a make up bag on the toilet cistern...

The Defence says:
Quote
Defence Counsel: Look at our timeline chart again. No 76. Jo Yeates did not get back to
her flat until 8.37 or thereabouts.
That is a completely Inaccurate Statement!!

This is why we need to glean what we can from what we know.... Instead of what we have been programmed to believe...

Lack of stomach contents doesn't indicate time of death, and we were persuaded that her last meal was indeed cheesy chips.... Was there any material that was tested to show that chessy chips were left in Joanna Yeates stomach ??

Her alcohol levels were consistant with having drunk 2 pints of cider... But when did she drink the alcohol.... And surely the "Stomach" contents would have been tested and "Cider" would have been present in the results...

But we don't get an accurate description of what was exactly in Joanna Yeates stomach... To determine anything.. But we are given just enough information for us to picture what could have taken Place and at what time "This" must have been...

You have 2 possible answers with the "Cider".... if she didn't have "Cider" in her stomach contents then she drank something else... If she had emptied her bladder she was "Killed a lot later"... If the type of Alcohol couldn't be established surely the fact that "Apples" are what "Cider is made of would have shown up on any test that was done on her stomach contents... (IMO).

I'll go back to number (2):... If we had seen the CCTV from the Caffe Nero.. we would have an even more accurate time of when she got to 'The Hophouse Pub"... I only say that it's.. 8:45pm because of the timestamp of the supposed people following her.... There is NO Time Stamp again on the image of Joanna Yeates passing "The Hopwood Pub'... so it's possible that it was later....

We have the media story about these people... But Colin Port himself states that the images are grainy and useless... (Not in those exact words)... at the leveson inquiry... Colin Port knew that the CCTV from "The Hophouse Pub" was useless at identifying even Joanna Yeates"... But it was brought to court as evidence that she indeed passed the bottom of King's Road at a certain Time... The only accurate CCTV is "The Caffe Nero" CCTV on Regent Street as she walks directly passed it with a woman and child behind her....

The woman and child do not appear on "The  Hophouse Pub".. CCTV and if they are directley behind her they should at least come into focus... (IMO)...

Again we have used the Media to create a Time Line that May Not be true (IMO)....

We know that her Parents Identify her body.... We understand, But we really needed Greg Reardon to do this, because he would have know what clothing she had last been seen wearing when he last saw her on Friday 17th December 2010

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8056.msg406480#msg406480

If we have managed to get to 9:10 pm at this point... doesn't that also indicate that Dr Vincent Tabak could not have killed Joanna Yeates..??

Somewhere I posted about the prosecution saying that Dr Vincent Tabak had Joanna Yeates in his Flat for about 1 hour before he goes to Asda...

And the defence has him leaving or at ASDA at 10:13 pm
Quote
Defence Counsel: Look at our timeline chart again. No 76. Jo Yeates did not get back to
her flat until 8.37 or thereabouts. Timeline 39- you ultimately went to Asda at approx
10.13 pm.

There has to be proof that Dr Vincent Tabak was in his Flat for 1 hour before he went to ASDA... Remember the 1300 page Document contains not only "Searches" but... Landline Calls.. Texts.. Emails.. Phone calls of the 4 people from the basement Flats...

Which would leave Dr Vincent Tabak 3 minutes to not only "Kill", Joanna Yeates... but to carry her body to various locations in the flat and his, then get her in the bicycle cover/bag, collect his car and put her in the "Boot"...

That is Impossible by anyones standards" (IMO)...
Quote
There were apparent blood stains on her flower patterned pink top but no signs of injuries to her genitalia, Dr Delaney said.

And the image of her coming out of the Toilet at "The Ram" shows her in a Plain Top.. Again The "Time Stamp" is missing... But Not The date..... WHY?

http://www.criminal-lawyer.org.uk/39-CLN-JAN-2012.pdf

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/killer-weeps-over-images-of-joanna-yeates-body-2370602.html

Offline Nine of Nine

Re: Is It Possible To Work Out Time Of Death ?
« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2017, 01:26:48 PM »
Journey Home Part 1.............


By trying to establish time earliest time of death using the information given, I have plotted Joanna Yeates Journey home...

I'll start with the info on the Berkeley....

Quote
Some, including the Berkley Wetherspoons pub, said police had looked at their videos, but not found any images of Jo. One bar manager, who did not want to be named, said: “Police had told us they were going to check all the shops and bars on her route home.

So if there are "NO" images of her going past the Berkely... Joanna Yeates had to take a different route to get to "Little Waitrose"....

First image:... Is Journey from Park Street to Little Waitrose....

The only time I really can go from is the times "Tesco's" video"... so keeping that in mind I shall carry on with her Journey home....
Image Two... This is The IMPORTANT ROUTE..... She goes past "Caffe Nero' in the opposite direction to what we believe she did.... she has too.... because of the order in which she shops... And The woman and child behind her..To her destination of TESCO"S....


Quote
411111: The investigation team reported on the full movements of Ms
Yeates as seen on CCTV from the Ram Public House to the last sighting at
the Hop House CCTV. They commented that a woman and child were visible
behind Ms Yeates on the Cafe Nero footage but by the time she was seen on
the Hop House camera, Ms Yeates was ahead of the adult and child,


(1): Image Journey from Park Street to 'Little Waitrose"

(2): Image Journey From Little Waitrose to "Nero cafe"

(3): Image Journey From "Nero Cafe to Tesco's

(4): Image Journey Tesco's to "Bargain Booze

(5): Image Journey Journey Home

By the time Joanna Yeates has gone into Tesco Express..."The Woman And Child " have carried on with their journey and are no longer visible to Joanna Yeates.... Because 'Tesco" Express is the only CCTV we have with a Time Stamp... we know from that information , she is in Tesco's till 8:40 pm....

Quote
but by the time she was seen onthe Hop House camera, Ms Yeates was ahead of the adult and child,
[/color][/size]

As she comes out of "Tesco's"... "The ADULT" And Child"... are In Front of her... Joanna Yeates may be walking briskly.. Or 'The Adult And Child may have become stationary on the Pavement... But we can see from what "Colin Port Isn't trying to say:..... That she actually has to "PASS" 'The  ADULT" and Child"... when her next appearance is going past "The Hophouse PUB... (IMO)...


I think they are correct in their order of shops... we have all just decided that because it is direct that she must have done "Bargain Booze".. before Tesco.... (IMO)...


Quote
The reconstruction will be filmed on Thursday.
It will track 'Jo' leaving the Ram pub at 8pm before stopping at a Waitrose, Tesco and Bargain Booze (now called Baryah's) before heading home to her flat in Clifton.


So on to image 5.... She come out of "Bargain Booze"..... walks past "Tesco's again... but this is in the direction of home... And this journey can take up to 10 mins plus..... (IMO)

So her arrival at "HOME" has to be later than 8:45 pm

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/joanna-yeates-may-have-frozen-to-death-after-271727

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1347905/Joanna-Yeates-final-journey-filmed-Crimewatch-reconstruction.html





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Offline Nine of Nine

Re: Is It Possible To Work Out Time Of Death ?
« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2017, 01:27:28 PM »
Journey home ..Part 2....

So now I believe I have established a more likely route home.... The  timings now become very different... That's why I wanted to start with what we have known from the "Tesco's CCTv.. That she leaves Tesco's at 8:40pm..

This is the only Time Stamp in all of the CCTV's that we have been made aware of....

So her Journey will start from Tesco's....

* Tesco's .... 8:40 pm

* Bargain Booze... 8 42pm...

She has to be in "Bargain Booze for at least 5 mins... and my reasoning for this is because she gets one bottle of cider , then looks at her phone... which her mother said in a "Documentary".. because her mother expressed how it made her smile when she went back to get the other bottle of cider... Then she needs to go to the counter and pay...
One thing we don't consider is did she get served straight away???? Or was there another customer before her??? We don't know??? But I'll stay with her being served straight after she has got the second bottle of Cider.. for now...

* Leaves "Bargain Booze at 8:47 pm

Journey from Bargain Booze home...  10 mins to Canygne square walking ....

* Reaches Canygne Square at 8:57 pm

Then she is a couple of mins if that to Canygne Road.... This is where The Priest meets her in the street... If they pass pleasantaries.. that would be another couple of minutes..

*Canygne Road 8:59 pm

After talking to the priest for two minutes we could gauge....

 she reached her front door at 9:02pm


That makes a huge difference already....  because of the time that is left for Dr Vincent Tabak to commit this crime...

She then needs to take off her coat... put shopping in Kitchen... Put her "Rusksack" on dining room Table..Open a bottle of cider..... Take Pizza out of packaging and put in the oven...

* To do these actions will take time... 5 mins roughly

This will now bring us to:9:07 pm She has to put the TV on..  be next in the kitchen.. Where she can see Dr Vincent Tabak passing Kitchen window.. At what must be 9:09 pm .. when she opens the door to Dr Vincent Tabak....

I haven't at this point even added the change of  Clothes she was found wearing when discovered around Longwood Lane .. which differ from the clothes she has on in the "Ram"..!!

Where he has to take his coat off... and go into the kitchen for his 10 minutes flirty chat..... I'll stop there for a minute... Now whether we believe Dr Vincent Tabak's version of how these events played out.... He at that time on entering the flat... would have had NO IDEA.. as to what Joanna Yeates Journey home was like .. Or at what time she had arrived home... "A Vital detail..  (IMO).. So 9:09 pm has to be the earliest Dr Vincent Tabak comes into contact with Joanna yeates ... (IMO).. Because she has put things away etc....

If The Prosecution has Dr Vincent Tabak in his Fat for an hour before he went to ASDA... That means he has to be in his own flat at 9:13 pm as the Defence say he ultimatley went to Asda at 10:13 pm

That would leave Dr Vincent Tabak; Approx 4 MINUTES to Flirt.. Kill.. move from Kitchen to bedroom.. go home come back... move her to his flat... get his car off the street... put her in the boot and leave for ASDA at 10:13pm

But is that what the Defence mean when they say he Utimatley went to ASDA at 10:13pm... Is that the actual time he arrives at ASDA??? I say this ...Because he go in and out of ASDA Twice....

So if a Journey to Bedminster is around 10 mins... Dr Vincent Tabak was last in his house at 10:03pm

Lets go back a minute... If Dr Vincent Tabak is in his house for 1 hour before he goes to ASDA... then the time an hour before is .... 9:03 pm

By My Calculations.. Joanna Yeates has only just reached her home at 9:02pm... so how was it possible for Dr Vincent Tabak to kill her ???

Playing devils advocate.. If we say he saw her outside her house... dragged her into his flat killed her there .... he still would need to know where she puts her rucksack when she comes home.... Maybe pour out some beer if you want to add that... But why bother.. why not just take all her shopping and Put it in a BIN.... He could have got her keys and returned them to her flat with her belongings.. but he didn't need to take the shopping back if we believe this scenario.. And you would still need the reason for attacking her in the first place...

So if we go with what the DEFENCE Said... she let him in.. they chatted and was flirty for 10 mins... he made an advance on her... he screamed and he attacks her....

The time is not available for this (IMO)... Also all the "Screams that were heard" are before 9:00pm I think... Which would mean that she screamed in the street before actually reaching home...And Dr Vincent Tabak would not have seen her in her kitchen window ...(IMO)..

So we still haven't established the time of death... but i believe we are getting a little closer.....

If I take you back to... 9:07 pm... when her shopping is put in kitchen.. and before we think she has seen Dr Vincent Tabak... we need the time to change her clothes...say that takes 5 mins ... The earliest time that Dr Vincent Tabak could possibly see Joanna Yeates in her kitchen window is.. 9:12pm... Back to the Prosecution of Dr Vincent Tabak was in his house for 1 hour before he went to ASDA....

If he either sets of to ASDA at 10:13pm or is Actually at ASDA at 10:13 pm.... he literally cannot have come across Joanna Yeates at all..... (IMO)...








Offline Nine of Nine

Re: Is It Possible To Work Out Time Of Death ?
« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2017, 01:32:40 PM »
Journey home ..Part 3



*  8:40pm Tesco's

*  8:42 pm Baragain Booze

*  8:47pm Leave Baragain Booze

*  8:57pm Reaches Canygne Square

*  8:59pm Reaches Canygne Road

*  9:02 pm Reaches front door

*  9:07 pm Shopping on counter ruskack on table

*  9:12pm Has changed her clothes ..

*  9:14pm In kitchen possibly waving  &%+((£

*  9:15 pm `opens door.. lets someone in...

Offline Leonora

Re: Is It Possible To Work Out Time Of Death ?
« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2017, 02:37:23 PM »
I was wondering how close we could get to determing the possible earliest time of Joanna Yeates untimely death with the information that we are aware of....

If we start with Tesco's..

(1): 8:40 pm she is leaving Tesco's

(2): 8:45 pm She is seen at The Hophouse pub

(3): 8:50 pm gets her to Canygne Road and chats with Priest

(4): 8:55 pm she enters Flat 1

(5): 9:00 pm she takes off her coat and puts shopping in kitchen

(6): 9:05 pm she got to bedroom to change her clothes to The Patterned Pink Top and Blue Jeans

(7): 9:10 pm she puts the pizza in the oven...

Please don't go there, Nine.

(1) We have already established with 100 percent certainty that we do NOT know anything about Joanna's movements after she was captured inside Tesco at 8.37 p.m. - and even that CCTV, as you yourself have pointed out, may have been tampered with.

(2) We can discount the Hop House CCTV, as the person seen could be anybody.

(3) Fr Henwood told the court that he walked his dog between 8.15 p.m. and 8.30 p.m., and therefore his encounter with Joanna, if it were she, was nowhere near Canynge Road or Percival Road. He did not tell the court where he thought their paths crossed, but from what we have been told officially about her route, it must have been before she got to Bargain Booze and before she got to Tesco.

(4) You have no grounds for asserting that she got to her flat at 8.55 p.m., or at all that evening, or at all. She may have spent the night elsewhere. It is probable that she did not get back until after Vincent Tabak had an alibi. It is probable that she went back to feed the cat, unless her clothes and keys were planted in the flat by her killer. That is unlikely but it cannot be ruled out.

She could have changed her clothes, eaten the pizza, gone to the toilet, at any time during the weekend. We really do not have the facts. If Christopher Jefferies would publish his 2nd witness statement, we would know a great deal more. If the police would release the text of the Schiphol interview, we would know a great deal more. But they won't, and it is fruitless to use so much energy on speculation that cannot be verified.

Offline Leonora

Re: Is It Possible To Work Out Time Of Death ?
« Reply #5 on: May 26, 2017, 02:44:38 PM »
(1): Image Journey from Park Street to 'Little Waitrose"

(2): Image Journey From Little Waitrose to "Nero cafe"

(3): Image Journey From "Nero Cafe to Tesco's

(4): Image Journey Tesco's to "Bargain Booze

(5): Image Journey Journey Home
You cannot be serious! Although all of Joanna's movements after leaving the Ram pub MAY have been falsified, they were at least consistent up until she left Tesco Express. The official story told by the police at the time and in court by the barristers was that she went into Bargain Booze BEFORE she went into Tesco Express. I cannot see from this long post that you have produced any good reason to reverse this sequence of events.

"Little Waitrose" and "Nero Café" are completely new co-ordinates in this game, at least to me. If they didn't emerge until the Leveson Inquiry, then they were probably introduced as part of the official smokescreen. The testimony of Colin Port and DCI Jones cannot be relied upon.

Offline Leonora

Re: Is It Possible To Work Out Time Of Death ?
« Reply #6 on: May 26, 2017, 02:55:46 PM »
Journey home ..Part 2....

So now I believe I have established a more likely route home.... The  timings now become very different... That's why I wanted to start with what we have known from the "Tesco's CCTv.. That she leaves Tesco's at 8:40pm..
You have established no such thing. You have NO evidence whatsoever as to where she went after leaving Tesco. You have NO evidence putting Joanna in Canynge Road at all at any time during that weekend, though it was probably she herself who put her coat and keys there, rather than someone else.

What you do know is that the police and the CPS wanted everyone to THINK she was at home at a time when the placid Dutchman whom they planned to arrest had no alibi. This in itself makes it very likely that she was NEVER at home during his window of opportunity. We have already discussed this in satisfying depth, so why do you suddenly INSIST that the barristers were telling the truth about movements of her for which they had no evidence either? They chose to "believe" Vincent Tabak's testimony. That is the only grounds for your timetable, and it wouldn't hold up in any court except Bristol Crown Court, and then only at that particular trial.

Offline Nine of Nine

Re: Is It Possible To Work Out Time Of Death ?
« Reply #7 on: May 26, 2017, 03:51:54 PM »
Please don't go there, Nine.

(1) We have already established with 100 percent certainty that we do NOT know anything about Joanna's movements after she was captured inside Tesco at 8.37 p.m. - and even that CCTV, as you yourself have pointed out, may have been tampered with.

(2) We can discount the Hop House CCTV, as the person seen could be anybody.

(3) Fr Henwood told the court that he walked his dog between 8.15 p.m. and 8.30 p.m., and therefore his encounter with Joanna, if it were she, was nowhere near Canynge Road or Percival Road. He did not tell the court where he thought their paths crossed, but from what we have been told officially about her route, it must have been before she got to Bargain Booze and before she got to Tesco.

(4) You have no grounds for asserting that she got to her flat at 8.55 p.m., or at all that evening, or at all. She may have spent the night elsewhere. It is probable that she did not get back until after Vincent Tabak had an alibi. It is probable that she went back to feed the cat, unless her clothes and keys were planted in the flat by her killer. That is unlikely but it cannot be ruled out.

She could have changed her clothes, eaten the pizza, gone to the toilet, at any time during the weekend. We really do not have the facts. If Christopher Jefferies would publish his 2nd witness statement, we would know a great deal more. If the police would release the text of the Schiphol interview, we would know a great deal more. But they won't, and it is fruitless to use so much energy on speculation that cannot be verified.



(1)... I am Not saying 100% that my working out of her journey is correct,... But the only way she could not been seen on CCTV Images from "The Berkeley Pub"  (also known as witherspoons 15-19 queens road).... Is if she took a diversion that stopped her carrying on her journey directly past 'The Berkeley".. (IMO)..

(2):..Ok... chuck out the Hop house CCTV... It still doesn't change the times she did what she did...


(3):If Father Henwood is correct and he did indeed speak to Joanna Yeates on that evening and at that time... Then that lends to my earlier posts about "The Time On The Tesco's CCTV being tampered with... It may also be that it wasn't the 17th December 2010 that that CCTV Image is actually from....

The Police have had hours to search CCTV of Joanna Yeates and we only Know her Journey from the information they gave us.....

But that is a valid point..... which I'll come back to at the end of your questions....

(4):I am only asserting the first part of the "Polices Story" that her Journey was from.. "The Ram to a few shops them home "... that is all I am covering in my description of what the "Police Told Us what Joanna Yeates final Journey home was... And My route is an alternative example... that is all.. and by her not been seen on the cctv between 15-19 Queen Street .. I gave her a different route....

And she could have done a lot of thing leonora I completely agree... but for now my early posts on her journey home are to demonstrate... that the "Polices" actual timings are completley WRONG!! (IMO).... with the information and the CCTV footage of Tesco's Time stamped Video....

I'll start with the CCTV from Tesco's.... There has to be an IMPORTANT reason why this CCTV footage has been tampered with ..(IMO)... and the answers are at least twofold....

(A):...  This footage could be from a completely different Time and Date... if they tampered with the footage and we can clearly see the Timestamp is "NOT the type of Time stamp you would get on CCTV footage from a security camera in a supermarket.... as The written information takes up too much of the CCTV image.. and the word PLAY...is clear for all to see.... So I discount what this CCTV footage allegedly shows....

(B):Could The Footage actually be from a "Later" time than 8:40pm ??  If we take Father Henwoods statement that he Did indeed speak to Joanna Yeates between 8:15pm and 8:30pm... that again makes more sense...

(C): Now "THIS" is where it makes sense ...... After speaking with Father Henwood by 8:30pm... Then Joanna Yeates Rings Rebecca Scott... who originally said she talked on the phone to her for 15 minutes... which would mean she then WALKED or was walking Back towards Tesco's  as she spoke to "Rebecca"... Then from Tesco's.... then on towards "Bargain Booze".. which would make her going to "Bargain Booze" LAST a more reasonable reason for visiting the shops in that order....

(D): If we go with what Rebecca Yeates has said about the length of time that she spoke to Joanna Yeates for.... even if it was 6 or 7 minutes... it won't change the fact that she must have gone back to Tesco's after she spoke to father Henwood... Then onto "Bargain Booze" were she recieves a text that makes her purchase an extra Cider".. Then her final journey home begins from that point....

So without working out times for her arrival back to her Flat on Canygne Road it has to be after well 9:00pm before she walks through her front door...

I am not discounting anything else... that may have happened.. when she reached "Canygne Road" either at around 8:30 pm or later... I am just dealing with this point first.... She could have got home changed and then gone out for the Pizza... but I don't think so at this point.. until I can come up with a reasoned response to how she is wearing the same clothes... And "YES" I have Ideas about that too which I will cover.... And again.. The CCTV Footage is The Answer... But for now I'll leave you with this first part of what could explain how

Joanna Yeates .. could meet Father Henwood and speak to him between 8:15 pm and 8:30pm and also have time available to talk to her friend "Rebecca Scott" at 8:30pm for up to 15 minutes without this particular phone call been seen on the "TESCO's CCTV FOOTAGE....
Because it obvious that she wasn't talking to Rebecca Scott when we see her in Tesco's ... AND that's another annoyance when trying to understand how she could speak to her friend for any length of time ... when "The Police" have always insisted her Journey home was From 'The Ram.. a few shops  then back to her Flat at Canygne Road"...





Offline Leonora

Re: Is It Possible To Work Out Time Of Death ?
« Reply #8 on: May 26, 2017, 04:51:54 PM »
(1)... I am Not saying 100% that my working out of her journey is correct,... But the only way she could not been seen on CCTV Images from "The Berkeley Pub"  (also known as witherspoons 15-19 queens road).... Is if she took a diversion that stopped her carrying on her journey directly past 'The Berkeley".. (IMO)..

(2):..Ok... chuck out the Hop house CCTV... It still doesn't change the times she did what she did...
Why invent such a complicated explanation when a straightforward one would do? The Berkeley Pub was not mentioned at all in court, nor in the press reports at the time, so it is eccentric to start inventing even more zigzags to Joanna's alleged route, which in any case is complete hearsay. Either the police found Joanna captured on CCTV passing this location at a time that didn't suit them, or carrying the wrong combination of bags, or they failed to spot her at a time that would have been consistent with the timeline they wanted to present to the press and in court.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2017, 05:13:18 PM by Leonora »

Offline Leonora

Re: Is It Possible To Work Out Time Of Death ?
« Reply #9 on: May 26, 2017, 05:00:36 PM »
...
(C): Now "THIS" is where it makes sense ...... After speaking with Father Henwood by 8:30pm... Then Joanna Yeates Rings Rebecca Scott... who originally said she talked on the phone to her for 15 minutes... which would mean she then WALKED or was walking Back towards Tesco's  as she spoke to "Rebecca"... Then from Tesco's.... then on towards "Bargain Booze".. which would make her going to "Bargain Booze" LAST a more reasonable reason for visiting the shops in that order....
NO, a thousand times NO. If we believe the timeline presented in court, then Joanna started to ring to Rebecca while she was inside Bargain Booze, walked in the direction of Canynge Road while talking to Rebecca, entered Tesco Express still talking, and completed the call before paying for the pizza and leaving the shop. This is all consistent with the texts we have been told she sent. There is no need for you to have her going backwards and forwards.

With the best will in the world, Lord Leveson would have no idea whether Colin Port's testimony conflicted with the timeline heard by the jury. That is not the point. It is quite probable that Joanna's entire timeline was tampered with by the police, but not to make it more peculiar than the court heard. Their black bag secrecy suggests that the best CCTV of her may have been captured on different DAYS, but we cannot be sure. There is nothing to be gained by postulating that she may have gone into Tesco Express LATER that same evening, nor is there any obvious reason for doing so.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2017, 05:15:07 PM by Leonora »

Offline Leonora

Re: Is It Possible To Work Out Time Of Death ?
« Reply #10 on: May 26, 2017, 05:10:22 PM »
...
(D): If we go with what Rebecca Yeates has said about the length of time that she spoke to Joanna Yeates for.... even if it was 6 or 7 minutes... it won't change the fact that she must have gone back to Tesco's after she spoke to father Henwood... Then onto "Bargain Booze" were she recieves a text that makes her purchase an extra Cider".. Then her final journey home begins from that point....
You keep on making her walk backwards and forwards quite unnecessarily. It is really making me giddy. It is true that the Prosecutor put into our heads the idea that Joanna's encounter with Fr Henwood was the last known sighting, but the holy father's own testimony dispelled this by its very vagueness. He did NOT say WHEN he met Joanna, only that he walked his dog at his customary time, namely 8.15 p.m. to 8.30 p.m. Nor did he tell the court any location for his encounter with Joanna more explicit than "Clifton". Therefore, to fit him into the timeline, their meeting HAD to be on the Ram-pub side of Tesco Express, i.e., on the OPPOSITE side of Tesco Express to Canynge Road. It follows in turn that Rebecca Scott was the last person Joanna spoke to, not Fr Henwood.

Nor is there any reason to suspect either Rebecca or Fr Henwood of perjuring themselves, as their stories match.

Offline mrswah

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Re: Is It Possible To Work Out Time Of Death ?
« Reply #11 on: May 26, 2017, 05:36:19 PM »
The Telegraph and the Mail both say that Joanna carried on walking along Canynge Road after meeting Father Henwood. That is where I must have got the notion from-----doesn't mean the papers are right, of course!

The whole Father Henwood thing puzzles me. As I have said before, he didn't know Jo, and therefore cannot be sure the person he saw was actually her, yet he testifies in court in person----------.

His Church is in Knowle, quite a way from Clifton, and I have always wondered why he was living in Clifton. I am guessing that, at that time, he either worked at Clifton RC Cathedral, or at the University Catholic chaplaincy, both of which are in Clifton. Catholic priests do tend to get moved around.

Offline Nine of Nine

Re: Is It Possible To Work Out Time Of Death ?
« Reply #12 on: May 26, 2017, 05:49:22 PM »
He did NOT say WHEN he met Joanna, only that he walked his dog at his customary time, namely 8.15 p.m. to 8.30 p.m. Nor did he tell the court any location for his encounter with Joanna more explicit than "Clifton". Therefore, to fit him into the timeline, their meeting HAD to be on the Ram-pub side of Tesco Express, i.e., on the OPPOSITE side of Tesco Express to Canynge Road. It follows in turn that Rebecca Scott was the last person Joanna spoke to, not Fr Henwood.

Not correct father Henwood being the last person to talk to Joanna Yeates...(IMO).... Father Henwood says "between 8:15pm and 8:30pm... So after she has spoken to father Henwood she then rings her friend Rebecca Scott... who then becomes the last person apart from her killer to have spoken to Joanna Yeates ....


Offline Leonora

Re: Is It Possible To Work Out Time Of Death ?
« Reply #14 on: May 27, 2017, 11:30:16 AM »
Since Joanna WAS murdered, it cannot be ruled out that she DID retrace her steps, went into one or more bars in the hope of getting "picked up", and met her killer that way. She may even have bought the pizza AFTER having a conversation with him, and AFTER having agreed to meet him again later.