CMTV Gonçalo Amaral - O Enigma - with English subtitles

[Robittybob1]

Amaral didn't discredit her. Jane did it herself - she cannot remember passing Gerry/Jez but she can remember seeing the man crossing at the top. We've got first hand witness accounts being confused by her recollections. How she thought she brushed past two on a pavement without being seen nor heard is simply not believable.

At some point she translated the statement of one of the ladies who belonged to the group and that she describes as a brunette one. This lady said to the GNR elements, and she (the witness) translated, that she had seen a man on the road who might have carried a child.
This situation surprised her because she (the witness) was convinced that when the lady saw the man, the lady was in a place from where she had no angle of vision for the place where she saw the man. She doesn't know exactly what was the position of the lady when she saw the man, but she knows that the lady said she saw the man in the street in front of the Madeleine's bedroom window, walking in the direction of the street that then leads to the Baptista supermarket. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/SILVIA_BATISTA.htm

At that moment a female individual, he does not know whether she was a member of the group of friends, who was in the neighbouring apartment, said that she saw an individual carrying a child, running, and that because of the pyjamas she was wearing it could have been Madeleine. It was in these circumstances that abduction began to be talked about. He made a report about this situation and sent it to the police.

This sighting did not seem to him to be very credible, because when he asked her about the physical characteristics of the individual, she said it was very dark, however she saw the pyjamas clearly. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/NELSON-DA-COSTA.htm

Was Nelson da Costa able to speak English?  It doesn't sound like he spoke one on one with Jane in English for if he had he would have known her name IMO.  Can we even be sure he is talking to Jane?  How come he didn't write these details down?

That report Nelson da Costa writes about was that a written document or just a phone call? " He made a report about this situation and sent it to the police."

From my studies it wasn't until the Saturday that Jane thought it might have been Madeleine because of the pyjamas.  This report is not an actual account from the night but more a summary of events over a few days IMO.  Unless I see the dated report from Nelson I don't believe what he says was entirely from the night of the 3rd.  (Note the statement by Da Costa is dated 17 th October 2007.  Months later.)

[Alice Purjorick]

The picture is too sketchy IMO.

Sketches normally are a bit sketchy.
You could hardly expect poor old Jez to be on hols with a 30m tape and/or laser measure secreted in his luggage  just in case could you?.
Both Jez and Jane put "the spot" in an envelope approx 3500 to 4000 x 1500 with the long side running north south with the NW corner of the envelope being roughly by the gate. Bearing in mind the average human is crap at estimating mass, time and distance that is about as good you will get. Gerry on the other hand makes it an envelope approx 7000 x 1200 with the long side running east west and "the spot" on the NE corner of the envelope on an indeterminate line south of the gate.
laters.

[Robittybob1]

Sketches normally are a bit sketchy.
You could hardly expect poor old Jez to be on hols with a 30m tape and/or laser measure secreted in his luggage  just in case could you?.
Both Jez and Jane put "the spot" in an envelope approx 3500 to 4000 x 1500 with the long side running north south with the NW corner of the envelope being roughly by the gate. Bearing in mind the average human is crap at estimating mass, time and distance that is about as good you will get. Gerry on the other hand makes it an envelope approx 7000 x 1200 with the long side running east west and "the spot" on the NE corner of the envelope on an indeterminate line south of the gate.
laters.

What I see is more like drawing done by someone with early onset dementia.  I'm really surprised at the state of his handwriting etc, just about unbelievable TBH.

[sadie]

I'm not convinced for you have not shown where the pathway is .  "the pathway opposite the pool in the Tapas complex."  show it on a map please.
Can you see the path here?
What is your point in highlighting those words Sadie?

No, the path is just off the map to the right of the image.    I don’t have the technical know-how to show it on a map and post it.   The reason that I highlighted those words is that i think in his own "language" he is stating that he came out opposite the Tapas Reception after leaving the paths to the east via the little car park


OK Rob, I will try and explain my thoughts, even though I am not good with words and explaining, but here goes. 

Using the numbers on the image.

Immediately across the road and to the left of number 3 is what we call the Tapas Reception
Immediately below number 3 is what I call the “Little car park”


Jez is confusing to follow and I think that is partly because he has little concept of distance ... but also because he uses different names for places to us... so his language is different.

I am doubtful that he ever used the Tapas Restaurant or Bar,   It is quite likely that together, he and Brigette only used the pool and sun bathing terraces around the pool.  I am thinking that in their eyes, because to them, together, only using this area they only called it the Pool.   That they might talk about that entrance as “The Pool” rather than "The Tapas".


Thinking about myself here hypothetically

If I were hypothetically  directing someone locally with our town swimming pool as one of the important reference spots, I personally would not say “go the Swimmiing Pool entrance and then turn left”   I would abbreviate this to "go to the Swimming Pool and turn left"

I think that he is referring to the “Tapas Reception” as “The Pool”


I also think that when he refers to "the pathway opposite the pool in the Tapas”, he is referring to  the north south footpath (off picture but to the right) that comes out into the “little car park”, which is shown just below number 3

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/press/4aug7/mail-10-08-2007map.gif




The gate which Gerry left is hidden under  number 4 …. And the place that Amaral , Jez and Jane say  the Jez/Gerry chat happened is at the entrance to the path/alleyway immediately to the left (west) of  the TOP of number 3

In other words, as you can see from the image, the chat took place roughly half way between where Jez was when he first sighted Gerry and where Gerry himself was at that time.


Hope this helps.

AIMHO, but I know that it is possible that I could be wrong.

[sadie]

The words ""I have drawn a map of the complex and marked an X where I saw Jerry on Thursday evening ' JW 1. "  Is the clue.  This is just the spot where he first "saw Gerry" not where they stood and spoke.
Both of the men saw each other in a different place than where they stood and spoke.  They are both walking and how do you close that distance.  If Gerry came out of the gate which direction was he heading?  Where was Jez when he first saw Gerry and how did he close that distance?

It would be impossible to come together if they were walking in the same direction.
If they were on opposite sides of the road they could meet in the middle.  But they are both moving so the final meeting spot is not where they first saw each other unless one stands still.

Sorry Rob, but you are wrong on this.

Three seperate people, Jane, Jez and Amaral have very definitely pointed to the spot by the alleyway as being the spot where Gerry and Jez chatted.

This one of the things that Amaral got right

[faithlilly]

I don't see the point of  going into the minutiae of statements when it is apparent that none of them have identical recollections of the same event. 

IMO either you believe Jane Tanner gave her genuine recollection of what happened on her way back to check her children -  and that  Amaral  set out to discredit her version because it didn't suit his agenda for people to believe her.    Or you believe Amarals contention that she was not a credible witness and believe his attempts to prove that she wasn't were valid.

AFAIAC Jane Tanner had no reason to lie whilst imo Amaral had every reason at the time to convince the public that she should not be believed..   Why he is still continuing to do that now that crecheman has proved JT was telling the truth is anyone's guess.

If you believe the opposite and that she did have reason to lie and that Amaral is right to try to convince the public that she was not a credible witness  - then I am more than happy to hear your reasons why.

AIMHO

Amaral and his team were not the only trained detectives to think Tanner lacked credibility, the McCanns own PIs thought so too prompting them to suggest strenuously that the McCanns follow the Smithman lead rather than the Tanner sighting, a suggestion that in the fullness of time has shown to be absolutely correct.

[Robittybob1]

Sorry Rob, but you are wrong on this.

Three seperate people, Jane, Jez and Amaral have very definitely pointed to the spot by the alleyway as being the spot where Gerry and Jez chatted.

This one of the things that Amaral got right

I still don't agree.  But it may not be able to be sorted, even though it isn't that important to me as long as Jane is not made out to be an unreliable witness.

[Robittybob1]

No, the path is just off the map to the right of the image.   .......


I also think that when he refers to "the pathway opposite the pool in the Tapas”, he is referring to  the north south footpath (off picture but to the right) that comes out into the “little car park”, which is shown just below number 3

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/press/4aug7/mail-10-08-2007map.gif



...


Hope this helps.

AIMHO, but I know that it is possible that I could be wrong.

The spot I'm think he refers to " "the pathway opposite the pool in the Tapas complex." is the concrete path on the opposite side of the pool to the Tapas complex.  it is the thin whitish strip above the number 1 on the aerial view photo.

[sadie]

Mr Amaral himself proves that what Jane and Jez were saying is Correct.  They were standing in line with the alleyway.  See his recent video

Click on the subtitle icon (bottom right hand side) to turn the English subtitles on.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUHp85TyJ0Y

Admin note:

* The above media presentation is provided for discussion purposes                       
* Endorsement of such material is neither intended nor implied   


At about 15.54 Amaral points out the EXACT spot where Jez and Gerry were standing chatting.   Note the depth of the pavement at that point. About 9 feet

Please make the effort and look

Amaral confirms in a very definite manner exactly where Jez and Gerry were chatting
And he is agreeing with Jez and Jane.  They were chatting in the roadway/on the kerb just by the alleyway on the west side of  Rua Francisco GM


Three of them agreeing, including the Head Honcho.  No other proof needed

Jane passed Gerry and Jez, who were chatting by the alleyway in that spot.  Here the pavement was about 9 feet deep.

Plenty of passing space



The myth is over.  Trashed by Amaral.  Thank you Mr Amaral.



Please can we move on?

[sadie]

The spot I'm think he refers to " "the pathway opposite the pool in the Tapas complex." is the concrete path on the opposite side of the pool to the Tapas complex.  it is the thin whitish strip above the number 1 on the aerial view photo.

Sorry, Rob, but I think that you are totally wrong.

That pathway doesn't tie in with any of the statements or drawings.


Amaral himself has confirmed what Jane and Jez said in his video.

[faithlilly]

Mr Amaral himself proves that what Jane and Jez were saying is Correct.  They were standing in line with the alleyway.  See his recent video

Click on the subtitle icon (bottom right hand side) to turn the English subtitles on.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUHp85TyJ0Y

Admin note:

* The above media presentation is provided for discussion purposes                       
* Endorsement of such material is neither intended nor implied   


At about 15.54 Amaral points out the EXACT spot where Jez and Gerry were standing chatting.   Note the depth of the pavement at that point. About 9 feet

Please make the effort and look

Amaral confirms in a very definite manner exactly where Jez and Gerry were chatting
And he is agreeing with Jez and Jane.  They were chatting in the roadway/on the kerb just by the alleyway on the west side of  Rua Francisco GM


Three of them agreeing, including the Head Honcho.  No other proof needed

Jane passed Gerry and Jez, who were chatting by the alleyway in that spot.  Here the pavement was about 9 feet deep.

Plenty of passing space



The myth is over.  Trashed by Amaral.  Thank you Mr Amaral.



Please can we move on?

Tanner's drawing of where Jez/Gerry were standing.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P1/01_VOLUME_Ia_Page_50.jpg

Nowhere near the corner.

[sadie]

Amaral and his team were not the only trained detectives to think Tanner lacked credibility, the McCanns own PIs thought so too prompting them to suggest strenuously that the McCanns follow the Smithman lead rather than the Tanner sighting, a suggestion that in the fullness of time has shown to be absolutely correct.

Citation please.  I cannot recall any such suggestion that in the fullness of time was shown to be absolutely correct.

You will come up with that Citation, I hope Faith. 

[Robittybob1]

Sorry, Rob, but I think that you are totally wrong.

That pathway doesn't tie in with any of the statements or drawings.


Amaral himself has confirmed what Jane and Jez said in his video.

That pathway has nothing to do with the drawings I agree, and that is the reason I questioned you as to why you highlighted it in a previous post.  It is IMO just a description of the route he took to get back out of the complex prior to even seeing Gerry.

[sadie]

Tanner's drawing of where Jez/Gerry were standing.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P1/01_VOLUME_Ia_Page_50.jpg

Nowhere near the corner.

This was done in situ ... and we can see and hear Jane Tanner verbatim

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atfDV7imHHY

Starting at about 9.40

Jane was on the spot where it happened and she is very definite about the exact place.  By the alleyway.   Much better than trying to recollect in some office away from the place.   IMO it completely over- rides the one done in an office somewhere.

Her recollection in that video and Jezes drawing co-incide with Amarals video where he shows where it happened.  Also by the alleyway.

Jezes one description entirely points to that area too and another one where he talks about by "The Pool" also seems to refer to that area

Three people including the head Honcho confirm the same spot.

The spot was by that alleyway where there was plenty of room for Jane to pass ... about 9 feet!


Three agreeing statements would be more than anough in a Court Case, I think ... especially as one was by the Head Honcho


Can we move on please.  I haven't the time or energy to keep going over this.


Myth over. 

[Robittybob1]

Amaral and his team were not the only trained detectives to think Tanner lacked credibility, the McCanns own PIs thought so too prompting them to suggest strenuously that the McCanns follow the Smithman lead rather than the Tanner sighting, a suggestion that in the fullness of time has shown to be absolutely correct.

I think we need to work out whether Amaral thought the Smith's saw someone carrying a live or a dead girl.

Smith rang the PJ, and in an around about way, and implied he thought it was Gerry by the way he was carrying Sean off the plane.  Sean was alive so does he suggest the girl was likewise alive?   But in the documentary Enigma he seems to say the Smiths saw a man carrying a dead child.