Author Topic: CMTV Gonçalo Amaral - O Enigma - with English subtitles  (Read 230880 times)

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Offline Robittybob1

Re: CMTV Gonçalo Amaral - O Enigma - with English subtitles
« Reply #585 on: June 13, 2017, 09:40:05 AM »
Would you expect to find cellular material from a cadaver on the key fob?

I'm not up to speed on the dog alerts, but, if my understanding is correct, the cadaver 'scent' are compounds given off from a decomposing body. These adhere to surfaces and may be transferred from place to place.

It does not appear that these VOCs and DNA have to be in the same place.

If this is correct then the VOCs could transfer to somebody's hand and then transfer to the key fob. Any DNA found could be from the person who transferred the VOCs.

By the same token if Madeleine's DNA had been found in the apartment I do not see how that would prove the cadaver scent, if it existed, belonged to Madeleine, because you would expect to find Madeleine's DNA in the apartment.

The dogs appear to be a tool to raise 'suspicions' to be investigated, but can do little more than that.
You are very clever picking up on those two points. 
I think it would have been unusual to find Madeleine's DNA as a pure sample in the hire car, but it wasn't found. Only 15 out of the 19 markers required for Madeleine were found, and it was not a pure sample but a mixture of three or more persons.
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Offline Brietta

Re: CMTV Gonçalo Amaral - O Enigma - with English subtitles
« Reply #586 on: June 13, 2017, 12:58:21 PM »
Would you expect to find cellular material from a cadaver on the key fob?

I'm not up to speed on the dog alerts, but, if my understanding is correct, the cadaver 'scent' are compounds given off from a decomposing body. These adhere to surfaces and may be transferred from place to place.

It does not appear that these VOCs and DNA have to be in the same place.

If this is correct then the VOCs could transfer to somebody's hand and then transfer to the key fob. Any DNA found could be from the person who transferred the VOCs.

By the same token if Madeleine's DNA had been found in the apartment I do not see how that would prove the cadaver scent, if it existed, belonged to Madeleine, because you would expect to find Madeleine's DNA in the apartment.

The dogs appear to be a tool to raise 'suspicions' to be investigated, but can do little more than that.

I think you have put that succinctly.
I think most of us non-experts on this forum have read and understood what the experts (and I include Martin Grime in this) have told us.
I think a lot of the persistent misunderstanding and in Portugal, the continued acceptance of Amaral's very inexpert opinions being celebrated in TV programmes marking ten years of a missing child, is down to ignoring what the experts have to say.
I think when the penny finally drops there may very well be a horribly embarrassed viewing public in Portugal.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline G-Unit

Re: CMTV Gonçalo Amaral - O Enigma - with English subtitles
« Reply #587 on: June 13, 2017, 02:44:00 PM »
I think you have put that succinctly.
I think most of us non-experts on this forum have read and understood what the experts (and I include Martin Grime in this) have told us.
I think a lot of the persistent misunderstanding and in Portugal, the continued acceptance of Amaral's very inexpert opinions being celebrated in TV programmes marking ten years of a missing child, is down to ignoring what the experts have to say.
I think when the penny finally drops there may very well be a horribly embarrassed viewing public in Portugal.

It seems to be a common misconception that anyone with doubts about the case has been influenced by Amaral. His influence on people's opinions is unknown. 
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Offline Mr Gray

Re: CMTV Gonçalo Amaral - O Enigma - with English subtitles
« Reply #588 on: June 13, 2017, 04:17:38 PM »
It seems to be a common misconception that anyone with doubts about the case has been influenced by Amaral. His influence on people's opinions is unknown.

I think many have been influenced by amaral...his tv appearances must have had some effect.


Offline G-Unit

Re: CMTV Gonçalo Amaral - O Enigma - with English subtitles
« Reply #589 on: June 13, 2017, 07:06:33 PM »
I think many have been influenced by amaral...his tv appearances must have had some effect.

I don't think many have been influenced by amaral...his tv appearances may have had no effect.

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Offline Brietta

Re: CMTV Gonçalo Amaral - O Enigma - with English subtitles
« Reply #590 on: June 13, 2017, 07:27:51 PM »
I don't think many have been influenced by amaral...his tv appearances may have had no effect.

Indeed.
Why would anyone be influenced by a man whose conduct of Madeleine's case resulted in his ignominious sacking?
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: CMTV Gonçalo Amaral - O Enigma - with English subtitles
« Reply #591 on: June 13, 2017, 08:07:03 PM »
Indeed.
Why would anyone be influenced by a man whose conduct of Madeleine's case resulted in his ignominious sacking?

The ignominious event on display was the McCann's losing their case against Amaral.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: CMTV Gonçalo Amaral - O Enigma - with English subtitles
« Reply #592 on: June 28, 2017, 08:07:04 AM »
Several of the important points made by amaral in this video simply re not true....so the question is why is amaral making them....does he simply not understand the facts in this case.

amaral has been found guilty of lying by the portuguese court. He appealed and the conviction was upheld. His lies in this instance were to pervert the course of justice.

How can anyone have any respect for this man
« Last Edit: June 28, 2017, 07:05:51 PM by Slartibartfast »

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: CMTV Gonçalo Amaral - O Enigma - with English subtitles
« Reply #593 on: June 28, 2017, 08:27:40 AM »
Several of the important points made by amaral in this video simply re not true....so the question is why is amaral making them....does he simply not understand the facts in this case.

amaral has been found guilty of lying by the portuguese court. He appealed and the conviction was upheld. His lies in this instance were to pervert the course of justice.

How can anyone have any respect for this man

Perhaps you would like to remind us of the outcome of the legal action against Amaral in this case ?

As to respect, I cannot fathom how some people  have respect for parents who endangered their children.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2017, 07:06:15 PM by Slartibartfast »

Offline Mr Gray

Re: CMTV Gonçalo Amaral - O Enigma - with English subtitles
« Reply #594 on: June 28, 2017, 08:29:08 AM »
Perhaps you would like to remind us of the outcome of the legal action against Amaral in this case ?

As to respect, I cannot fathom how some people  have respect for parents who endangered their children.

your post does not answer the points made in my post...if you are going to reply perhaps you could answer the post

Offline G-Unit

Re: CMTV Gonçalo Amaral - O Enigma - with English subtitles
« Reply #595 on: June 28, 2017, 08:37:23 AM »
Several of the important points made by amaral in this video simply re not true....so the question is why is amaral making them....does he simply not understand the facts in this case.

amaral has been found guilty of lying by the portuguese court. He appealed and the conviction was upheld. His lies in this instance were to pervert the course of justice.

How can anyone have any respect for this man

He falsified documents to help his officers. Terrible! We will discover today if anyone will face charges for their actions in the Hillsborough case. Apparently police and survivor statements were altered to cover up what happened. Terrible!
« Last Edit: June 28, 2017, 07:06:46 PM by Slartibartfast »
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Offline Benice

Re: CMTV Gonçalo Amaral - O Enigma - with English subtitles
« Reply #596 on: June 28, 2017, 10:33:50 AM »
He falsified documents to help his officers. Terrible! We will discover today if anyone will face charges for their actions in the Hillsborough case. Apparently police and survivor statements were altered to cover up what happened. Terrible!

If that is true then I hope they are prosecuted. 

 I doubt if there is a police force in the world that is totally  corruption free.    Are you saying we must not criticise Amaral for being a corrupt policeman,  with a conviction to prove it  - on the grounds that he isn't the only one?   Surely not.

IMO
The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

Offline Mr Gray

Re: CMTV Gonçalo Amaral - O Enigma - with English subtitles
« Reply #597 on: June 28, 2017, 10:59:10 AM »
He falsified documents to help his officers. Terrible! We will discover today if anyone will face charges for their actions in the Hillsborough case. Apparently police and survivor statements were altered to cover up what happened. Terrible!

He lied in order to pervert the course of justice
That is terrible

Offline G-Unit

Re: CMTV Gonçalo Amaral - O Enigma - with English subtitles
« Reply #598 on: June 28, 2017, 11:06:09 AM »
If that is true then I hope they are prosecuted. 

 I doubt if there is a police force in the world that is totally  corruption free.    Are you saying we must not criticise Amaral for being a corrupt policeman,  with a conviction to prove it  - on the grounds that he isn't the only one?   Surely not.

IMO

He did what policemen, doctors, nurses and no doubt countless others have done; covered for his colleagues. Criticise him by all means for what he did; he deserves it as do all who do similar things.

I find it unacceptable to suggest that all or any of these people are bad people or habitual liars however. It doesn't necessarily follow.
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Offline Eleanor

Re: CMTV Gonçalo Amaral - O Enigma - with English subtitles
« Reply #599 on: June 28, 2017, 11:11:47 AM »
He did what policemen, doctors, nurses and no doubt countless others have done; covered for his colleagues. Criticise him by all means for what he did; he deserves it as do all who do similar things.

I find it unacceptable to suggest that all or any of these people are bad people or habitual liars however. It doesn't necessarily follow.

But then most people don't get a Conviction for Lying.