Author Topic: Moderation queries.  (Read 11670 times)

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Online ShiningInLuz

Re: Moderation queries.
« Reply #150 on: June 03, 2019, 06:46:31 AM »
In my opinion cites are caveat emptor; if there is a strong reason for objecting to one ... that should either be given or reported.

There are two recent issues with that.

1) An instance in which a member did a copy and paste from my blog, then requested a cite from me.  Cites don't work like that.

2) An instance in which a member provided a link and claimed it as a cite.  Since the link in question did not pertain to the debate, there was no point in getting bogged down in its veracity.

Cites are not weapons of debate.  They are either pertinent or they are not.  There is no forum rule that non-pertinent cites have to be accepted or debated.
Ooh, a snowflake!

Offline Brietta

Re: Moderation queries.
« Reply #151 on: June 03, 2019, 08:40:36 AM »
There are two recent issues with that.

1) An instance in which a member did a copy and paste from my blog, then requested a cite from me.  Cites don't work like that.

2) An instance in which a member provided a link and claimed it as a cite.  Since the link in question did not pertain to the debate, there was no point in getting bogged down in its veracity.

Cites are not weapons of debate.  They are either pertinent or they are not.  There is no forum rule that non-pertinent cites have to be accepted or debated.

Why is there the necessity of having to ask for cites.  If one is quoting from a particular source why not just include that in the post as a matter of course to enable members to check it out?  In my opinion that would be the courteous thing to do in the first instance.
The remit of Operation Grange is to investigate ...  "(as if the abduction occurred in the UK)"

Online G-Unit

Re: Moderation queries.
« Reply #152 on: June 03, 2019, 02:12:33 PM »
Why is there the necessity of having to ask for cites.  If one is quoting from a particular source why not just include that in the post as a matter of course to enable members to check it out?  In my opinion that would be the courteous thing to do in the first instance.

When I joined MoJ cites weren't required. Lots of members were posting their own opinions as if they were facts. There was also a lot of paraphrasing going on. The onus was on the reader of the post to decide whether 'fact's' were fact or opinion and whether quotes were correct or paraphrased, which sometimes made them suggest something incorrect.

Although the rules now say that opinions must be identified  as such and cites must be provided for facts that doesn't always happen. Hence the need to ask.
Accept nothing
Believe no-one
Confirm everything

Offline Brietta

Re: Moderation queries.
« Reply #153 on: June 03, 2019, 03:09:49 PM »
When I joined MoJ cites weren't required. Lots of members were posting their own opinions as if they were facts. There was also a lot of paraphrasing going on. The onus was on the reader of the post to decide whether 'fact's' were fact or opinion and whether quotes were correct or paraphrased, which sometimes made them suggest something incorrect.

Although the rules now say that opinions must be identified  as such and cites must be provided for facts that doesn't always happen. Hence the need to ask.
I don't know when you joined the forum but when I joined in late 2013 it was very common for cites to be requested.
The remit of Operation Grange is to investigate ...  "(as if the abduction occurred in the UK)"

Online Eleanor

Re: Moderation queries.
« Reply #154 on: June 03, 2019, 03:31:50 PM »
I don't know when you joined the forum but when I joined in late 2013 it was very common for cites to be requested.

And a lot of them were rubbish.  Still are sometimes.

Online G-Unit

Re: Moderation queries.
« Reply #155 on: June 11, 2019, 10:17:19 AM »
Yet again the rules have been blatantly ignored and action has had to be taken. How many chances should people be given, I wonder?
Accept nothing
Believe no-one
Confirm everything

Offline Erngath

Re: Moderation queries.
« Reply #156 on: June 11, 2019, 05:01:30 PM »
Yet again the rules have been blatantly ignored and action has had to be taken. How many chances should people be given, I wonder?

I suppose some score should be kept .
Perhaps differing penalty points depending on the gravity of the breaking of rules?
Ten points for insulting a fellow poster?
Twenty for insulting a moderator?
Twenty for posting libel?

In school each child was awarded points for good behaviour.
Perhaps that should be considered?

This could be fun!
On a Friday the golden time was a reward for good behaviour.
Some children had their whole half hour of Golden time, some less, some even less and some none at all!

Back to your original question.
Do you have any suggestion of "how many chances people should be given" ?
Deal with the failings of others as gently as with your own.

Online Eleanor

Re: Moderation queries.
« Reply #157 on: June 11, 2019, 05:17:08 PM »

Posters may please themselves.  And Moderators do not have the last word.

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Moderation queries.
« Reply #158 on: June 11, 2019, 05:52:29 PM »
IMO, Davel is deliberately provoked to breaking point by members and mods who seem intent on getting a rise out of him and then using as an excuse to silence him.  I used to be similarly provoked and would rise to the bait.  I probably still would if the mod who used to pursue me relentlessly and give me warning for absolutely nothing hadn’t decided to take a bit of a backseat.  I completely understand Davel’s frustrations.   The answer of course is to rise above the bait but it can be difficult sometimes. 
"The answer is that no-one here believes the parents were directly involved in MM's disappearance" - G-Unit.

Offline Erngath

Re: Moderation queries.
« Reply #159 on: June 11, 2019, 06:00:14 PM »
IMO, Davel is deliberately provoked to breaking point by members and mods who seem intent on getting a rise out of him and then using as an excuse to silence him.  I used to be similarly provoked and would rise to the bait.  I probably still would if the mod who used to pursue me relentlessly and give me warning for absolutely nothing hadn’t decided to take a bit of a backseat.  I completely understand Davel’s frustrations.   The answer of course is to rise above the bait but it can be difficult sometimes.

Observing the entirety of the posts.
Deliberately provoked  is most definitely the correct description.

Deal with the failings of others as gently as with your own.

Online Eleanor

Re: Moderation queries.
« Reply #160 on: June 11, 2019, 06:00:20 PM »
IMO, Davel is deliberately provoked to breaking point by members and mods who seem intent on getting a rise out of him and then using as an excuse to silence him.  I used to be similarly provoked and would rise to the bait.  I probably still would if the mod who used to pursue me relentlessly and give me warning for absolutely nothing hadn’t decided to take a bit of a backseat.  I completely understand Davel’s frustrations.   The answer of course is to rise above the bait but it can be difficult sometimes.

It is often what you don't say that matters.  But this can be hard.

Online G-Unit

Re: Moderation queries.
« Reply #161 on: June 11, 2019, 06:58:52 PM »
IMO, Davel is deliberately provoked to breaking point by members and mods who seem intent on getting a rise out of him and then using as an excuse to silence him.  I used to be similarly provoked and would rise to the bait.  I probably still would if the mod who used to pursue me relentlessly and give me warning for absolutely nothing hadn’t decided to take a bit of a backseat.  I completely understand Davel’s frustrations.   The answer of course is to rise above the bait but it can be difficult sometimes.

Self control is definitely the answer imo, because the alterative is being controlled by others. My method is to write my answer to a post which annoys me then read it back. I then edit or delete it, depending. It's a trick I used with emails.

Accept nothing
Believe no-one
Confirm everything

Offline Erngath

Re: Moderation queries.
« Reply #162 on: June 11, 2019, 07:07:42 PM »
Self control is definitely the answer imo, because the alterative is being controlled by others. My method is to write my answer to a post which annoys me then read it back. I then edit or delete it, depending. It's a trick I used with emails.

To be fair, you have never, ever been subjected to the over moderating and combined hounding by two posters which Davel was subjected to on that evening.
An annoying post can be easily ignored.
I do it many a time.
But that is not the same as the unfair moderating and goading which Davel was subjected to on that evening!
« Last Edit: June 11, 2019, 07:19:33 PM by Erngath »
Deal with the failings of others as gently as with your own.

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Moderation queries.
« Reply #163 on: June 11, 2019, 08:12:39 PM »
Self control is definitely the answer imo, because the alterative is being controlled by others. My method is to write my answer to a post which annoys me then read it back. I then edit or delete it, depending. It's a trick I used with emails.
You’d be amazed (or not) by how many posts I begin with “you complete tw..” and then delete before posting..l 8(>((
"The answer is that no-one here believes the parents were directly involved in MM's disappearance" - G-Unit.

Online Eleanor

Re: Moderation queries.
« Reply #164 on: June 11, 2019, 08:14:39 PM »
You’d be amazed (or not) by how many posts I begin with “you complete tw..” and then delete before posting..l 8(>((

I get the same urge myself sometimes.  But it would never do, of course.