Author Topic: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.  (Read 6231 times)

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Offline Myster

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Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #15 on: August 01, 2017, 06:35:17 PM »
https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/margaret-bains-death-not-instant

She saw "a large female lying on her back"

"She said when the pathologist moved the lights above Mrs Bain's bed, some moths and silverfish fell out on to the bed".  Oh yuk!  Right I've had enough now  8)><(

At least the pathologist visited soc unlike Dr Vanezis.

This'll cure your Obsessive Cleanliness Disorder... scroll down for the police video made several hours after they first arrived...

https://interactives.stuff.co.nz/blackhands/house-of-horrors/


Offline Myster

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Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #16 on: August 01, 2017, 06:42:25 PM »
If the following is true I would have thought there was a case for social services involved with the welfare of the children years before the murders:

https://interactives.stuff.co.nz/blackhands/the-devil-and-mrs-bain/

Lovely photo of them in happier times, but pity she went off the rails after that PNG missionary posting.

Offline Myster

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Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #17 on: August 01, 2017, 07:13:10 PM »
Post #129 seems to confirm the blood on the gloves originated from SB who I understand lost a lot of blood.  When I made ref to a blood stain analyst I was referring to an expert who may have been able to determine whether the gloves were actually worn when they became stained or whether they became "smeared" by being in the vicinity. 

If DB was keen to 'set the scene' why leave his heavily blood stained white opera gloves under SB's bed which ended up incriminating him?

I can't see there's any evidence to suggest the perp wore the gloves.  It may be the case the gloves were in SB's room and ended up smeared with blood and kicked under the bed.  How far under the bed were they?  In JB's case some docs refer to the casings as under the bed/wardrobe when the soc photos seem to depict them right on the edge.

The parents seem barking and it appears not only was the house untidy but was literally unhygienic.   

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/2478273/The-Bain-mystery

That photo of the single, stained but undamaged opera glove I deleted yesterday was genuine after all, I believe. It came from the STUFF website. The remaining one with two faded gloves was probably taken when samples had been cut out for analysis, and not damaged during the fight with Stephen?

DB might have hoped nobody would discover them underneath the bed, or forget about them because he had other things to cope with, such as washing the green jersey free of stains, setting the scene of his father's "suicide", and getting himself psyched up for that operatic emergency call... 20 minutes too late!

Computer screen with - "sorry, you are the only one who deserved to stay" and Stephen Bain's bloodstained bed...

Offline Holly Goodhead

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Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #18 on: August 02, 2017, 10:48:54 AM »
This'll cure your Obsessive Cleanliness Disorder... scroll down for the police video made several hours after they first arrived...

https://interactives.stuff.co.nz/blackhands/house-of-horrors/

I think the state of the house is indicative of something amiss with Mrs Bain's mental health.  At the time of the murders I don't believe she was working and the children were all largely independent so it's not as though she lacked time for a much needed spring clean and tidy up.  I appreciate we all have different norms but I don't think many people would find 65 Every St acceptable and 'normal'.  By comparison WHF looks like something from the Ideal Home Exhibition! 

Imo the truth of these cases, DB and JB, lie in the psychologies of the matriarchs and the family dynamics.  I think Mrs Bain sent her husband over the edge and June sent SC the same way.  In both cases we hear a lot about the psychological/psychiatric assessment of the main protagonists: DB, RB, JB and SC but nothing or little about the matriarchs and their mental states and effect on family members.

Perhaps these cases need reviewing by family therapists.   

 
Justice 4 Sheila and Jeremy: victims of poorly arranged 'Baby Scoop Era' adoptions.  Australia has apologised
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hVbokTpYeg time for UK to do the same https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/nov/04/baby-adoption-practices-of-past-demand-inquiry-say-law-firms

Offline Holly Goodhead

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Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #19 on: August 02, 2017, 11:57:37 AM »
That photo of the single, stained but undamaged opera glove I deleted yesterday was genuine after all, I believe. It came from the STUFF website. The remaining one with two faded gloves was probably taken when samples had been cut out for analysis, and not damaged during the fight with Stephen?

DB might have hoped nobody would discover them underneath the bed, or forget about them because he had other things to cope with, such as washing the green jersey free of stains, setting the scene of his father's "suicide", and getting himself psyched up for that operatic emergency call... 20 minutes too late!

Computer screen with - "sorry, you are the only one who deserved to stay" and Stephen Bain's bloodstained bed...

There seems to be an assumption the perp wore the gloves but surely it is possible the gloves became smeared in blood from simply being in the vicinity given the volume of blood found in SB's room?  What about the other sides?  Are there any diagrams showing exactly where they were found?  Were they definitely under the bed as opposed to under the duvet?  Things often get lost in translation eg SC and June on the side of the bed which some interpret as actually on the bed as opposed to the side of the bed on the floor.  Is it possible SB was wearing the gloves when he was shot?   

You have seen my email communication from a forensic scientist about fingerprints on firearms where I was advised they are difficult to recover from firearms due to the coating known as bluing.  Yet in both cases, DB and JB, I see attempts to try and explain the lack of fingerprints and the introduction of gloves.  In DB's case the opera gloves and in JB's case unknown gloves which JM claims JB told her a glove may have fallen off in the fight between NB and MM. 

AP claims he handled the rifle a week or so before the murders.  It's almost certain NB, as owner, handled the rifle in the weeks leading up to the murders.  The relatives handled the silencer.  None of their fingerprints were found.  Why?  Because fingerprints are difficult to recover from firearms including silencers coated with bluing. 

What would be the motive for DB to murder his family.  He was assessed by a psychologist/psychiatrist shortly after the murders and found to be 'normal' and free from any personality disorder/mental illness.  It is said RB was depressed; his wife wanted him out of her life; at the time of the murders he was banished to live in the garden/campervan; the school he was principal at received a poor review by inspectors; his daughter, LB, was about to go public and claim an incestuous relationship. 

Justice 4 Sheila and Jeremy: victims of poorly arranged 'Baby Scoop Era' adoptions.  Australia has apologised
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hVbokTpYeg time for UK to do the same https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/nov/04/baby-adoption-practices-of-past-demand-inquiry-say-law-firms

Offline Holly Goodhead

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Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #20 on: August 02, 2017, 01:42:54 PM »
https://uk.video.search.yahoo.com/search/video;_ylt=A9mSs23mxYFZlnwAyKtLBQx.;_ylu=X3oDMTEybjljdmk0BGNvbG8DaXIyBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDQjMxMzZfMQRzZWMDc2M-?p=david+bains+gloves+youtube&fr=moz35#id=1&vid=788819cfcd7d7ef74a13241da42cb988&action=view

It seems only one glove was found under the bed and this was around the edge ie half under, half exposed.  It also seems one side was bloody and the other not.  I'm inclined to think the gloves are red herrings and were simply hanging about and became bloody as SB fought for his life.  The bedroom is full of junk and blood was found all over the place.
Justice 4 Sheila and Jeremy: victims of poorly arranged 'Baby Scoop Era' adoptions.  Australia has apologised
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hVbokTpYeg time for UK to do the same https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/nov/04/baby-adoption-practices-of-past-demand-inquiry-say-law-firms

Offline Myster

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Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #21 on: August 02, 2017, 05:35:31 PM »
https://uk.video.search.yahoo.com/search/video;_ylt=A9mSs23mxYFZlnwAyKtLBQx.;_ylu=X3oDMTEybjljdmk0BGNvbG8DaXIyBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDQjMxMzZfMQRzZWMDc2M-?p=david+bains+gloves+youtube&fr=moz35#id=1&vid=788819cfcd7d7ef74a13241da42cb988&action=view

It seems only one glove was found under the bed and this was around the edge ie half under, half exposed.  It also seems one side was bloody and the other not.  I'm inclined to think the gloves are red herrings and were simply hanging about and became bloody as SB fought for his life.  The bedroom is full of junk and blood was found all over the place.
The glove(s) had been worn.  There is no blood on the floor surrounding the one in the video, meaning that it couldn't have got on from being dripped off Stephen's wounds if it had merely rested there.  Both gloves were bloody, hence both worn... see photo above.

Offline Myster

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Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #22 on: August 02, 2017, 06:34:09 PM »
What would be the motive for DB to murder his family. He was assessed by a psychologist/psychiatrist shortly after the murders and found to be 'normal' and free from any personality disorder/mental illness.  It is said RB was depressed; his wife wanted him out of her life; at the time of the murders he was banished to live in the garden/campervan; the school he was principal at received a poor review by inspectors; his daughter, LB, was about to go public and claim an incestuous relationship.

David Bain had little money, no regular income apart from his paper round, and was irritated by the lack of any progress being made in the construction of a new home which his mother had drawn up and submitted plans for.  Allegedly, Robin Bain wasn't as enthusiastic about the project, and his eldest son increasingly flexed his muscle in the Bain household to dominate his younger siblings. What easier way out than to get rid of them all in order to improve his dire situation with the money set aside by his parents for the rebuild.

Why would Robin leave that cryptic computer message praising David over all the others, when in fact Stephen and Arawa were getting on just fine with their father and their own lives at school and college?  It only makes sense if David typed it on the computer, rather than writing it out longhand to avoid any suspicion that the message was his.

After finishing his paper round, what does David do?  Washes his "black hands", switches on the washing machine, then goes back upstairs into his bedroom, notices his wardrobe door open with numerous bullets, an empty ammo box and his rifle trigger lock with key scattered on the floor... but no rifle.  He must have gone searching for it and discovered his family's bodies, but then stalls for 20 minutes before calling for help!  What would any sensible son who cared about his family do on discovering such carnage?  That's right... call emergency services asap, or go find the nearest passer-by or neighbour to raise the alarm. The long delay makes no sense!

When interviewed by police, he claimed that he hadn't seen Stephen's, Laniet's or Arawa's bodies, only those of his mum and dad, yet in the 111 call he repeated FIVE times that ALL his family were dead...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7HsjKDSaKA

In court, he contradicted himself again by stating that he heard Laniet gurgling when he went into her room, but in 2012 told Justice Binnie he had no recall of any gurgling!!!

http://davidbain.counterspin.co.nz/evidence/david-stated-that-he-heard-laniet-gurgling

Those were only three slip-ups, but there are just too many other contradictions for me to believe anything other than David Bain was responsible.

Offline Holly Goodhead

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Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #23 on: August 02, 2017, 07:53:19 PM »
David Bain had little money, no regular income apart from his paper round, and was irritated by the lack of any progress being made in the construction of a new home which his mother had drawn up and submitted plans for.  Allegedly, Robin Bain wasn't as enthusiastic about the project, and his eldest son increasingly flexed his muscle in the Bain household to dominate his younger siblings. What easier way out than to get rid of them all in order to improve his dire situation with the money set aside by his parents for the rebuild.

Why would Robin leave that cryptic computer message praising David over all the others, when in fact Stephen and Arawa were getting on just fine with their father and their own lives at school and college?  It only makes sense if David typed it on the computer, rather than writing it out longhand to avoid any suspicion that the message was his.

After finishing his paper round, what does David do?  Washes his "black hands", switches on the washing machine, then goes back upstairs into his bedroom, notices his wardrobe door open with numerous bullets, an empty ammo box and his rifle trigger lock with key scattered on the floor... but no rifle.  He must have gone searching for it and discovered his family's bodies, but then stalls for 20 minutes before calling for help!  What would any sensible son who cared about his family do on discovering such carnage?  That's right... call emergency services asap, or go find the nearest passer-by or neighbour to raise the alarm. The long delay makes no sense!

When interviewed by police, he claimed that he hadn't seen Stephen's, Laniet's or Arawa's bodies, only those of his mum and dad, yet in the 111 call he repeated FIVE times that ALL his family were dead...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7HsjKDSaKA

In court, he contradicted himself again by stating that he heard Laniet gurgling when he went into her room, but in 2012 told Justice Binnie he had no recall of any gurgling!!!

http://davidbain.counterspin.co.nz/evidence/david-stated-that-he-heard-laniet-gurgling

Those were only three slip-ups, but there are just too many other contradictions for me to believe anything other than David Bain was responsible.

DB was a student.  Millions of 20 something students all over the globe with little or no money and 99.99% don't turn to mass murder. 

I don't think RB was part of MB's future and/or expected to reside in the new property.  MB was looking to buy RB out/pay him off. 

It seems DB got on well with his siblings.  There's some evidence that RB was also sexually abusing Arawa in addition to Laniet.  He may well have been a paedophile and certainly his background of school teacher, scout/youth leader and missionary would provide the ideal cover.  Maybe this was the source of his depression.

https://uk.video.search.yahoo.com/search/video;_ylt=A9mSs2PmFoJZZVMAc1VLBQx.;_ylu=X3oDMTEybjljdmk0BGNvbG8DaXIyBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDQjMxMzZfMQRzZWMDc2M-?p=youtube+arawa+bain+abused+by+father&fr=moz35#id=1&vid=38a04de8c92f252fc267eeffb5837511&action=view

http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/2432987/Laniet-Bain-hard-to-abstain-from-sex

I think research shows that young women sexually abused by fathers often end up prostituting themselves. 

Thankfully so few of us will ever face being the sole survivor of family annihilation that I think it is impossible to generalise about behaviour, reactions etc.



Justice 4 Sheila and Jeremy: victims of poorly arranged 'Baby Scoop Era' adoptions.  Australia has apologised
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hVbokTpYeg time for UK to do the same https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/nov/04/baby-adoption-practices-of-past-demand-inquiry-say-law-firms

Offline Holly Goodhead

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Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #24 on: August 02, 2017, 08:12:18 PM »
Maybe MB, consciously or sub-consciously, suspected RB of sexually abusing their daughters hence her constant reference to the "devil". 
Justice 4 Sheila and Jeremy: victims of poorly arranged 'Baby Scoop Era' adoptions.  Australia has apologised
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hVbokTpYeg time for UK to do the same https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/nov/04/baby-adoption-practices-of-past-demand-inquiry-say-law-firms

Offline Myster

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Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #25 on: August 02, 2017, 08:16:30 PM »
DB was a student.  Millions of 20 something students all over the globe with little or no money and 99.99% don't turn to mass murder. 

I don't think RB was part of MB's future and/or expected to reside in the new property.  MB was looking to buy RB out/pay him off. 

It seems DB got on well with his siblings.  There's some evidence that RB was also sexually abusing Arawa in addition to Laniet.  He may well have been a paedophile and certainly his background of school teacher, scout/youth leader and missionary would provide the ideal cover.  Maybe this was the source of his depression.

https://uk.video.search.yahoo.com/search/video;_ylt=A9mSs2PmFoJZZVMAc1VLBQx.;_ylu=X3oDMTEybjljdmk0BGNvbG8DaXIyBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDQjMxMzZfMQRzZWMDc2M-?p=youtube+arawa+bain+abused+by+father&fr=moz35#id=1&vid=38a04de8c92f252fc267eeffb5837511&action=view

http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/2432987/Laniet-Bain-hard-to-abstain-from-sex

I think research shows that young women sexually abused by fathers often end up prostituting themselves. 

Thankfully so few of us will ever face being the sole survivor of family annihilation that I think it is impossible to generalise about behaviour, reactions etc.

Laniet was a fantasist who claimed she had a "black baby" after being raped in PNG, when nothing could be further from the truth!

You don't think that breathy, operatic aria Bain sang over the phone was a genuine distress call, Holly... surely?

Offline Holly Goodhead

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Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #26 on: August 02, 2017, 08:22:34 PM »
Laniet was a fantasist who claimed she had a "black baby" after being raped in PNG, when nothing could be further from the truth!

You don't think that breathy, operatic aria Bain sang over the phone was a genuine distress call, Holly... surely?

So you don't think RB sexually abused one or both daughters? 

How would you expect someone to sound assuming they were the victim of family annihilation as opposed to mass murderer?
« Last Edit: August 02, 2017, 08:47:58 PM by Holly Goodhead »
Justice 4 Sheila and Jeremy: victims of poorly arranged 'Baby Scoop Era' adoptions.  Australia has apologised
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hVbokTpYeg time for UK to do the same https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/nov/04/baby-adoption-practices-of-past-demand-inquiry-say-law-firms

Offline Myster

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Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #27 on: August 02, 2017, 08:57:13 PM »
So you don't think RB sexually abused one or both daughters? 

How would you expect someone to sound in the circumstances?

No... well at least not in his rusty old Commer van!

There's just too much exaggerated shortness of breath followed by a normal period when he gives out the address and his name clearly, then reverts back to fake distress at the end, and this call made some 20 minutes after discovering the carnage, whereas I would have expected him to be genuinely flustered and breathless if he'd phoned immediately.

And how did he know they were all dead if he only saw the bodies of his parents?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIhQJCJCZtk

Offline Holly Goodhead

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Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #28 on: August 02, 2017, 09:21:52 PM »
No... well at least not in his rusty old Commer van!

Well he had a new Commer door! 

There's just too much exaggerated shortness of breath followed by a normal period when he gives out the address and his name clearly, then reverts back to fake distress at the end, and this call made some 20 minutes after discovering the carnage, whereas I would have expected him to be genuinely flustered and breathless if he'd phoned immediately.

And how did he know they were all dead if he only saw the bodies of his parents?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIhQJCJCZtk

https://justice.govt.nz/assets/Documents/Publications/2012-David-Bain-amended-report.pdf

The likely chronology is as follows:

5.45 am David leaves to do his paper route.  Robin subsequently enters the house. 

6.43 am The computer “turn-on” time as established by the prosecution’s expert.

6:45 am David is seen “squeezing” between the gate and the hedge at Every Street by a witness called by the prosecution, Mrs Denise Laney, whose timing was verified by the Police. 

6:45 to approximately 7:05 am David Bain does various tasks in the house, discovers his gun missing from his wardrobe, goes from room to room upstairs and downstairs in search of his mother and siblings, finally opens
the door to the lounge and finds his father’s body.

7.10 am David Bain, said to be traumatized by shock, calls emergency services. 

« Last Edit: August 02, 2017, 09:28:46 PM by Holly Goodhead »
Justice 4 Sheila and Jeremy: victims of poorly arranged 'Baby Scoop Era' adoptions.  Australia has apologised
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hVbokTpYeg time for UK to do the same https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/nov/04/baby-adoption-practices-of-past-demand-inquiry-say-law-firms

Offline Myster

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Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #29 on: August 02, 2017, 09:35:56 PM »
Well he had a new Commer door! 

... and a newish Commodore computer, but rest of the van needed plenty Kurust...

https://youtu.be/VRwUqReEheE?t=4m15s