Who was the mystery couple?

[Robittybob1]

That is not how it works Robitty.  She was not a lone ranger.  She behaved inappropriately without benefit of any germane information, authorisation or benefit of case conferences.

Do not forget ... Yvonne Martin was a complete stranger to Madeleine's parents ... if she was a bona fide child care worker haven't you stopped to wonder that the absolute last thing on her mind was the welfare of Madeleine's siblings.

I mentioned the other children.

[Robittybob1]

Were she a UK Social Worker she would have been employed by a County Council or equivalent municipal body. It's improbable her authority extended into the next county let alone another country.
UK officers have no authority abroad unless granted by the State they are in, this includes the police.
The incident smacks to me of "Nosey Neighbour Syndrome".
I wish to be associated with the remarks of Misty above re FCO.

Well is there any evidence she got reprimanded when she returned to the UK?

[Alice Purjorick]

Well is there any evidence she got reprimanded when she returned to the UK?

Why would there be evidence of reprimand? if there is it might be on her Human Remains file at the appropriate City Hall.
If you knew how secretive child welfare is in the UK and how secretive UK "City Halls" are in general you wouldn't bother asking the question.

[Robittybob1]

Why would there be evidence of reprimand? if there is it might be on her Human Remains file at the appropriate City Hall.
If you knew how secretive child welfare is in the UK and how secretive UK "City Halls" are in general you wouldn't bother asking the question.

But we are super sleuths on here.

Well it must have been a mighty coincidence that she knew Dave then.

[Robittybob1]

Amaral must have been astounded at her insight
"She adds that on one occasion, because it had occurred to her that the parents and the friends could eventually be involved in the child's disappearance, she wrote an anonymous letter to the British police.

The statements given to the PJ today by Yvonne Martin provide a concrete clarification of the reasons for her suspicions, which in my opinion, do not point to any concrete element that could, in any way, make other inquiries directly related to her statements, viable.

[Robittybob1]

Why would there be evidence of reprimand? if there is it might be on her Human Remains file at the appropriate City Hall.
If you knew how secretive child welfare is in the UK and how secretive UK "City Halls" are in general you wouldn't bother asking the question.

The PJ went around to her home "and this was her motivation. "- Having worked for 25 years in the area of child protection, she felt obliged to offer help to her compatriots and went to Praia da Luz."


Nothing particularly wrong with that consdidering other concerned citizen assisted in the search for Madeleine.

Obviously Kate appreciated her assistence to begin with "- She identified herself and presented her credentials and immediately began talking to the mother of the missing child as she was visibly upset with the situation.

- During the conversation the mother told her that she did not understand why a couple had abducted her daughter."
Then the person who she had prior dealings with actively blocked further communication.  I think she was right in reporting this to the Police.

[Alice Purjorick]

But we are super sleuths on here.

Well it must have been a mighty coincidence that she knew Dave then.

Do you mean like Philip Marlowe and Slim Callaghan?
I can see the connexion with Slim Callaghan maybe but none with Marlowe.

[Robittybob1]

Do you mean like Philip Marlowe and Slim Callaghan?
I can see the connexion with Slim Callaghan maybe but none with Marlowe.

Were they ever employed by Metodo 3?
Did they ever get to share the loot in the Find Madeleine Fund?

[Innominate]

I agree it was Mr P. but I was concerned about the accuracy of YM's recollection in her statement made 5 weeks after the event - Mr P was wearing a striped T-Shirt not a dark polo shirt (polo shirts normally collared?) & I can't see a scar on his face.

This is something I haven't noticed before - who was this woman from upstairs?

"Err you know her timing was just completely off, err you know there was, I say there was someone else who visited on the night that she was abducted, I think she was from the upstairs and she was again you know trying to say there, there Kate, you're alright, and again it was just completely inappropriate timing.'


1485 "Yeah.'
  Reply "I didn't think there was anything sinister about it I just thought it was people who didn't really perhaps have an insight into you know what has gone on and what was good timing and what wasn't. I never really thought anything much more about either of them.'

Not sure, but it looks like Mrs Moyes from the top apartment.

[Robittybob1]

Not sure, but it looks like Mrs Moyes from the top apartment.

Well Moyes were up higher and did join in on the search but there were a lot of apartments in that block so why did you point it out being Mrs Moyes?

[Innominate]

Well Moyes were up higher and did join in on the search but there were a lot of apartments in that block so why did you point it out being Mrs Moyes?

Well as I said I'm not sure, but I'm basing my belief that it looks like it may have been Mrs Moyes from her statement on the radio show and the article in the Express:

SUSAN MOYES Sure. We went out for a meal about seven o’clock down in the town. We walked back about nine o’clock, round past, erm, the church, round past the supermarket, back to the apartment. Went out on the balcony about quarter past nine. Everywhere was peaceful, everywhere was lovely. We then went to bed. We were woken up at half past eleven at night by one of the friends of the McCanns to say a little girl had been abducted. Those were the words she used. So we got dressed and joined in the search. We were out till about four in the morning with, oooh, about I dont know, thirty people, thirty other people maybe. The Mark Warner team were out with other guests at the Ocean Club.

From the Express article:

The woman’s statement continues: “We walked back up towards our apartment, a group had gathered on the corner. The McCanns were in bits, he was crying on the shoulder of a friend. She was screaming: ‘The f*****g b........s have taken her’. Finally, at around 4am, we said: ‘Is it OK if we go to bed?’ We directed this comment towards a man in a white shirt and jeans, who seemed to be authoritative.”

[Innominate]

All the caveats about whether the 'missing couple' actually exist apply, but I'm just running with the possibility.

It is only a newspaper report from the Express and so there may be reliability issues, but a few quotes stood out:

(a) It is believed they entered the bedroom on May 2, 2007, the evening before Madeleine disappeared from the Ocean Club at Praia da Luz on Portugal’s Algarve.

(b) It is already known that Pamela Fenn, who lived directly above apartment 5a, heard a child, believed to be Madeleine, crying for about an hour on the evening of May 2.

Mrs Fenn stated:

She also refers to the day of the 1st May 2007, when she was at home alone, at approximately 22.30 she heard a child cry, and that due the tone of the crying seemed to be a young child and not a baby of two years of age or younger.

At about 23.45, an hour and fifteen minutes after the crying began, she heard the parents arrive, she did not see them, but she heard the patio doors open, she was quite worried as the crying had gone on for more than an hour and had gradually got worse.

===

There is a mismatch in dates, but this is quite possibly an error in the report/statements, so it is possible this all happened on the same night.

Mrs Fenn states 'she heard the parents arrive, she did not see them.'

It would not appear to be certain that the parents entered the apartment, as reported by Mrs Fenn, because she did not see them, it could have been the 'mystery couple'.

If the mystery couple do exist then I'm speculating that the people reporting seeing the mystery couple and the mystery couple are one and the same, and that the purpose of the entering the apartment was, as reported “Apparently they were concerned about the crying and went to see if they could comfort the girl.”

[Robittybob1]

All the caveats about whether the 'missing couple' actually exist apply, but I'm just running with the possibility.

.....

If the mystery couple do exist then I'm speculating that the people reporting seeing the mystery couple and the mystery couple are one and the same, and that the purpose of the entering the apartment was, as reported “Apparently they were concerned about the crying and went to see if they could comfort the girl.”

That would definitely be a possibility that would not cross everyone's mind.  Very clever thinking there.  For to see the mystery couple you had to be near there as well.

[sadie]

All the caveats about whether the 'missing couple' actually exist apply, but I'm just running with the possibility.

It is only a newspaper report from the Express and so there may be reliability issues, but a few quotes stood out:

(a) It is believed they entered the bedroom on May 2, 2007, the evening before Madeleine disappeared from the Ocean Club at Praia da Luz on Portugal’s Algarve.

(b) It is already known that Pamela Fenn, who lived directly above apartment 5a, heard a child, believed to be Madeleine, crying for about an hour on the evening of May 2.

Mrs Fenn stated:

She also refers to the day of the 1st May 2007, when she was at home alone, at approximately 22.30 she heard a child cry, and that due the tone of the crying seemed to be a young child and not a baby of two years of age or younger.

At about 23.45, an hour and fifteen minutes after the crying began, she heard the parents arrive, she did not see them, but she heard the patio doors open, she was quite worried as the crying had gone on for more than an hour and had gradually got worse.

===

There is a mismatch in dates, but this is quite possibly an error in the report/statements, so it is possible this all happened on the same night.

Mrs Fenn states 'she heard the parents arrive, she did not see them.'

It would not appear to be certain that the parents entered the apartment, as reported by Mrs Fenn, because she did not see them, it could have been the 'mystery couple'.

If the mystery couple do exist then I'm speculating that the people reporting seeing the mystery couple and the mystery couple are one and the same, and that the purpose of the entering the apartment was, as reported “Apparently they were concerned about the crying and went to see if they could comfort the girl.”

Mrs Fenn HEARD the patio doors open and ASSUMED that it was the parents coming home.  She did not see them.

The patio doors being opened could have been for an altogether different reason, such as going out for a drink on the balcony or a view of the ocean and fresh air

Or even to help cool the apartment from the heat build up during the day.  I am not aware that there was any air conditioning in any of the apartments.

To say that she heard the parents coming home is an assumption too far imo

[slartibartfast]

Mrs Fenn HEARD the patio doors open and ASSUMED that it was the parents coming home.  She did not see them.

The patio doors being opened could have been for an altogether different reason, such as going out for a drink on the balcony or a view of the ocean and fresh air

Or even to help cool the apartment from the heat build up during the day.  I am not aware that there was any air conditioning in any of the apartments.

To say that she heard the parents coming home is an assumption too far imo

As far as I remember they said they hey had been out late on the Tuesday?