Author Topic: Police malpractice  (Read 3856 times)

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Offline tbl

Police malpractice
« on: August 20, 2017, 05:18:04 PM »
Jeremy Bamber supporters always allege police malpractice, usually in collaboration with the extended family. I find this unconvincing, as it strikes me that it would have been in Essex police's interest for him not to be convicted. Sheila was the initial suspect, and if the conclusion was that she was responsible, then there would have been no need for Essex police to do anything. If they had not pursued Bamber, nobody except the relatives would have had any issues, and having obtained his inheritance he would have been very unlikely to reoffend. By pursuing Jeremy Bamber, they opened themselves to very public criticism for their initial failings.

So can anyone explain why Essex police would have any incentive to see Jeremy Bamber convicted? What would have been the motivation for any police malpractice?


Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Police malpractice
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2017, 05:41:03 PM »
Jeremy Bamber supporters always allege police malpractice, usually in collaboration with the extended family. I find this unconvincing, as it strikes me that it would have been in Essex police's interest for him not to be convicted. Sheila was the initial suspect, and if the conclusion was that she was responsible, then there would have been no need for Essex police to do anything. If they had not pursued Bamber, nobody except the relatives would have had any issues, and having obtained his inheritance he would have been very unlikely to reoffend. By pursuing Jeremy Bamber, they opened themselves to very public criticism for their initial failings.

So can anyone explain why Essex police would have any incentive to see Jeremy Bamber convicted? What would have been the motivation for any police malpractice?

My opinion is that EP were way of their depth with a mass shooting.  It seems to me they were poorly trained and managed.  The relatives convinced them SC could not have been responsible and by default JB was the perp.  Who wants to think of a mass murdering child killer walking away with some 400k?
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Samson

Re: Police malpractice
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2017, 07:15:04 PM »
My opinion is that EP were way of their depth with a mass shooting.  It seems to me they were poorly trained and managed.  The relatives convinced them SC could not have been responsible and by default JB was the perp.  Who wants to think of a mass murdering child killer walking away with some 400k?
Or was it just more fun to have an intrigue running? Nothing like a mass killer to arraign and analyse.
Clever dick Stan Jones is the culprit from memory.

Offline steve_trousers

Re: Police malpractice
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2017, 12:40:10 AM »
Jeremy Bamber supporters always allege police malpractice, usually in collaboration with the extended family. I find this unconvincing, as it strikes me that it would have been in Essex police's interest for him not to be convicted. Sheila was the initial suspect, and if the conclusion was that she was responsible, then there would have been no need for Essex police to do anything. If they had not pursued Bamber, nobody except the relatives would have had any issues, and having obtained his inheritance he would have been very unlikely to reoffend. By pursuing Jeremy Bamber, they opened themselves to very public criticism for their initial failings.

So can anyone explain why Essex police would have any incentive to see Jeremy Bamber convicted? What would have been the motivation for any police malpractice?

Rest assured there was no police malpractice, they did a good job under unusual circumstances.
Sounds good though doesn't it ? when your squealing for a miscarriage it's easy to pounce on any discrepancy in the initial investigation and blame the police.

As you pointed out, it's not just the police. It's the extended family, the thoroughly decent and conscionable Julie Mugford, the courts. In fact It's all a big conspiracy to keep Jeremy Bamber behind bars.
 

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Police malpractice
« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2017, 09:39:12 AM »
Rest assured there was no police malpractice, they did a good job under unusual circumstances.
Sounds good though doesn't it ? when your squealing for a miscarriage it's easy to pounce on any discrepancy in the initial investigation and blame the police.

As you pointed out, it's not just the police. It's the extended family, the thoroughly decent and conscionable Julie Mugford, the courts. In fact It's all a big conspiracy to keep Jeremy Bamber behind bars.

I agree I think EP did an overall good job based on their experience and training. The fact remains WHF was an extremely complex SOC and I've yet to see any evidence anyone was up to the task of analysing the key evidence.  When I say anyone I include expert witnesses, lawyers and trial judge.  

If anyone disagrees please point me in the direction of another peacetime mass shooting that wasn't witnessed by numerous others.  

What does the police training manual 1985 have to say about mass shootings?
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Angelo222

Re: Police malpractice
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2017, 05:28:22 PM »
I agree Holly, it would have been so much easier for them to have gone with the four murders and a suicide instead of the five murders scenario.  It would have saved the taxpayer a fortune too.

Essex Police did a good job with DS Stan Jones being very much the kingpin in nailing Jeremy Bamber.  Bamber's cockness was his undoing, on the day of the murders he dropped his guard with Julie Mugford and fortunately Jones was quick to notice it.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2017, 05:33:31 PM by Angelo222 »
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Police malpractice
« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2017, 07:55:21 PM »
I agree Holly, it would have been so much easier for them to have gone with the four murders and a suicide instead of the five murders scenario.  It would have saved the taxpayer a fortune too.

Essex Police did a good job with DS Stan Jones being very much the kingpin in nailing Jeremy Bamber.  Bamber's cockness was his undoing, on the day of the murders he dropped his guard with Julie Mugford and fortunately Jones was quick to notice it.

Hopefully investigators go where the evidence takes them.  In JB's case there's no evidence EP had the relevant experience and expertise to manage a complex soc like WHF.

Dr Vanezis confirmed DS Jones offered nothing of evidential value during a group meeting.

Imo the case is about the physical evidence at soc: ballistics, blood stains and pathological evidence.  I don't put much weight on evidence provided by the like of DS Jones and JM. 
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline John

Re: Police malpractice
« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2017, 01:01:06 AM »
Hopefully investigators go where the evidence takes them.  In JB's case there's no evidence EP had the relevant experience and expertise to manage a complex soc like WHF.

Dr Vanezis confirmed DS Jones offered nothing of evidential value during a group meeting.

Imo the case is about the physical evidence at soc: ballistics, blood stains and pathological evidence.  I don't put much weight on evidence provided by the like of DS Jones and JM.

Julie Mugford's evidence sealed the deal, she put the meat on the bones, she provided the missing pieces to the puzzle.  I have long wondered why Jeremy Bamber took her into his confidence to the extent he did if he planned a family murder.  Was he so naive as to think that she would stand by him after committing such a dreadful deed?

My own view is that Essex Police wrestled with the case since officers like Taff Jones actually believed Jeremy Bamber to be innocent. They got it right in the end though, the evidence proves it!

« Last Edit: August 26, 2017, 01:05:12 AM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Tim Invictus

Re: Police malpractice
« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2017, 03:20:55 PM »
Julie Mugford's evidence sealed the deal, she put the meat on the bones, she provided the missing pieces to the puzzle.  I have long wondered why Jeremy Bamber took her into his confidence to the extent he did if he planned a family murder.  Was he so naive as to think that she would stand by him after committing such a dreadful deed?

My own view is that Essex Police wrestled with the case since officers like Taff Jones actually believed Jeremy Bamber to be innocent. They got it right in the end though, the evidence proves it!

I agree John; Taff Jones is the only copper I would criticise. He jumped to the wrong conclusion having swallowed Jeremy's stage managed scene then had too much hubris to admit he had made a huge mistake. Stan Jones and Julie Mugford sunk Bamber along with his own arrogance.

Michael Howard is a star too .... without his intervention Bamber would have been freed years ago.

Offline John

Re: Police malpractice
« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2017, 03:42:13 PM »
I agree John; Taff Jones is the only copper I would criticise. He jumped to the wrong conclusion having swallowed Jeremy's stage managed scene then had too much hubris to admit he had made a huge mistake. Stan Jones and Julie Mugford sunk Bamber along with his own arrogance.

Michael Howard is a star too .... without his intervention Bamber would have been freed years ago.

Hi Tim, good to hear from you.

It is always difficult for junior police officers to go against their seniors but DS Stan Jones could see that all was not as it should have been.  He was a professional of the old school, he was dogmatic and persevered like any good copper should despite his superior DCI Taff Jones wanting to wind the case up as four murders and a suicide. 

I agree several people have played their part in keeping Bamber behind bars but Stan Jones was the key from the outset.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2017, 02:50:53 AM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Police malpractice
« Reply #10 on: August 29, 2017, 01:20:52 PM »
I've no idea why so much attention is paid to the two officers with the surname of Jones.  Imo the soc was way beyond ANY UK police officer regardless of rank.  If anyone disagrees please point me in the direction of another peacetime mass shooting which resulted in 5 murders or 4 murders/1 suicide and where the perp could only have been 1 of 2.   
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Police malpractice
« Reply #11 on: August 29, 2017, 02:15:05 PM »
Julie Mugford's evidence sealed the deal, she put the meat on the bones, she provided the missing pieces to the puzzle.  I have long wondered why Jeremy Bamber took her into his confidence to the extent he did if he planned a family murder.  Was he so naive as to think that she would stand by him after committing such a dreadful deed?

My own view is that Essex Police wrestled with the case since officers like Taff Jones actually believed Jeremy Bamber to be innocent. They got it right in the end though, the evidence proves it!

I accept that the silencer taken at face value is very compelling evidence against JB but I understand this is likely to be undermined as a result of further forensic tests. 

As far as I can see all the other aspects have already been undermined:

- Had the silencer not been used then the rifle would contain SC's blood in/on around muzzle.
FALSE  Hundreds of firearms involving contact shots were examined in US for the prescence of blood.  A significant % showed an absence of blood.

(Dr Vincent DiMaio)

- Had SC been responsible her nightdress would have contained blood from victims.
FALSE  There's no reliable indicator for the prescene of blood spatter from gsw's.  In any event only 2 areas of SC's nightdress were tested.  Maybe areas not  tested contained victims' blood but since the nightdress has now been destroyed we will never know!  Also the rifle, found on SC's person and resting on her nightdress, did contain some blood smears and splashes but these blood stains do not appear to have been transferred to her nightdress or if they did they were not detected from within the 2 areas tested.

(Prof Herb MacDonnel)

- Had SC used the rifle her fingerprints would be all over it.
FALSE Latent fingerprints are difficult to recover from firearms due to the coating known as bluing.

(Dr John Bond)

- Had SC used the ammo her fingers/hands would contain debris. 
FALSE Based on my own visit to a gun shop where I loaded the exact same bullets into the Anschutz mag my fingers/hands were spotlessly clean to the naked eye.

(My experience) 

- Had SC used the rifle her nightdress would contain gun oil.
FALSE I have never read anything in forensic text books about gun oil as evidence of anyone discharging a firearm.  However given the rifle was found resting on SC's person/nightdress if any gun oil was on the rifle then surely it would have been detected whether SC was perp or victim.

(Me)

- Had SC used the rifle her fingers/hands would contain GSR.
TRUE BUT FALSE!  Had SC's hands been swabbed at SOC shortly after the rifle had been discharged then GSR may well have been found on the swabs.  However as we know SC's hands were not swabbed until afternoon of 7th Aug which was many hours after the rifle was last discharged.  Furthermore her hands were moved at SOC twice and placed in bags.  The bags were not examined for the prescence of GSR.  In this case the prescence of GSR could be argued both ways since SC was found in an environment where the rifle had been discharged many times and her hands/fingers were found resting on the rifle.

(The entire forensic science community)

- Had SC used the rifle she would have damaged her hands/nail polish
FALSE Based on my visit to the gun shop above nothing could be simpler than loading the bullets into the mag.  Far more straightforward than having to lever a battery out of say a remote control and then replace.  SC led an independent life and was mother to two young boys which involves far more hazardous activities to nails/polish than loading mag, attaching to rifle, chambering a round and pulling trigger. 

(My experience)
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline puglove

Re: Police malpractice
« Reply #12 on: August 29, 2017, 11:01:44 PM »
Hi Tim, good to hear from you.

It is always difficult for junior police officers to go against their seniors but DS Stan Jones could see that all was not as it should have been.  He was a professional of the old school, he was dogmatic and persevered like any good copper should despite his superior DCI Taff Jones wanting to wind the case up as four murders and a suicide. 

I agree several people have played their part in keeping Bamber behind bars but Stan Jones was the key from the outset.

Yes, thank goodness for Stan - he was conscientious and brave, a proper copper.

Taff was too fond of his golf.     8(8-))
Jeremy Bamber kicked Mike Tesko in the fanny.

Offline puglove

Re: Police malpractice
« Reply #13 on: August 29, 2017, 11:51:45 PM »
Yes, thank goodness for Stan - he was conscientious and brave, a proper copper.

Taff was too fond of his golf.     8(8-))

And if Nelly (admin) on blue wasn't so partisan, and dealt with posts as he's supposed to, and wasn't such a thin-skinned adulation junkie, he'd put a stop to Clappedout's endless insults aimed at June and Sheila. Clappy didn't know them, she isn't worth the shit on their shoes, and her posts are inappropriate, disgusting and wrong.
Jeremy Bamber kicked Mike Tesko in the fanny.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Police malpractice
« Reply #14 on: August 31, 2017, 05:26:12 PM »
And if Nelly (admin) on blue wasn't so partisan, and dealt with posts as he's supposed to, and wasn't such a thin-skinned adulation junkie, he'd put a stop to Clappedout's endless insults aimed at June and Sheila. Clappy didn't know them, she isn't worth the shit on their shoes, and her posts are inappropriate, disgusting and wrong.

I do recall she made a comment a week or so ago about SC which coming from someone who spent all/most of her working life in mental health really beggars belief.  She knows she has a problem as I've seen her post up about her lack of diplomacy but her argument is you can't teach an old dog new tricks! 
« Last Edit: August 31, 2017, 06:10:56 PM by Holly Goodhead »
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?