Author Topic: CMTV Gonçalo Amaral - O Enigma - with English subtitles  (Read 251926 times)

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Offline Miss Taken Identity

Re: CMTV Gonçalo Amaral - O Enigma - with English subtitles
« Reply #1320 on: September 20, 2017, 10:45:31 PM »
As the coordinator of the investigation, Amaral had a duty to ensure that a potentially very important sighting of a possible abductor was investigated.  He chose to do nothing after the MS said the man definitely not Murat
but then elected to do something after the McCanns had walked quickly followed by MS's fresh assertion that he was fairly sure the man he saw on 3rd May was Gerry. Either MS was a reliable witness or he wasn't - that seems to have depended on the line of inquiry being pursued.

Misty can you give us the other choices Amaral had? You said he chose to do nothing why would that be? It appears  you are claiming Amaral didn't want to find Maddie.
'Never underestimate the power of stupid people'... George Carlin

Offline misty

Re: CMTV Gonçalo Amaral - O Enigma - with English subtitles
« Reply #1321 on: September 20, 2017, 11:01:51 PM »
Misty can you give us the other choices Amaral had? You said he chose to do nothing why would that be? It appears  you are claiming Amaral didn't want to find Maddie.

Amaral could have started where Rebelo did in October 2007 - by checking out the Smith family's timeline that evening beginning with the Dolphin Restaurant, Kelly's Bar & other places in the locale. Perhaps the PJ would even have been in time to retrieve the CCTV footage on the camera outside Estrela da Luz where the Smiths were staying. Instead, like the Smith family on 4/5 - 16/5 2007, he & his team chose to do nothing about it.

Offline faithlilly

Re: CMTV Gonçalo Amaral - O Enigma - with English subtitles
« Reply #1322 on: September 20, 2017, 11:25:00 PM »
Amaral could have started where Rebelo did in October 2007 - by checking out the Smith family's timeline that evening beginning with the Dolphin Restaurant, Kelly's Bar & other places in the locale. Perhaps the PJ would even have been in time to retrieve the CCTV footage on the camera outside Estrela da Luz where the Smiths were staying. Instead, like the Smith family on 4/5 - 16/5 2007, he & his team chose to do nothing about it.

I would assume the reason Rebelo checked the Smith's timeline was to find out if it was possible for Gerry to have been the man they saw. Before Martin Smith gave his statement identifying Gerry there would be no reason for Amaral or Rebelo to delve further into the times he and his family said they saw Smithman. They were, after all, only witnesses.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline misty

Re: CMTV Gonçalo Amaral - O Enigma - with English subtitles
« Reply #1323 on: September 20, 2017, 11:35:18 PM »
I would assume the reason Rebelo checked the Smith's timeline was to find out if it was possible for Gerry to have been the man they saw. Before Martin Smith gave his statement identifying Gerry there would be no reason for Amaral or Rebelo to delve further into the times he and his family said they saw Smithman. They were, after all, only witnesses.

They were witnesses important enough for Amaral to have them secretly flown back to Portugal, make detailed statements & engage in a walk-through reconstruction at the scene of the sighting. The Smiths allegedly witnessed a lone man carrying a child of a similar age to Madeleine & wearing clothing likened to those in Madeleine's description - and that wasn't important enough to follow up in a suspected abduction case? Please.....

Offline faithlilly

Re: CMTV Gonçalo Amaral - O Enigma - with English subtitles
« Reply #1324 on: September 20, 2017, 11:52:49 PM »
They were witnesses important enough for Amaral to have them secretly flown back to Portugal, make detailed statements & engage in a walk-through reconstruction at the scene of the sighting. The Smiths allegedly witnessed a lone man carrying a child of a similar age to Madeleine & wearing clothing likened to those in Madeleine's description - and that wasn't important enough to follow up in a suspected abduction case? Please.....

It was important enough to follow it up and as you have detailed above this is exactly what Amaral did. What wasn't important was to question the time it happened. All the family gave the same approximate time so why, if they were only witnesses, would further proof be needed ? It was only once MS had identified Gerry that the timeline became more important.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline misty

Re: CMTV Gonçalo Amaral - O Enigma - with English subtitles
« Reply #1325 on: September 21, 2017, 12:11:08 AM »
It was important enough to follow it up and as you have detailed above this is exactly what Amaral did. What wasn't important was to question the time it happened. All the family gave the same approximate time so why, if they were only witnesses, would further proof be needed ? It was only once MS had identified Gerry that the timeline became more important.

Could you please explain why, in Amaral's mind, investigating a sighting of potential abductor held no importance whatsoever but a witness who was fundamental to implicating GM was deemed important enough to bring him back to Portugal?

https://youtu.be/tUHp85TyJ0Y?t=1155 up to 21m30

Note Amaral equating the sighting with the person under investigation at the time (Murat).

Offline faithlilly

Re: CMTV Gonçalo Amaral - O Enigma - with English subtitles
« Reply #1326 on: September 21, 2017, 12:40:02 AM »
Could you please explain why, in Amaral's mind, investigating a sighting of potential abductor held no importance whatsoever but a witness who was fundamental to implicating GM was deemed important enough to bring him back to Portugal?

https://youtu.be/tUHp85TyJ0Y?t=1155 up to 21m30

Note Amaral equating the sighting with the person under investigation at the time (Murat).

No I couldn't tell you that as I am not Amaral and am not privy to his thought processes. What I can tell you is that Amaral thought the Smith sighting was important enough to bring three of the family back to Portugal to go into the circumstances of that sighting. The whole family agreed on the time the sighting happened so there was no point in gathering further evidence of this at that time.

Of course as we all now know due to SY's elimination of Tannerman, Amaral's focus on Smithman has been absolutely vindicated.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline misty

Re: CMTV Gonçalo Amaral - O Enigma - with English subtitles
« Reply #1327 on: September 21, 2017, 12:57:19 AM »
No I couldn't tell you that as I am not Amaral and am not privy to his thought processes. What I can tell you is that Amaral thought the Smith sighting was important enough to bring three of the family back to Portugal to go into the circumstances of that sighting. The whole family agreed on the time the sighting happened so there was no point in gathering further evidence of this at that time.

Of course as we all now know due to SY's elimination of Tannerman, Amaral's focus on Smithman has been absolutely vindicated.

Have you actually watched O Enigma? Jane's sighting "never happened as she said" &  Amaral has Tannerman heading towards the location of the Smith sighting. In a warped sense, Amaral is implying that Jane was watching Gerry carrying Madeleine!! How can that be explained, given the time lapse & independent witnesses?

Offline Brietta

Re: CMTV Gonçalo Amaral - O Enigma - with English subtitles
« Reply #1328 on: September 21, 2017, 01:14:08 AM »
Could you please explain why, in Amaral's mind, investigating a sighting of potential abductor held no importance whatsoever but a witness who was fundamental to implicating GM was deemed important enough to bring him back to Portugal?

https://youtu.be/tUHp85TyJ0Y?t=1155 up to 21m30

Note Amaral equating the sighting with the person under investigation at the time (Murat).

The imperative in my opinion was Amaral's theory and his determination there was no abductor.

Therefore in the period between the three Smith's return to Portugal to be interviewed by the police on 26 May 2007 and Martin Smith's recollection of 20 September 2007 the Smith sighting was a footnote in history because it suggested an abduction.
Nothing was done about it for nearly five months.  Quite extraordinary when you think about it.

Jane Tanner had failed to identify Murat.  Martin Smith had specifically exonerated Murat as the carrier he had seen and in my opinion, an expensive lawyer would have chewed that up and spat it out in a court case.

Interest was only shown in the Smith sighting when after five months Martin Smith reported Madeleine's father as resembling the man he had passed in the street.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Brietta

Re: CMTV Gonçalo Amaral - O Enigma - with English subtitles
« Reply #1329 on: September 21, 2017, 01:17:24 AM »
Have you actually watched O Enigma? Jane's sighting "never happened as she said" &  Amaral has Tannerman heading towards the location of the Smith sighting. In a warped sense, Amaral is implying that Jane was watching Gerry carrying Madeleine!! How can that be explained, given the time lapse & independent witnesses?

It is quite a bizarre implication ... given that a few frames prior to that he had Jane squeezing past Gerry and Jez on the pavement.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Robittybob1

Re: CMTV Gonçalo Amaral - O Enigma - with English subtitles
« Reply #1330 on: September 21, 2017, 01:26:24 AM »
You refer to Gerry looking uncomfortable and, after watching the video, conclude that Sean didn't look uncomfortable. I thought you were discussing Gerry?
I think you have to refer to his original statement to get the context. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_SMITH.htm  "He adds that he did not hold the child in a comfortable position, suggesting [the carrying] not being habitual. "  That is comfortable for the carrier IMO.

But Sean being carried by Gerry looks perfectly comfortable, if there is any discomfort it is Gerry when he looks at the crowd there to greet him.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2017, 04:19:51 AM by Robittybob1 »
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Offline John

Re: CMTV Gonçalo Amaral - O Enigma - with English subtitles
« Reply #1331 on: September 21, 2017, 03:19:28 AM »
Jane Tanner has never deviated from the initial description she gave to the police ... including the fact she didn't see the man's face.
IMO She has never identified Murat as that man ... and why Amaral makes the claim that she did is puzzling to say the least.

I believe her identification was based solely on the way he walked.  How a positive identification can be claimed on that basis is anyones guess but in any event, had he been the individual I'm sure a simple search of his nearby villa would have identified the clothing which Jane claimed the man she saw was wearing.  Again, not rocket science but good old basic detective work.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2017, 03:37:24 AM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline John

Re: CMTV Gonçalo Amaral - O Enigma - with English subtitles
« Reply #1332 on: September 21, 2017, 03:40:59 AM »
I think you have to refer to his original statement to get the context. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_SMITH.htm  "He adds that he did not hold the child in a comfortable position, suggesting [the carrying] not being habitual. "  That is comfortable for the carrier IMO.

Martin Smith stated that the man he saw was definitely not Robert Murat so he must have got a good look at his face.
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline G-Unit

Re: CMTV Gonçalo Amaral - O Enigma - with English subtitles
« Reply #1333 on: September 21, 2017, 09:11:03 AM »
I would assume the reason Rebelo checked the Smith's timeline was to find out if it was possible for Gerry to have been the man they saw. Before Martin Smith gave his statement identifying Gerry there would be no reason for Amaral or Rebelo to delve further into the times he and his family said they saw Smithman. They were, after all, only witnesses.

Rebelo's next move was to try to organise the reconstitution. The witnesses refused to attend and gave their reasons. Their refusal, of course, opened the door to speculation as to why.
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Offline Benice

Re: CMTV Gonçalo Amaral - O Enigma - with English subtitles
« Reply #1334 on: September 21, 2017, 09:14:22 AM »
Can you prove those sentences are unfinished? You can't, so you're speculating. Even if they are, so what? People leave sentences unfinished for all sorts of reasons.

I don’t think it was him that I saw”.

4078    “No”.
Reply    “But I just thought it was”.

Jane says she doesn't think it was him that she saw. She's referring to what she thinks at present, during the interview. Then she tells us what she thought in the past; she thought then that it was him.


If you read the following in it's entirety and not just take a few words out of context , it's obvious to me that the discussion is about Fiona, Rachel and Russells  claims that Murat was there on the 3rd May.    It's not about whether JT identified him or not at that stage of the interview.

JT  is saying that she thought it was important to make it clear during this interview - the details of what happened after Murat appeared on TV and the reasons why they rang Bob Small and to clarify that she had not told anyone about the ID parade - so there was no possibility that they had colluded at the time they rang him. etc etc

 JT wanted to make it clear that none of them knew that RM had denied being there when they rang Bob Small.

IMO 'but I just thought it was'  would probably have had the word 'important etc' after it, had she finished the sentence, which would fit in with the other bolded comments in her statement.
AIMHO


Quote from JT Rog
 Reply    “Erm well I think it’s when I’d done the, well I did the surveillance and then the next day after that, I think it came on Sky News about whether they were searching, what the MURAT’s house, so that’s Rachel sort of came running down at that point and sort of said, have you seen this blah, blah and at this point, nobody knew that I’d done the surveillance cos the Portuguese Police were very adamant that I shouldn’t tell anybody and I didn’t tell anybody for days actually, I didn’t even tell them then that it was actually, that I’d done it, I mean it was a couple of days afterwards.  So Rachel came down and sort of said, oh I saw him blah, blah, blah and then I think Russell, I can’t remember who else but then somebody else said oh they, they saw him and etc., so at that point it was, I rang Bob SMALL cos I’d got, I’d got his number from the day before for them and you know, they sort of, you know to say, oh is this, is this relevant and also I wanted to tell him that I’d seen him on the way to the doing the surveillance as well yeah just for that, so I think it’s just to make the point really that I think at that point, they didn’t know that Robert MURAT said he wasn’t there on the night”.
4078    “Right”.
 Reply    “You know, or said yeah, had said that he wasn’t there on the night, so you know was immediately, I think it was immediately, I’m not trying to push anything onto Robert MURAT’s door, cos as I say I don’t think it was him that I saw”.
4078    “No”.
 Reply    “But I just thought it was”.
4078    “Because there had been some dispute as to whether they’ve actually seen him when they’ve said they’ve seen him”.
 Reply    “Yeah I think, I just want to make it clear that from my own point of view, they gave that information as soon as it came onto Sky and asked and you know they were sort of like, oh let’s ring Bob SMALL to see if it’s relevant at this point and at that point, none of us knew that he wasn’t there on you know, that he didn’t say that he was there on the night and”.
4078    “Yes”.
 Reply    “And I, I mean I didn’t myself see him on the night at all but somebody did say to me, who translated for you, was it the lady or the man and it, it was the lady, I said, Sylvie and I hadn’t seen a man but again I don’t know whether that has any relevance that there was somebody else there translating, you know during the night so”.
4078    “Okay, that’s certainly a point worth bringing up when we interview the other people that have seen him there on the night”.
 Reply    “Yeah exactly, I’m not trying to, cos I feel you know, if he’s not involved, the poor chap’s had as much crap as us really, I feel very, you know, he’s not involved but I do think it’s important that”.
4078    “Get to the truth of the matter”?
 Reply    “Get to the truth of the matter and the truth is you know they, when they asked me to ring Bob SMALL to make these statements, we didn’t even know that he’d erm, hadn’t, hadn’t said he was there on the night and they didn’t know that I’d done the surveillance”.
4078    “No”.
 Reply    “Because I took it seriously”.
4078    “So there’s no collaboration between you all”?
 Reply    “No”.
 4078    “(Inaudible) completely independent other than that”?
 Reply    “No, I hadn’t even, I mean when I got back, I didn’t even tell Russell what I’d done cos I took very seriously what the Police said in terms of not you know, not telling anybody”.
4078    “Yes”.
 Reply    “So I just thought it was important to say that really”.
4078    “Yes”.
 Reply    “(Inaudible), it’s not trying to build more of a case against him at all, it’s just my involvement in that side”.
4078    “Truth to what happened that night”?
 Reply    “Yeah”.
4078    “It’s, is how they’ve said it, it’s not something you concocted up between you”.
 Reply    “No, it was”.
4078    “And come to a conclusion that that must have been him”?
 Reply    “Yeah”.
4078    “That’s genuinely was something at the time”?
 Reply    “Yeah sort of at the time yeah”.

End quote

The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal