Is the impression of a child lying on the bed visible?

[Robittybob1]

In a YouTube documentary by Steve Gibson he raises the point that there is a visible impression on Madeleine's bed and once he pointed it out to me I can't seem to not see it from now on.  Is this a real impression that he outlines or not?
https://youtu.be/Ayr7Dzet-D8?t=2939 is the start of the relevant section. 
What does the forum think about this matter?

[stephen25000]

The bed Rob looks barely disturbed, and in my opinion does not look slept in at all.

[G-Unit]

Kate said Madeleine snuggled down. This is what 'snuggled down' looks like at 10:10

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79WbUuCSyFs

[John]

In a YouTube documentary by Steve Gibson he raises the point that there is a visible impression on Madeleine's bed and once he pointed it out to me I can't seem to not see it from now on.  Is this a real impression that he outlines or not?
https://youtu.be/Ayr7Dzet-D8?t=2939 is the start of the relevant section. 
What does the forum think about this matter?

By the time this photo had been taken any number of people could have sat on or moved the bed coverings so no inference can possibly be made from it.

[misty]

By the time this photo had been taken any number of people could have sat on or moved the bed coverings so no inference can possibly be made from it.

All the more reason the bedding should have been bagged up & sent for analysis. The PJ don't even seem to have asked if the bed was made in the morning & the pillow pumped up.

[G-Unit]

All the more reason the bedding should have been bagged up & sent for analysis. The PJ don't even seem to have asked if the bed was made in the morning & the pillow pumped up.

What kind of analysis?

[Brietta]

What kind of analysis?

Madeleine: How the police ruined the forensic evidence in her bedroom
By VANESSA ALLEN
Last updated at 01:22 16 November 2007

Poice searching for Madeleine McCann allowed potentially crucial clues from her bed to be destroyed, it emerged yesterday.
Detectives failed to send her bedding for analysis, even though an abductor could have left fibres, fingerprints or DNA on it.

By the time officers returned to the Ocean Club apartment more than 24 hours after Madeleine's disappearance, cleaners at the holiday complex had washed the sheets, blankets and pillowcase.

A source from the Portuguese police laboratory said: "Some important clue could have been found on those items besides hair, which was what was sent to the institute.
"They forgot that the items in the bedroom could hypothetically have had fibres belonging to a possible abductor or even a fingerprint."

The error is the latest in a series of blunders surrounding the collection of forensic evidence from Kate and Gerry McCann's apartment in Praia da Luz.

Police failed to seal off the apartment as a crime scene, meaning vital samples were contaminated with ash from officers' cigarettes.

Other evidence was trampled under foot by up to 50 people, who left shoe marks and fingerprints.

Officers also allowed the McCanns to move their possessions to another apartment.

Mr and Mrs McCann, both 39, from Leicestershire, have always insisted their daughter was abducted while they ate dinner with friends nearby.

They have been horrified by blunders in the investigation, which they fear could have destroyed their chances of learning what happened to Madeleine.

Their spokesman Clarence Mitchell declined to comment-on the police investigation, but said it was hoped it was being carried out "as professionally and as competently as possible".

Forensics expert Allan Scott said the bedding could have been a vital source of evidence.
"It is very difficult to be in contact with another surface and not leave a trace of yourself behind."

Further forensic sampling was carried out in the apartment in August, after sniffer dogs allegedly found the "scent of death" and microscopic traces of blood.

Scientists have continued to work on the samples in the hope they could still provide a breakthrough.

The revelations came as a lawyer began moves to bring a private prosecution against the McCanns for alleged child neglect.
Anthony Bennett faxed an application for a court summons against the couple to magistrates in Leicestershire.
He said his move was sparked by a 'lack of action' by the Leicestershire authorities.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-494203/Madeleine-How-police-ruined-forensic-evidence-bedroom.html#ixzz4qEIHLDqa

[stephen25000]

Madeleine: How the police ruined the forensic evidence in her bedroom
By VANESSA ALLEN
Last updated at 01:22 16 November 2007

Poice searching for Madeleine McCann allowed potentially crucial clues from her bed to be destroyed, it emerged yesterday.
Detectives failed to send her bedding for analysis, even though an abductor could have left fibres, fingerprints or DNA on it.

By the time officers returned to the Ocean Club apartment more than 24 hours after Madeleine's disappearance, cleaners at the holiday complex had washed the sheets, blankets and pillowcase.

A source from the Portuguese police laboratory said: "Some important clue could have been found on those items besides hair, which was what was sent to the institute.
"They forgot that the items in the bedroom could hypothetically have had fibres belonging to a possible abductor or even a fingerprint."

The error is the latest in a series of blunders surrounding the collection of forensic evidence from Kate and Gerry McCann's apartment in Praia da Luz.

Police failed to seal off the apartment as a crime scene, meaning vital samples were contaminated with ash from officers' cigarettes.

Other evidence was trampled under foot by up to 50 people, who left shoe marks and fingerprints.

Officers also allowed the McCanns to move their possessions to another apartment.

Mr and Mrs McCann, both 39, from Leicestershire, have always insisted their daughter was abducted while they ate dinner with friends nearby.

They have been horrified by blunders in the investigation, which they fear could have destroyed their chances of learning what happened to Madeleine.

Their spokesman Clarence Mitchell declined to comment-on the police investigation, but said it was hoped it was being carried out "as professionally and as competently as possible".

Forensics expert Allan Scott said the bedding could have been a vital source of evidence.
"It is very difficult to be in contact with another surface and not leave a trace of yourself behind."

Further forensic sampling was carried out in the apartment in August, after sniffer dogs allegedly found the "scent of death" and microscopic traces of blood.

Scientists have continued to work on the samples in the hope they could still provide a breakthrough.

The revelations came as a lawyer began moves to bring a private prosecution against the McCanns for alleged child neglect.
Anthony Bennett faxed an application for a court summons against the couple to magistrates in Leicestershire.
He said his move was sparked by a 'lack of action' by the Leicestershire authorities.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-494203/Madeleine-How-police-ruined-forensic-evidence-bedroom.html#ixzz4qEIHLDqa

Three points.

An 'abductor' is an unproven possibility.

Secondly, what is Ms. Allen's expertise in this field ?

...and of course that was a 2007 article..

[John]

If, and it is still a big if, Madeleine was abducted from her bed then there was every chance that the alleged abductor left DNA evidence behind on the bed covers or on the floor by the bed.  If the PJ failed to avail of those opportunities then they were indeed negligent.

[misty]

Three points.

An 'abductor' is an unproven possibility.

Secondly, what is Ms. Allen's expertise in this field ?

...and of course that was a 2007 article..

You're not going to find forensic evidence if you don't look for it. The bedroom curtains should also have been taken away for trace analysis. I don't expect you to understand how necessary that was, as you are clearly of the same mindset as Amaral.

[stephen25000]

You're not going to find forensic evidence if you don't look for it. The bedroom curtains should also have been taken away for trace analysis. I don't expect you to understand how necessary that was, as you are clearly of the same mindset as Amaral.

Ah the insults fly again.

I do understand, and eminently far more than you appear to do.

The parents and associates contaminated the crime scene, whilst searching for an abducted child in the apartment.

I have said in the past, the forensic testing could have been more thorough, but then again, we are relying on press reports.

Neither of us was there.

The parents could also have submitted the articles for testing. After all they are supposed to be intelligent.

Likewise, the other children should have been tested for drugs/sedatives, and neither the PJ or the parents did anything about it.

The McCann's tests a few months later were irrelevant and certainly not independent.

[misty]

Ah the insults fly again.

I do understand, and eminently far more than you appear to do.

The parents and associates contaminated the crime scene, whilst searching for an abducted child in the apartment.

I have said in the past, the forensic testing could have been more thorough, but then again, we are relying on press reports.

Neither of us was there.

The parents could also have submitted the articles for testing. After all they are supposed to be intelligent.

Likewise, the other children should have been tested for drugs/sedatives, and neither the PJ or the parents did anything about it.

The McCann's tests a few months later were irrelevant and certainly not independent.

Who, exactly, was directing the investigation - the victims or the police?

[Robittybob1]

If, and it is still a big if, Madeleine was abducted from her bed then there was every chance that the alleged abductor left DNA evidence behind on the bed covers or on the floor by the bed.  If the PJ failed to avail of those opportunities then they were indeed negligent.

What I found amazing to discover was that no one ever secured the crime scene in that the patio door was never secured.  Another thing that is amazing is that the bed clothes from Madeleine's bed were allowed to be laundered.

[G-Unit]

Madeleine: How the police ruined the forensic evidence in her bedroom
By VANESSA ALLEN
Last updated at 01:22 16 November 2007

Poice searching for Madeleine McCann allowed potentially crucial clues from her bed to be destroyed, it emerged yesterday.
Detectives failed to send her bedding for analysis, even though an abductor could have left fibres, fingerprints or DNA on it.

By the time officers returned to the Ocean Club apartment more than 24 hours after Madeleine's disappearance, cleaners at the holiday complex had washed the sheets, blankets and pillowcase.

A source from the Portuguese police laboratory said: "Some important clue could have been found on those items besides hair, which was what was sent to the institute.
"They forgot that the items in the bedroom could hypothetically have had fibres belonging to a possible abductor or even a fingerprint."

The error is the latest in a series of blunders surrounding the collection of forensic evidence from Kate and Gerry McCann's apartment in Praia da Luz.

Police failed to seal off the apartment as a crime scene, meaning vital samples were contaminated with ash from officers' cigarettes.

Other evidence was trampled under foot by up to 50 people, who left shoe marks and fingerprints.

Officers also allowed the McCanns to move their possessions to another apartment.

Mr and Mrs McCann, both 39, from Leicestershire, have always insisted their daughter was abducted while they ate dinner with friends nearby.

They have been horrified by blunders in the investigation, which they fear could have destroyed their chances of learning what happened to Madeleine.

Their spokesman Clarence Mitchell declined to comment-on the police investigation, but said it was hoped it was being carried out "as professionally and as competently as possible".

Forensics expert Allan Scott said the bedding could have been a vital source of evidence.
"It is very difficult to be in contact with another surface and not leave a trace of yourself behind."

Further forensic sampling was carried out in the apartment in August, after sniffer dogs allegedly found the "scent of death" and microscopic traces of blood.

Scientists have continued to work on the samples in the hope they could still provide a breakthrough.

The revelations came as a lawyer began moves to bring a private prosecution against the McCanns for alleged child neglect.
Anthony Bennett faxed an application for a court summons against the couple to magistrates in Leicestershire.
He said his move was sparked by a 'lack of action' by the Leicestershire authorities.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-494203/Madeleine-How-police-ruined-forensic-evidence-bedroom.html#ixzz4qEIHLDqa

Inaccuracies;

"By the time officers returned to the Ocean Club apartment more than 24 hours after Madeleine's disappearance, cleaners at the holiday complex had washed the sheets, blankets and pillowcase".

The forensic team from the Police Science Laboratory arrived at 15.30 on 4th May. The photographs they took clearly show the bedding in place on the bed.

"Police failed to seal off the apartment as a crime scene, meaning vital samples were contaminated with ash from officers' cigarettes"

The apartment was locked by the PJ team at around 4am on the 4th and the GNR guarded it thereafter.

"Officers also allowed the McCanns to move their possessions to another apartment."

They were allowed to take some items before the apartment was secured and the remainder were collected by the McCanns and Emma Knight on the morning of Sunday 6th.

A search was also made for possible biological traces and fibres on the single bed from where the minor disappeared, using a variable-wave light source appropriate for the task, the result obtained having been negative.

The area of the pillow of the bed from the minor disappeared was inspected with the intention to detect the presence of some smell [aroma] characteristic of volatile substances typical of chloroform or ether, this search proving negative
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/5A_FORENSIC_4_5_7.htm

[stephen25000]

Who, exactly, was directing the investigation - the victims or the police?

Who is responsible for this case ?

Tell me also, why the parents didn't submit the clothes, plus of course the toy for testing ?

After all , part of most medical courses would include analytical chemistry, as would 'A' Level courses in Chemistry, which presumably both did. They would be aware of the need for testing materials forensically.