Author Topic: CMTV Gonçalo Amaral - O Enigma - with English subtitles  (Read 252010 times)

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Offline sadie

Re: CMTV Gonçalo Amaral - O Enigma - with English subtitles
« Reply #885 on: September 12, 2017, 12:29:32 PM »
Was he walking down toward the supermarket to cross her field of view from the left to the right?  Therefore he wasn't heading towards Murat's house at all then?
Which direction was he walking? Name the road?  Rua Dr. Augustino or  Rua Dr. Gentil Martins or neither of these.

One of the points of Jane identifying Robert Murat was that the person seen may have been Robert Murat walking toward his residence.  That tends to define the location and direction doesn't it?  Is this another of Amaral multi  pronged theories one of which could be correct if he comes up with enough of them.
I think that as jane was only able to show the back of his head (part side view), that he was walking tiowards Murats house.  Had he been walking in the direction of the man supposedly returning from the creche to his appartment, she would have had an three quarter full face view of him.  That she obviously didn't have

Offline pathfinder73

Re: CMTV Gonçalo Amaral - O Enigma - with English subtitles
« Reply #886 on: September 12, 2017, 12:33:23 PM »
There no comparison IMO.  They had to choose one of the remembered places - and they chose Gerry's.

Amaral on the other hand -  ignored the evidence of all three witnesses and HE decided to place them where HE wanted them to be.   It cannot be ignored that his depiction was completely untrue -and imo it doesn't take rocket science to see why he would do that.       

 IMO Once Murat was off the hook and he turned his full attention onto the McCanns - JT's sighting became thoroughly inconvenient to his 'theory'.      In my opinion, after reading his book and from what he has said about JT in interviews - his aim was to discredit her as a witness because of that.

What other reason could there be.

AIMHO


Jane Tanner kept changing her mind. First it was overweight clean shaven Murat then it was skinny hairy George Harrison - they don't look alike at all! Finally the truth was discovered by SY and the man Jane saw was cleared. A detective is not going to believe the words of a suspect not cleared as being the truth until they have fully investigated it. You would have to be a gullible fool to think otherwise.
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: CMTV Gonçalo Amaral - O Enigma - with English subtitles
« Reply #887 on: September 12, 2017, 12:42:31 PM »
Murat looks nothing like David Payne.


They strongly resemble each other.


Offline misty

Re: CMTV Gonçalo Amaral - O Enigma - with English subtitles
« Reply #888 on: September 12, 2017, 05:17:23 PM »

They strongly resemble each other.

Not when you've left one sitting at the dining table they don't.

Offline misty

Re: CMTV Gonçalo Amaral - O Enigma - with English subtitles
« Reply #889 on: September 12, 2017, 05:21:06 PM »
Let it all out Misty - now do you feel better? There are two routes back so both are a possibility.

To suggest that JT did not take the route she reported in her witness testimonies is libellous without proof to the contrary.

Offline Benice

Re: CMTV Gonçalo Amaral - O Enigma - with English subtitles
« Reply #890 on: September 12, 2017, 05:24:46 PM »
Jane Tanner kept changing her mind. First it was overweight clean shaven Murat then it was skinny hairy George Harrison - they don't look alike at all! Finally the truth was discovered by SY and the man Jane saw was cleared. A detective is not going to believe the words of a suspect not cleared as being the truth until they have fully investigated it. You would have to be a gullible fool to think otherwise.

JT did not change her mind.  She never once identified Murat as the man she had seen.   The George Harrison face was not composed from her description.     She didn't see his face and so could not possibly describe it.   IIRC JT and another person both gave the artist their separate descriptions which were then combined by the artist to form one full length picture - which JT considered to be 80% accurate.    She could not say it was 100% accurate because she did not see 100% of the man.  - i.e. she didn't see his face.
IMO

(from memory - so am happy to be corrected if necessary)


The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

Offline faithlilly

Re: CMTV Gonçalo Amaral - O Enigma - with English subtitles
« Reply #891 on: September 12, 2017, 05:30:51 PM »
There no comparison IMO.  They had to choose one of the remembered places - and they chose Gerry's.

Amaral on the other hand -  ignored the evidence of all three witnesses and HE decided to place them where HE wanted them to be.   It cannot be ignored that his depiction was completely untrue -and imo it doesn't take rocket science to see why he would do that.       

 IMO Once Murat was off the hook and he turned his full attention onto the McCanns - JT's sighting became thoroughly inconvenient to his 'theory'.      In my opinion, after reading his book and from what he has said about JT in interviews - his aim was to discredit her as a witness because of that.

What other reason could there be.

AIMHO

Firstly I believe where Amaral placed Jez and company is exactly where Jez himself said they were.

Secondly can you hazard a guess why when two of the witnesses agree the position of the main protagonists it was decided that the third witness was correct in his recollection ? Let me put it this way Benice, if there are five witnesses to an accident and four of them claim the accident happened in a certain way but the fifth disagrees who's opinion do you think would carry the greater weight?
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Brietta

Re: CMTV Gonçalo Amaral - O Enigma - with English subtitles
« Reply #892 on: September 12, 2017, 05:38:27 PM »
Firstly I believe where Amaral placed Jez and company is exactly where Jez himself said they were.

Secondly can you hazard a guess why when two of the witnesses agree the position of the main protagonists it was decided that the third witness was correct in his recollection ? Let me put it this way Benice, if there are five witnesses to an accident and four of them claim the accident happened in a certain way but the fifth disagrees who's opinion do you think would carry the greater weight?

In my opinion in this instance the men were bit players.  Jane Tanner was the witness.  She witnessed the men in conversation.  She witnessed the child carrier at the top of the street ahead of her.

What exactly did the men see?  Jeremy's son and each other.

Jane also corroborated Jeremy's statement and Gerry's statement that they met and had a brief conversation.

She is a very important witness.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Benice

Re: CMTV Gonçalo Amaral - O Enigma - with English subtitles
« Reply #893 on: September 12, 2017, 06:01:00 PM »
Firstly I believe where Amaral placed Jez and company is exactly where Jez himself said they were.

Secondly can you hazard a guess why when two of the witnesses agree the position of the main protagonists it was decided that the third witness was correct in his recollection ? Let me put it this way Benice, if there are five witnesses to an accident and four of them claim the accident happened in a certain way but the fifth disagrees who's opinion do you think would carry the greater weight?

Jez did not place himself, his buggy and Gerry in the middle of the pavement in the path of JT who had to move slightly to avoid brushing against one of them as she passed.   

I have no idea why they decided to use Gerry's recollection of where he stood in the video as I was not privy to the discussions.

IMO because both JT and Jez have similar recollections - then I think they were probably right and Gerry was wrong.

None of that makes any difference to the fact that Amarals depiction of where they stood is not from the witness statements,  it was his own invention - for his own reasons - and is derogatory to JT as it makes a mockery of her description of where Gerry and Jez stood.    IMO It also makes a mockery out of his claim that his theory was based on the files.  None the allegations, sneers etc which he makes about JT in order to discredit her as a witness can be found in the files.

IMO



 
The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

Offline slartibartfast

Re: CMTV Gonçalo Amaral - O Enigma - with English subtitles
« Reply #894 on: September 12, 2017, 07:12:14 PM »
To suggest that JT did not take the route she reported in her witness testimonies is libellous without proof to the contrary.

It would be libellous to suggest she lied but not to suggest she may be mistaken.
“Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired”.

Offline pathfinder73

Re: CMTV Gonçalo Amaral - O Enigma - with English subtitles
« Reply #895 on: September 12, 2017, 07:28:48 PM »
Jez did not place himself, his buggy and Gerry in the middle of the pavement in the path of JT who had to move slightly to avoid brushing against one of them as she passed.   

I have no idea why they decided to use Gerry's recollection of where he stood in the video as I was not privy to the discussions.

IMO because both JT and Jez have similar recollections - then I think they were probably right and Gerry was wrong.

None of that makes any difference to the fact that Amarals depiction of where they stood is not from the witness statements,  it was his own invention - for his own reasons - and is derogatory to JT as it makes a mockery of her description of where Gerry and Jez stood.    IMO It also makes a mockery out of his claim that his theory was based on the files.  None the allegations, sneers etc which he makes about JT in order to discredit her as a witness can be found in the files.

IMO

When did Jane say she had to avoid them and brush past?

Fact is Jane couldn't remember passing them because she said she would have given Gerry stick for being gone so long. That did not happen from your reliable witness - she cannot remember the full details as she is not sure what actually happened! God knows how you can believe she could brush past two people on a quiet deserted street without either noticing her. That is too daft for words. Jez was adamant Jane did not pass him.
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline faithlilly

Re: CMTV Gonçalo Amaral - O Enigma - with English subtitles
« Reply #896 on: September 12, 2017, 07:56:17 PM »
In my opinion in this instance the men were bit players.  Jane Tanner was the witness.  She witnessed the men in conversation.  She witnessed the child carrier at the top of the street ahead of her.

What exactly did the men see?  Jeremy's son and each other.

Jane also corroborated Jeremy's statement and Gerry's statement that they met and had a brief conversation.

She is a very important witness.

No she isn't. SY have all but excluded the man allegedly seen by Tanner as a suspect. Tanner's sighting has not relevance whatsoever.

Pity though that the McCanns PIs chose to back Tanner's sighting instead of the one SY is now following. Lack of funds was cited. Enough money to sue but not to follow up important leads it would appear.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2017, 07:31:46 PM by John »
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Brietta

Re: CMTV Gonçalo Amaral - O Enigma - with English subtitles
« Reply #897 on: September 12, 2017, 08:23:40 PM »
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Brietta

Re: CMTV Gonçalo Amaral - O Enigma - with English subtitles
« Reply #898 on: September 12, 2017, 08:28:23 PM »
No she isn't. SY have all but excluded the man allegedly seen by Tanner as a suspect. Tanner's sighting has not relevance whatsoever.

Pity though that the McCanns PIs chose to back Tanner's sighting instead of the one SY is now following. Lack of funds was cited. Enough money to sue but not to follow up important leads it would appear.

Please remember to add caveats when stating opinions.  Facts require cites.  Thank you
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline pathfinder73

Re: CMTV Gonçalo Amaral - O Enigma - with English subtitles
« Reply #899 on: September 12, 2017, 08:35:53 PM »

I's a contradiction because Tanner did not flip-flop over them. Do a reconstruction if you have doubts. Tannerman is cleared, the other sighting of efits not released for years is not.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2017, 08:38:21 PM by pathfinder73 »
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.