Author Topic: Questions about Stan Jones and his involvement with the silencer:  (Read 3988 times)

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Offline adam

Had Stan Jones ever previously been charged with fabricating evidence in EP ?

After the massacre did Stan Jones single handedly decide to fabricate a silencer ?

Did Stan Jones incorrectly believe that evidence being processed would show Bamber was innocent ?

Why would Stan Jones take such a huge criminal and career ending risk ?

Did Stan Jones receive a silencer from the relatives with blood, paint & a hair on ?

Was the received silencer sent away for testing ?

What were the results of the tests ?

If the results showed an attempted frame from the relatives, why didn't Stan Joned charge the relatives ?

If the results showed it was Sheila's blood, does it make Bamber 100% guilty ?

If the results were unfavourable, did Stan Jones fabricate a second silencer & send it away for testing ?

Why haven't the labs ever said they recieved a second silencer ?

Did Stan Jones have access to Sheila's blood ?

Did Stan Jones know how to put Sheila's blood into the silencer to create the back splatter effect ?

Did Stan Jones know the rifle end had no blood on ?

Did Stan Jones know the rifle with the silencer on was too long for Sheila to shoot herself ?

Did Stan Jones know that Sheila had received a contact shot ?

Was Stan Jones able to return to WHF to scratch the aga ?

Did Stan Jones have access to crime scene pictures of the aga ?

Did Stan Jones have access to Nevill's hair ?

Did Stan Jones include other members of EP in his frame ?

If Stan Jones did not receive anything from the relatives, did he ask them to lie in their WS's and say they found the silencer?

Are Basil Cock & Barbara Wilson part of the same lie ? 

Why did the relatives, BC & BW agree to lie by saying they handed in the silencer. Risking criminal charges in order to support a bent copper ?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Questions about Stan Jones and his involvement with the silencer:
« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2017, 12:27:44 PM »
Had Stan Jones ever previously been charged with fabricating evidence in EP ?

No idea of his disciplinary record.

After the massacre did Stan Jones single handedly decide to fabricate a silencer ?

We don't know for sure it was fabricated  8(0(*
 
Did Stan Jones incorrectly believe that evidence being processed would show Bamber was innocent ?

Who knows?  Regardless of what anyone believed I don't see why it would prevent someone fabricating the silencer if they were of a mind to do so.

Why would Stan Jones take such a huge criminal and career ending risk ?

We don't know he did.  If he did he obviously thought he could get away with it perhaps knowing the internal systems, controls, supervision and management were at best weak.  This can be evidenced by the fact he knowingly entered the silencer into the wrong property book to prevent it come under the sort of scrutiny such a find/exhibit would normally undergo.

Did Stan Jones receive a silencer from the relatives with blood, paint & a hair on ?
AE's WS of 14th Aug makes no ref to the finding of the silencer or the handing over.  None of the relatives make ref to the hair.

Was the received silencer sent away for testing ?

According to Glynnis Howard she analysed it on 13th Aug. 

What were the results of the tests ?

Substance on the outside thought to be blood was confirmed as such and human in origin.  Hair was lost in transit.  I can't recall about the paint I would have to check.

If the results showed an attempted frame from the relatives, why didn't Stan Joned charge the relatives ?

How did the results show an attempted frame by anyone?

If the results showed it was Sheila's blood, does it make Bamber 100% guilty ?

2 distinct aspects to the silencer: external and internal.  As I said above the blood on the oustide was human in origin but the volume didn't permit group testing.  The blood supposedly found inside matched SC's blood groups by way of her antigens, 2 enzymes and 1 protein.  This only makes JB most likely guilty if the blood supposedly found inside arrived there by way of the drawback effect.

If the results were unfavourable, did Stan Jones fabricate a second silencer & send it away for testing ?
We don't know he fabricated anything.

Why haven't the labs ever said they recieved a second silencer ?
Did they receive a second silencer?  If so maybe they also had poor systems, controls, supervision and management.

Did Stan Jones have access to Sheila's blood ?

At the end of the autopsies the pathologist handed over the victims blood samples to soc officers which were subsequently placed in EP's soc fridge at Chelmsford so quite possibly most had access to victims' samples until they were forwarded to FSS. 

Did Stan Jones know how to put Sheila's blood into the silencer to create the back splatter effect ?
Blood stain analysis as we know it now has never been used in this case.  I doubt very much DS Jones had any idea about blood stain analysis or the drawback effect.
 
Did Stan Jones know the rifle end had no blood on ?

He observed SC/rifle at soc and worked closely with DI Cook who seems to have been responsible for analysing the rifle by way of transporting it to FSS for blood testing and Sandridge for fingerprinting so yes quite possibly.  If he needed to know he could easily find out.

Did Stan Jones know the rifle with the silencer on was too long for Sheila to shoot herself ?

Unlikely.  Even if he found a woman of the same height it wouldn't account for arm length/reach.  Dr Vanezis didn't take such measurements so noone can say for sure.  In any event the blood on the outside, paint and hair may have been a frame attempt by certain individuals attempting to show NB was beaten with the silencer rather than SC shot with it.

Did Stan Jones know that Sheila had received a contact shot ?

Maybe.  He didn't attend autopsy but as previously said he worked closely with others who did who may have imparted this info.  He also attended a meeting a WHF on 8th with Dr Vanezis so this may have been discussed.

Was Stan Jones able to return to WHF to scratch the aga ?

Yes.  He had access to the newly fitted alarm code when he handed keys over to AE on 9th Aug.  He also attended WHF with DI's Cook and Miller when the took paint samples and casts from the Aga surround.

Did Stan Jones have access to crime scene pictures of the aga ?

Would the police ordinarily take soc photos of the underside?  I thought Peter Sutherest had to piece photos together to arrive at his conclusions?  Yes he would have access to soc photos via DC Bird.

Did Stan Jones have access to Nevill's hair ?

The relatives didn't observe the hair and it was never forensically analysed.  According to the police it was lost in transit.  NB's hair would be all over WHF.

Did Stan Jones include other members of EP in his frame ?

You seem pretty keen Adam that DS Jones fabricated the silencer? 

If Stan Jones did not receive anything from the relatives, did he ask them to lie in their WS's and say they found the silencer?

It's a possibility.

Are Basil Cock & Barbara Wilson part of the same lie ? 

Do you have their trial testimony confirming they witnessed the find of the silencer complete with blood, paint and hair?

Why did the relatives, BC & BW agree to lie by saying they handed in the silencer. Risking criminal charges in order to support a bent copper ?

AE's WS of 14th Aug makes no ref of finding the silencer.  And yet her WS of 8th Sept immediately seizes on the relevance of it.  At this stage ie 8th Sept the case was very much turning against JB so all concerned may have been swept along by it thinking JB guilty.   
« Last Edit: May 24, 2017, 12:42:32 PM by John »
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline adam

Re: Questions about Stan Jones and his involvement with the silencer:
« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2017, 02:03:53 PM »
No idea of his disciplinary record.

We don't know for sure it was fabricated  8(0(*
 
Who knows?  Regardless of what anyone believed I don't see why it would prevent someone fabricating the silencer if they were of a mind to do so.

We don't know he did.  If he did he obviously thought he could get away with it perhaps knowing the internal systems, controls, supervision and management were at best weak.  This can be evidenced by the fact he knowingly entered the silencer into the wrong property book to prevent it come under the sort of scrutiny such a find/exhibit would normally undergo.
AE's WS of 14th Aug makes no ref to the finding of the silencer or the handing over.  None of the relatives make ref to the hair.

According to Glynnis Howard she analysed it on 13th Aug. 

Substance on the outside thought to be blood was confirmed as such and human in origin.  Hair was lost in transit.  I can't recall about the paint I would have to check.

How did the results show an attempted frame by anyone?

2 distinct aspects to the silencer: external and internal.  As I said above the blood on the oustide was human in origin but the volume didn't permit group testing.  The blood supposedly found inside matched SC's blood groups by way of her antigens, 2 enzymes and 1 protein.  This only makes JB most likely guilty if the blood supposedly found inside arrived there by way of the drawback effect.
We don't know he fabricated anything.
Did they receive a second silencer?  If so maybe they also had poor systems, controls, supervision and management.

At the end of the autopsies the pathologist handed over the victims blood samples to soc officers which were subsequently placed in EP's soc fridge at Chelmsford so quite possibly most had access to victims' samples until they were forwarded to FSS. 
Blood stain analysis as we know it now has never been used in this case.  I doubt very much DS Jones had any idea about blood stain analysis or the drawback effect.
 
He observed SC/rifle at soc and worked closely with DI Cook who seems to have been responsible for analysing the rifle by way of transporting it to FSS for blood testing and Sandridge for fingerprinting so yes quite possibly.  If he needed to know he could easily find out.

Unlikely.  Even if he found a woman of the same height it wouldn't account for arm length/reach.  Dr Vanezis didn't take such measurements so noone can say for sure.  In any event the blood on the outside, paint and hair may have been a frame attempt by certain individuals attempting to show NB was beaten with the silencer rather than SC shot with it.

Maybe.  He didn't attend autopsy but as previously said he worked closely with others who did who may have imparted this info.  He also attended a meeting a WHF on 8th with Dr Vanezis so this may have been discussed.

Yes.  He had access to the newly fitted alarm code when he handed keys over to AE on 9th Aug.  He also attended WHF with DI's Cook and Miller when the took paint samples and casts from the Aga surround.

Would the police ordinarily take soc photos of the underside?  I thought Peter Sutherest had to piece photos together to arrive at his conclusions?  Yes he would have access to soc photos via DC Bird.

The relatives didn't observe the hair and it was never forensically analysed.  According to the police it was lost in transit.  NB's hair would be all over WHF.

You seem pretty keen Adam that DS Jones fabricated the silencer? 

It's a possibility.

Do you have their trial testimony confirming they witnessed the find of the silencer complete with blood, paint and hair?

AE's WS of 14th Aug makes no ref of finding the silencer.  And yet her WS of 8th Sept immediately seizes on the relevance of it.  At this stage ie 8th Sept the case was very much turning against JB so all concerned may have been swept along by it thinking JB guilty.   

Thanks again.

As with the innocent until proven guilty saying, we have to assume Stan Jones had a prior unblemished record at EP.

I have focused on Stan Jones as other people have accused him directly of fabricating the silencer. Even guilters. Roch has said Ainsley was brought in to hide evidence, however this was after the silencer had been handed in.

The silencer results showing an attempted frame by the relatives would be if it was human blood but none of the deceased's blood. Nugs has previously suggested RB shot himself with the silencer on. Or the blood entry was not consistent with back splatter.

From you're answers on both today's threads,  it is more likely Stan Jones fabricated the silencer than the relatives. He had access to Sheila's blood & more evidence information. Why he would suddenly committ such a major crime only he would know.

If he did fabricate the silencer, I don't believe he received anything from the relatives or handed in two silencers for testing.

It was a big risk of him to ask the relatives to lie in their WS's and say they handed in a silencer to him. And a big coincidence that they found a separate silencer when with BC & BW at WHF.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2017, 02:16:46 PM by adam »

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Questions about Stan Jones and his involvement with the silencer:
« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2017, 02:32:29 PM »
Thanks again.

As with the innocent until proven guilty saying, we have to assume Stan Jones had a prior unblemished record at EP.

I have focused on Stan Jones as other people have accused him directly of fabricating the silencer. Even guilters. Roch has said Ainsley was brought in to hide evidence, however this was after the silencer had been handed in.

The silencer results showing an attempted frame by the relatives would be if it was human blood but none of the deceased's blood. Nugs has previously suggested RB shot himself with the silencer on. Or the blood entry was not consistent with back splatter.

From you're answers on both today's threads,  it is more likely Stan Jones fabricated the silencer than the relatives. He had access to Sheila's blood & more evidence information. Why he would suddenly committ such a major crime only he would know.

If he did fabricate the silencer, I don't believe he received anything from the relatives or handed in two silencers for testing.

It was a big risk of him to ask the relatives to lie in their WS's and say they handed in a silencer to him. And a big coincidence that they found a separate silencer when with BC & BW at WHF.

According to AE DS Jones wasn't convinced by the finding of the silencer and so she omitted it from her first WS. 

Do you have a source for BW and BC? 
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Marple

Re: Questions about Stan Jones and his involvement with the silencer:
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2017, 02:36:25 PM »
Is Ann Eaton's statement from 14th August 1985 available to view?
I can't seem to find it anywhere on here unless I'm looking in the wrong place, thanks

Offline adam

Re: Questions about Stan Jones and his involvement with the silencer:
« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2017, 02:40:35 PM »
According to AE DS Jones wasn't convinced by the finding of the silencer and so she omitted it from her first WS. 

Do you have a source for BW and BC?

Wilkes's book says BW & BC were at WHF when PE found the silencer. Although not in the same room.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Questions about Stan Jones and his involvement with the silencer:
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2017, 02:42:14 PM »
Is Ann Eaton's statement from 14th August 1985 available to view?
I can't seem to find it anywhere on here unless I'm looking in the wrong place, thanks

Hi Marple

I meant to attach it to the above post.  It's in the following thread post #9. 

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7561.msg352725#msg352725
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Questions about Stan Jones and his involvement with the silencer:
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2017, 02:44:44 PM »
Wilkes's book says BW & BC were at WHF when PE found the silencer. Although not in the same room.

PE didn't find the silencer DB found it. 

So nothing really concrete then from BW and BC eg WS's or trial testimony? 
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Marple

Re: Questions about Stan Jones and his involvement with the silencer:
« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2017, 02:45:07 PM »
Hi Marple

I meant to attach it to the above post.  It's in the following thread post #9. 

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7561.msg352725#msg352725

thank you

Offline adam

Re: Questions about Stan Jones and his involvement with the silencer:
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2017, 02:52:02 PM »
PE didn't find the silencer DB found it. 

So nothing really concrete then from BW and BC eg WS's or trial testimony?

Yes the book says DB.

It says Basil Cock was there to remove some of the families valubles. He telephoned BW asking her to come over.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Questions about Stan Jones and his involvement with the silencer:
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2017, 02:52:22 PM »
thank you

You're welcome.  Good to see you posting. 

How's about the others who regularly login joining in?  The more the merrier.  We need new blood.  All views welcome.  Satisfaction guaranteed  8((()*/
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Questions about Stan Jones and his involvement with the silencer:
« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2017, 02:54:54 PM »
Yes the book says DB.

It says Basil Cock was there to remove some of the families valubles. He telephoned BW asking her to come over.

Yes but none of this is firm evidence of BW and BC observing the silencer in terms of blood, paint and hair. 
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Marple

Re: Questions about Stan Jones and his involvement with the silencer:
« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2017, 03:29:56 PM »
Yes but none of this is firm evidence of BW and BC observing the silencer in terms of blood, paint and hair.

Thanks Holly, I'm more of a lurker, reading and digesting.....
There are lots of points of the case which don't add up, so I'm just plodding along lol  8(0(*

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Questions about Stan Jones and his involvement with the silencer:
« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2017, 05:11:25 PM »
Thanks Holly, I'm more of a lurker, reading and digesting.....
There are lots of points of the case which don't add up, so I'm just plodding along lol  8(0(*

Certainly seem to be more questions than answers!  Just dip in an out as and when.
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?