Author Topic: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.  (Read 6229 times)

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Offline Holly Goodhead

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Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #30 on: August 03, 2017, 12:04:41 PM »
Familicide, with or without suicide, is rare so I think it's difficult to make judgements about actions and behaviour and what would be considered 'normal'.   

Some don't believe NB would call JB and that JB's subsequent 'dithering' is indicative of guilt.  Similar situation with DB where some find the emergency call and computer message lack authenticity.   In both cases the families were grossly dysfunctional. 

Had the Bains and Bambers been low socio economic families they may well have come to the attention of the authorities before disaster struck. 
Justice 4 Sheila and Jeremy: victims of poorly arranged 'Baby Scoop Era' adoptions.  Australia has apologised
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hVbokTpYeg time for UK to do the same https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/nov/04/baby-adoption-practices-of-past-demand-inquiry-say-law-firms

Offline Myster

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Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #31 on: August 03, 2017, 12:57:56 PM »
Bain wasn't just dithering, he waited far, far too long to make that emergency call when there might have been a remote possibility of saving Laniet's life, after he claimed to hear her gurgling.

What was he doing in those 20 minutes? - cleaning himself up, putting his bloodstained green jersey on a full hours hot wash, when as chief laundryman he would know that wool shrinks irreversably when treated as such, balancing the magazine case like a domino soldier on its edge close to his dad's right hand, and finally typing that cryptic computer message?

The latest question and answer session with Martin van Beynen...

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/95394625/live-martin-van-beynen-on-black-hands

Offline Myster

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Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #32 on: August 03, 2017, 06:04:56 PM »
Familicide, with or without suicide, is rare so I think it's difficult to make judgements about actions and behaviour and what would be considered 'normal'.   

Some don't believe NB would call JB and that JB's subsequent 'dithering' is indicative of guilt.  Similar situation with DB where some find the emergency call and computer message lack authenticity.   In both cases the families were grossly dysfunctional. 

Had the Bains and Bambers been low socio economic families they may well have come to the attention of the authorities before disaster struck.

For balance, Justice Binnie's report re. David Bain's compensation claim in 2012...

Offline Holly Goodhead

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Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #33 on: August 03, 2017, 06:49:54 PM »
Bain wasn't just dithering, he waited far, far too long to make that emergency call when there might have been a remote possibility of saving Laniet's life, after he claimed to hear her gurgling.

What was he doing in those 20 minutes? - cleaning himself up, putting his bloodstained green jersey on a full hours hot wash, when as chief laundryman he would know that wool shrinks irreversably when treated as such, balancing the magazine case like a domino soldier on its edge close to his dad's right hand, and finally typing that cryptic computer message?

The latest question and answer session with Martin van Beynen...

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/95394625/live-martin-van-beynen-on-black-hands

Well he was hardly going to go straight in and discover the victims.  Now that would look suspicious!  He had no reason to deviate from his normal routine and it was only when he discovered his rifle missing and ammo on the floor of his bedroom that he investigated further.  Upon discovering his parents he made the emergency call.   

"The Curious Placement of the empty 10 shot magazine" is dealt with on page 87 of the following:

https://justice.govt.nz/assets/Documents/Publications/2012-David-Bain-amended-report.pdf

I will have to get back to you on the other points.  An hour to go until the Lionesses take on Netherlands in the semis.  So excited I can hardly think straight!   8(*( *&*%£
Justice 4 Sheila and Jeremy: victims of poorly arranged 'Baby Scoop Era' adoptions.  Australia has apologised
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hVbokTpYeg time for UK to do the same https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/nov/04/baby-adoption-practices-of-past-demand-inquiry-say-law-firms

Offline Myster

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Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #34 on: August 03, 2017, 08:06:34 PM »
Well he was hardly going to go straight in and discover the victims.  Now that would look suspicious!  He had no reason to deviate from his normal routine and it was only when he discovered his rifle missing and ammo on the floor of his bedroom that he investigated further.  Upon discovering his parents he made the emergency call.   

"The Curious Placement of the empty 10 shot magazine" is dealt with on page 87 of the following:

https://justice.govt.nz/assets/Documents/Publications/2012-David-Bain-amended-report.pdf

I will have to get back to you on the other points.  An hour to go until the Lionesses take on Netherlands in the semis.  So excited I can hardly think straight!   8(*( *&*%£

And what did he say? -

DB - "They're ALL dead!"

Recipient - "Who are?"

DB - "My family... they're ALL dead!"

Three more times!

But when interviewed he claimed to have seen only the bodies of his parents, even when asked twice.

Offline Holly Goodhead

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Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #35 on: August 04, 2017, 11:57:55 AM »
And what did he say? -

DB - "They're ALL dead!"

Recipient - "Who are?"

DB - "My family... they're ALL dead!"

Three more times!

But when interviewed he claimed to have seen only the bodies of his parents, even when asked twice.

All the points you raise have been countered by Ian Binnie QC in the following document:

https://justice.govt.nz/assets/Documents/Publications/2012-David-Bain-amended-report.pdf

Placement of magazine:

451.
The evidence at the 2009 retrial does not improve our knowledge of this issue.  I accept
the view of the Crown Law Office that it is likely the empty magazine was placed not dropped. 
However, as the Privy Council noted, the question remains of who placed it.  Its position was as
consistent with suicide as with murder.  The curious placement is therefore neither exculpatory
nor inculpatory of David or Robin, in my opinion.

Bodies witnessed prior to emergency tel call

As far as I can see he observed all victims in-situ prior to making the tel call?

Noises from Laniet

It is a well known fact that the recently deceased can make various sounds as they go through the various biological stages of death.  DB said he could see there was nothing he could do.

Blood stained clothes

I don't believe the green jumper belonged to DB?  It was said to be too small.  He apparently had small stains on his shorts and tshirt which he said came from innocent transfer around door frames and when he touched SB's body.

The more I read the more I am convinced DB is innocent.  I think the father was sexually abusing one or both daughters hence Mrs Bain referring to her husband as a son of Belial - one of the Four Crown Princes of Hell.

31. The Bain family was somewhat dysfunctional.  The house was a shambles.  Margaret’s
interest was in new-age spiritualism.  Keeping the house clean was not a family priority.  One of
the Police officers described the place as “unkempt and a pigsty”.  Robin’s marriage to
Margaret had effectively broken down.  She had called him a son of Belial – one of the Four
Crown Princes of Hell.  He did not sleep in the house with his wife and children.  When staying
at 65 Every Street, he was banished to sleep outside the house in a caravan.


Probably also explains why MB wouldn't allow her husband to spend the night inside the property.  Assuming she hadn't recently been told by one of her daughters what was going on she probably knew or suspected consciously or sub-consciously.

Many similarities with JB's case especially with regard to all the circumstantial evidence and how these cases just seem to take on a life of their own!  Frightening.

Anyway DB has now taken on his wife's name and moved to Australia with their child. 
Justice 4 Sheila and Jeremy: victims of poorly arranged 'Baby Scoop Era' adoptions.  Australia has apologised
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hVbokTpYeg time for UK to do the same https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/nov/04/baby-adoption-practices-of-past-demand-inquiry-say-law-firms

Offline Myster

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Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #36 on: August 04, 2017, 08:18:47 PM »
The NZ government thought the Binnie Report too lenient on David Bain, so they commissioned a counterblast from Robert Fisher QC, which refuted many of Binnie's conclusions...

https://www.justice.govt.nz/assets/Documents/Publications/David-Bain-report-of-Hon-Robert-Fisher-QC.pdf

http://www.newshub.co.nz/politics/justice-binnies-report-markedly-generous-to-bain-2012121314

Listen to how David Bain sidesteps questions about Laniet's gurgling, and Stephen's blood being found on the crotch of his shorts. Those are just two examples...

https://interactives.stuff.co.nz/blackhands/the-binnie-tapes/

Deliberately obscuring and conveniently forgetting details which should have been imprinted on his mind after such a life-changing event.

Methinks Bain was and still is using the same ploy as Bamber. Sorry, Holly... his tale is unbelievable.

Offline Myster

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Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #37 on: August 04, 2017, 08:39:27 PM »
Blood stained clothes

I don't believe the green jumper belonged to DB?  It was said to be too small.

Looks big enough to fit DB to me, even after a superwash, and he was slim at the time...

Offline Samson

Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #38 on: August 05, 2017, 07:01:00 AM »
Just catching up  8(0(*

 From Cynric Temple-Camp in his new book, in a rare moment where he gets it right.

All I can say is that people can and do have odd ideas, and pathologists are certainly not immune. As G.G. Kelly put it, talking about ballistic evidence in murder cases: ‘I soon learned the gun spoke eloquently, sincerely and truthfully; I have found that people sometimes fall a little short in this regard.

Meanwhile, fresh today is this Ian Binnie interview with the rugged Kim Hill.

Profound, lucid, lethal to NZ government.

http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/saturday/audio/201853679/justice-ian-binnie-compensating-david-bain

Watch carefully the adjustments to society that flow.
You Bamber people should LISTEN UP!!!

Offline Samson

Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #39 on: August 05, 2017, 10:15:52 AM »
Bain wasn't just dithering, he waited far, far too long to make that emergency call when there might have been a remote possibility of saving Laniet's life, after he claimed to hear her gurgling.

What was he doing in those 20 minutes? - cleaning himself up, putting his bloodstained green jersey on a full hours hot wash, when as chief laundryman he would know that wool shrinks irreversably when treated as such, balancing the magazine case like a domino soldier on its edge close to his dad's right hand, and finally typing that cryptic computer message?

The latest question and answer session with Martin van Beynen...

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/95394625/live-martin-van-beynen-on-black-hands
Oh yes, you totally need the David Bain experience to bolster Bamber.
Unfortunately it is shot to smithereens in the interview with Binnie above.
Unless cognitive dissonance is your untreated condition.

Offline Myster

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Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #40 on: August 05, 2017, 10:59:09 AM »
Oh yes, you totally need the David Bain experience to bolster Bamber.
Unfortunately it is shot to smithereens in the interview with Binnie above.
Unless cognitive dissonance is your untreated condition.

LOL!!!... I bet the NZ government are quaking in their boots after that woeful chat.

It will change no-one's view. Ian Binnie's entitled to his opinion as others are, but he's wrong imo, and just so accepting of Bain's evasive answers.

Offline Samson

Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #41 on: August 05, 2017, 12:27:03 PM »
LOL!!!... I bet the NZ government are quaking in their boots after that woeful chat.

It will change no-one's view. Ian Binnie's entitled to his opinion as others are, but he's wrong imo, and just so accepting of Bain's evasive answers.
You listened if at all with a non open mind.
Binnie is masterful and detailed, we are doing a full transcription to annihilate the garbage in the kitchen cabinet waste bin.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2017, 07:44:00 PM by John »

Offline APRIL

Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #42 on: August 05, 2017, 04:04:41 PM »
You listened if at all with a non open mind.
Binnie is masterful and detailed, we are doing a full transcription to annihilate the garbage in the kitchen cabinet waste bin.

No idea who is Binnie but MASTERFUL? Sounds like you've got the hots for him @)(++(*
« Last Edit: August 06, 2017, 07:44:20 PM by John »

Offline Samson

Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #43 on: August 05, 2017, 10:42:25 PM »
No idea who is Binnie but MASTERFUL? Sounds like you've got the hots for him @)(++(*
A view from a Canadian lawyer Lashl, she was an ISF moderator.

Until now, I had never heard of this case so I don't know anything about it or have any pre-conceived notions about it, but I am finding this (pdf file) an interesting read so far. Ian Binnie, who is a retired Justice of the Supreme Court of Canada, is certainly no slouch, so I am interested in reading his take on the matter.

and

I have some concern that starting at ~about page 157, suddenly there is the introduction of qualifiers such as "Comment" or "Comments" in advance of various bits and pieces in the midst of Binnie's report. These do not appear to be Binnie's words, and it looks like someone else has interjected them. It is not clear to me whether this is the case or whose "comments" may have been interjected.

and

Well, that's reasonably compelling on that particular point, indeed (and I watched the whole 38 minutes of it.)

link: Not found but it showed that the marks on Robin's thumb indeed were replicated by loading billets to the 22 cartridge.
Charlie Wilkes obligingly stated

In the video I watched, investigators exactly replicated the marks shown in the crime scene photo. The marks are distinctive and unusual. You offer no reason to accept your claim that they were "clearly older marks with ingrained dirt."

and

It happens I own a .22 semi-auto, with a slightly different magazine cartridge, but it loads the same way, and I see the point exactly. I have had those marks on my own thumb and index finger.

They didn't "try very hard." They merely demonstrated what happened when they reloaded the magazine after shooting the gun.

..................................................

Of course no one here should be distracted by two North American specialists in their fields with no axe to grind in the Bain case.  8(>((
We are preparing a full annotated transcription of Binnie's very important interview. It shows the disgraceful oozing mendacity of the National government cabinet.

Offline Myster

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Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #44 on: August 06, 2017, 07:25:48 AM »
Ah yes, the Holy Grail that was supposed to exonerate David Bain... except that the "residue" lines on Robin's thumb aren't parallel, unlike the metal edges on the magazine; they differ in width (check it out with a ruler or piece of paper on your screen); and as numerous bullets had been loaded, there should have been more than just one pair of marks (or two pairs, if you want to stretch it by including other marks on his forefinger).

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/8851997/Media-drawn-into-Bain-blame-game
« Last Edit: August 06, 2017, 07:44:14 AM by Myster »