Author Topic: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.  (Read 20633 times)

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Offline Angelo222

Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #180 on: August 22, 2017, 03:08:23 PM »
The bump to his head was apparently caused when he passed out from the shock and hit some furniture.

And the other injuries not to mention the fake fits?  Bain and Bamber certainly have much in common when it comes to acting.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2017, 03:10:54 PM by Angelo222 »
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Online Holly Goodhead

Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #181 on: August 22, 2017, 03:49:16 PM »
And the other injuries not to mention the fake fits?  Bain and Bamber certainly have much in common when it comes to acting.

You can read all about DB's 'injuries' here from page 117 including the police officer's ws where he put DB in the recovery position.

https://www.justice.govt.nz/assets/Documents/Publications/2012-David-Bain-amended-report.pdf

How do people generally react when they discover terrible news eg loss of loved ones? 

From the DM re MM:

"She said: '[Kate] was pacing up and down. The worst possible thing had just happened to her.

'She was crying, but almost in a catatonic state, and Gerry was very distressed."


People respond in different ways.

JB's reaction at WHF was observed by a police surgeon of long experience who identified shock. 
 
Were the princes acting when they had to walk behind their mother's coffin?  Yes imo and it took its toll on Prince Harry's mental health.

https://uk.video.search.yahoo.com/search/video?fr=moz35&p=princes+walking+behind+dianas+coffin#id=3&vid=0a3f20199c37f1403cdfa39e2e3028e9&action=click
Dear God

Please curtail Covid-19 to enable me to have my eyebrows and lashes tinted.  Thank you.  PS please look after Jimmy's farm.

Online Holly Goodhead

Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #182 on: August 22, 2017, 05:58:58 PM »
At David Bain's second trial in 2009, his aunt, Jan Clark, went into some detail of conversations she had with him when he stayed at their home immediately following the murders. 

Well worth listening to for anyone who hasn't already trawled through the podcast.

Podcast 4. "The b@stard killed his family" from 00.06.00

On the Tuesday evening David read an article about the murders in the local newspaper and appeared distressed, his uncle took him up to the Clark's bedroom for some privacy. A short while later Jan Clark followed him up and found him sitting on the bed with his head in his hands.  She recalls saying to him that that was why they didn't want him to read the paper to which David Bain replied, "They lied to me...they weren't asleep...they knew they were going to die...he had to look them in the eye and shoot them".

Interestingly, the newspaper article did not contain any details as to how his three siblings died.

http://stuff.libsyn.com

I've just listened to the above but can't find where it states the newspaper article didn't contain any details as to how his siblings died.  All I heard was that the police suggested to the relatives to keep DB away from the papers.  Whether the reason for this was that they suspected him and didn't want him knowing about aspects of the investigation or they thought he would find it upsetting I don't know.  When David became upset and said as you've quoted above his aunt apparently said to DB this is the reason we didn't want you reading the papers.  Apparently DB could not be persuaded against reading the papers. 

I think JB did similar.  If they're innocent maybe they were just trying to figure out what happened.  Nowadays the police would provide a family liaison officer to keep family members briefed on events.    Not sure this happened back in 1985 UK and 1994 NZ.
Dear God

Please curtail Covid-19 to enable me to have my eyebrows and lashes tinted.  Thank you.  PS please look after Jimmy's farm.

Offline Samson

Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #183 on: August 22, 2017, 06:17:55 PM »
Samson Justice Binnie concluded on page 144 of his report:

"471.  In response to the Ministerís Mandate letter I conclude that it is more likely than not
that David Bain is factually innocent".
   

I agree with the above statement but I also agree with John in that if you're looking for absolutes none exist.

The problem as I see it is that the public in general want absolute proof of innocence or guilt when often it doesn't exist and in any event our judicial systems don't require such.  The system is advesarial and based on 'not guilty' or 'guilty beyond reasonable doubt'.
But this is one of the manifestations of a broken system. In the Bain case it is factually impossible to get a case against DB over the line, despite the nonsense driven by MVB. Ian Binnie must privately consider DB out of the guilt frame completely. Legal caution rather than scientific frames his words. I always return to the aviation analogy, which allows no expectation that the plane might not land safely. You would not fly if there was a 95% chance of landing I promise you.

Offline Myster

Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #184 on: August 22, 2017, 06:22:28 PM »
I've just listened to the above but can't find where it states the newspaper article didn't contain any details as to how his siblings died.  All I heard was that the police suggested to the relatives to keep DB away from the papers.  Whether the reason for this was that they suspected him and didn't want him knowing about aspects of the investigation or they thought he would find it upsetting I don't know.  When David became upset and said as you've quoted above his aunt apparently said to DB this is the reason we didn't want you reading the papers.  Apparently DB could not be persuaded against reading the papers. 

I think JB did similar.  If they're innocent maybe they were just trying to figure out what happened.  Nowadays the police would provide a family liaison officer to keep family members briefed on events.    Not sure this happened back in 1985 UK and 1994 NZ.

The bedroom scene between 10:30 and 14:30, same episode 4... http://stuff.libsyn.com/
« Last Edit: August 22, 2017, 06:25:22 PM by Myster »

Offline Samson

Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #185 on: August 22, 2017, 07:59:15 PM »
The bedroom scene between 10:30 and 14:30, same episode 4... http://stuff.libsyn.com/
She describes the thoughts of a man concerning the run of the mill slaughter of his family that he discovered alone. He mentions Schindler's list. He is an artist who has complex thoughts, surprise. What a lot of nonsense and time wasting we have endured for 23 years.

Online Holly Goodhead

Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #186 on: August 23, 2017, 08:44:52 AM »
The bump to his head was apparently caused when he passed out from the shock and hit some furniture.

Just reading the Daily Mail re the princes being told their mother had died:

William:

"I remember just feeling completely numb.  Disorientated, dizzy...And you keep asking yourself, Why me?" all the time.

I wonder how William might have felt had say a terrorist broken into Sandringham at the family Christmas gathering and he was the only survivor out of his immediate family? 
« Last Edit: August 23, 2017, 08:47:13 AM by Holly Goodhead »
Dear God

Please curtail Covid-19 to enable me to have my eyebrows and lashes tinted.  Thank you.  PS please look after Jimmy's farm.

Online Holly Goodhead

Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #187 on: August 23, 2017, 08:53:39 AM »
"Other startling revelations include:

How the Queen removed newspapers from Balmoral Castle so her grandsons would not be upset;"
Dear God

Please curtail Covid-19 to enable me to have my eyebrows and lashes tinted.  Thank you.  PS please look after Jimmy's farm.

Online Holly Goodhead

Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #188 on: August 23, 2017, 09:00:41 AM »
She describes the thoughts of a man concerning the run of the mill slaughter of his family that he discovered alone. He mentions Schindler's list. He is an artist who has complex thoughts, surprise. What a lot of nonsense and time wasting we have endured for 23 years.

Perhaps Schindler's list was thoughts about someone determining who survived and who didn't!  Survivors guilt:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivor_guilt

Dear God

Please curtail Covid-19 to enable me to have my eyebrows and lashes tinted.  Thank you.  PS please look after Jimmy's farm.

Online Holly Goodhead

Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #189 on: August 23, 2017, 11:47:39 AM »
The bedroom scene between 10:30 and 14:30, same episode 4... http://stuff.libsyn.com/

But I still don't understand how DB incriminated himself during the conversation with his aunt?  He observed his parents and therefore the papers making reference to some out of their beds he arrived at the logical conclusion his siblings must have been out of their beds and faced the perp. 
« Last Edit: August 23, 2017, 11:55:21 AM by Holly Goodhead »
Dear God

Please curtail Covid-19 to enable me to have my eyebrows and lashes tinted.  Thank you.  PS please look after Jimmy's farm.

Offline Myster

Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #190 on: August 23, 2017, 05:56:54 PM »
But I still don't understand how DB incriminated himself during the conversation with his aunt?  He observed his parents and therefore the papers making reference to some out of their beds he arrived at the logical conclusion his siblings must have been out of their beds and faced the perp.
His aunt claimed he said - "They lied to me (about what?), they weren't asleep, they knew they were going to die... he (I) had to look them in the eye and shoot them"

In other words... he knew that two family members, Stephen and Arawa, were either up or just getting out of bed when he entered their rooms, and aware they were about to be shot.

Online Holly Goodhead

Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #191 on: August 23, 2017, 06:44:53 PM »
His aunt claimed he said - "They lied to me (about what?), they weren't asleep, they knew they were going to die... he (I) had to look them in the eye and shoot them"

In other words... he knew that two family members, Stephen and Arawa, were either up or just getting out of bed when he entered their rooms, and aware they were about to be shot.

I think I read somewhere he was told by the police they were shot whilst asleep/in bed and therefore unaware of what was about to befall them? 

However I will admit there are inconsistencies:

1 "They're all dead" but also said only observed parents, I think?
2 Checked SB for life hence transfer of blood to black rugby shorts and white tshirt
3 Heard LB "gurgling"

I don't have enough detail to understand.  Where does he say he only observed parents?  I don't know where victims were found?  Although SB fought for his life if he was on his bed would it be obvious he wasn't shot in sleep?  Was LB in bed?  AB was on floor? 

I have JK's book "Trial By Ambush" which I've yet to read.
Dear God

Please curtail Covid-19 to enable me to have my eyebrows and lashes tinted.  Thank you.  PS please look after Jimmy's farm.

Offline Myster

Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #192 on: August 23, 2017, 07:57:43 PM »
I think I read somewhere he was told by the police they were shot whilst asleep/in bed and therefore unaware of what was about to befall them? 

However I will admit there are inconsistencies:

1 "They're all dead" but also said only observed parents, I think?
2 Checked SB for life hence transfer of blood to black rugby shorts and white tshirt
3 Heard LB "gurgling"

I don't have enough detail to understand.  Where does he say he only observed parents?  I don't know where victims were found?  Although SB fought for his life if he was on his bed would it be obvious he wasn't shot in sleep?  Was LB in bed?  AB was on floor? 

I have JK's book "Trial By Ambush" which I've yet to read.

In the first interview with Det Sgt Greg Dunne, when DB was asked to confirm again that he'd only seen his deceased mum and dad. The YouTube video of Dunne's court testimony has been removed for some inexplicable reason, together with others, such as that of his aunt, re. black hands, etc. so can't link to them.  Luckily I downloaded them for reference before they disappeared for good, although the same audios are in MvB's podcasts, but can't remember which ones.

The victims were found roughly in the positions drawn on the floor plan... Stephen lying on his left side in front of a shoe rack with his feet pointing towards his bedroom door (his right hand visible in the photo I previously posted and below); Arawa lying on the floor, out of bed with her eyes facing towards that thick wooden column supporting David's bedroom floor above; Laniet in bed with her head on the pillow but the rest of her body, apart from left arm, covered in blankets.

Stephen might have awoken on hearing his mother being shot first, because his bedroom was just an offshoot of hers, which alerted him to something being amiss and so he was ready to resist, grabbing hold of the silencer in an attempt to push the rifle away.

Offline John

Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #193 on: August 23, 2017, 08:08:59 PM »
One of the two first police responders to the scene, Constable Kim Stephenson, gave evidence, "I was immediately struck by the magazine on its narrow edge right next to Mr Bain's hand. Right away I thought something wasn't right. When I think about the case that's what I think about".

David's "weeping and wailing" also made him suspicious, he says.




Dunedin police constable Kim Stephenson giving evidence at the second trial in 2009.  PC Stephenson was
one of two officers initially called to the scene.




The magazine belonging to the murder weapon was found by first responders sitting on its edge by Robin
Bain's hand.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2017, 08:20:55 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed and an exposť of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
The truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Myster

Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #194 on: August 23, 2017, 08:45:24 PM »
Silly me!... found Greg Dunne's testimony again... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V39E5LGbbEw&t=143s

and... https://youtu.be/sIhQJCJCZtk?t=4m
« Last Edit: August 24, 2017, 05:08:23 AM by Myster »