Author Topic: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)  (Read 14497 times)

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Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
« Reply #3765 on: October 05, 2018, 06:47:38 PM »
I'm not comparing public suspicion. I was comparing evidence that the police collected. They found quite a bit of evidence and we have not been told which pieces ( if any) relate to an abductor.  A blanket was found, sandals, footprints outside the house and police DID believe the window screen on the floor to be evidence of entry - unlike the McCann case with just them insisting the window was a point of entry.

  I would wait until the Celis case is over completely before deciding it is so similar.

The evidence is detailed here;

https://www.scribd.com/document/343663429/Tucson-Police-Department-Isabel-Celis-Report-6
Plenty of evidence has been collected from witnesses in the McCann case, as yet we don’t know which pertains to the perpetrator (s), there is also a possible point of entry, the similarities are myriad. 

Offline Gertrude

Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
« Reply #3766 on: October 05, 2018, 07:03:19 PM »
Plenty of evidence has been collected from witnesses in the McCann case, as yet we don’t know which pertains to the perpetrator (s), there is also a possible point of entry, the similarities are myriad.

Yes plenty of evidence in an investigation that was shelved because none of it proved an abductor had been there. I think you're being disingenuous if you mean the entry point was the window. No police in the McCann case have agreed it was an entry point. Even Clarence Mitchell eventually confirmed there was no forced entry. The Celis evidence has not been assessed and tested publicly yet.

Quote
Chief Inspector Olegario Sousa, spokesman for the investigation, has confided in British former Chief Inspector Albert Kirby that neither the windows nor their shutters had been tampered with.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/madeleines-parents-left-patio-doors-unlocked-6582022.html

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
« Reply #3767 on: October 05, 2018, 07:25:21 PM »
Yes plenty of evidence in an investigation that was shelved because none of it proved an abductor had been there. I think you're being disingenuous if you mean the entry point was the window. No police in the McCann case have agreed it was an entry point. Even Clarence Mitchell eventually confirmed there was no forced entry. The Celis evidence has not been assessed and tested publicly yet.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/madeleines-parents-left-patio-doors-unlocked-6582022.html
I am not being disingenuous.  I said there was a POSSIBLE point of entry which there is, we don’t know what the current police have agreed re: the open window and how could anyone rule it out 100% anyway?  If you refuse to accept that there are numerous parallels between the two cases then that is up to you.

Offline John

Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
« Reply #3768 on: October 05, 2018, 10:58:01 PM »
'Maddie's still in Portugal': Detective who worked on Madeleine McCann case believes she could be alive with no idea of world-wide hunt to find her - as police ask for more cash for search

Former detective Dave Edgar believes missing Madeleine McCann is still alive
Speaking last year Mr Edgar claimed the disappearance was 'intricately planned'
Mr Edgar said it was 'unlikely' that Madeleine was smuggled out of the country

A former detective has revealed he remains 'hopeful' that Madeleine McCann will be found alive in Portugal.

Former Detective Inspector Dave Edgar was hired by Kate and Gerry McCann to look into their daughter's disappearance and worked on the case for three years before it was taken over by the Met Police in 2011.

Speaking out today, Mr Edgar believes the case is 'solvable' and maintains there are 'people out there who know what happened'.

Last year Mr Edgar claimed the kidnapper was being protected and said the disappearance was 'intricately planned by a gang of paedophiles'.

He once said he believed Madeleine was being held in an underground cell or dungeon, like the victims of Josef Fritzl.

Mr Edgar told The Sun today there is still the chance of a breakthrough, adding: '[Madeleine] could literally be anywhere in the world but my hunch is that she is in Portugal.

The chance that she may have been smuggled out of the country without being detected is highly unlikely. There is someone in Portugal with an open knowledge of where she is and what happened.'

Last week, the Home Office confirmed it was considering an application from Scotland Yard for more funding to continue the hunt for the youngster.

In a blog published on September 26, it said: 'We have received and are considering a request from the Metropolitan Police Service to extend funding for Operation Grange until the end of March 2019.

'The Home Office maintains an ongoing dialogue with the MPS regarding funding for Operation Grange.'

Scotland Yard launched Operation Grange in 2013 after a Portuguese inquiry failed to make any headway.

UK detectives were granted an extra £150,000 in March to continue the probe, to cover until the end of September.

Operation Grange has cost £11.6 million so far.


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6234789/Detective-worked-Madeleine-McCann-case-believes-alive.html

This is all merely supposition and opinion by Dave Edgar.  The real difficulty is an absence of credible evidence one way or another.  She might well have been carried off but what happened to her then is anyone's guess.
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. John Lamberton exposes malfeasance by public officials.
Check out my website >   http://johnlamberton.webs.com/index.htm?no_redirect=true     The truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Faithlilly

Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
« Reply #3769 on: October 12, 2018, 05:14:42 PM »
Well said that man.


https://youtu.be/REaaC8y4GR8
Moral Guilt
Detractors of the work of our British Police in bringing criminals to justice generally ignore the important distinction between moral proof and legal evidence of guilt. In not a few cases that are popularly classed with 'unsolved mysteries of crime,' the offender is known, but evidence is wanting. If, for example, in- a recent murder case of special notoriety and interest,* certain human remains had not been found in a cellar, a great crime would have been catalogued among `Police failures'; and yet, even without the evidence which sent the murderer to the gallows, the moral proof of his guilt would have been full and clear.
Robert Anderson

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
« Reply #3770 on: October 12, 2018, 05:27:06 PM »
Well said that man.


https://youtu.be/REaaC8y4GR8
I agree with him broadly but his ranting got on my nerves and I had to switch off.  Out of interest though, who went to jail for three months for telling a Madeleine McCann joke on social media? 

Offline Faithlilly

Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
« Reply #3771 on: October 12, 2018, 05:54:26 PM »
I agree with him broadly but his ranting got on my nerves and I had to switch off.  Out of interest though, who went to jail for three months for telling a Madeleine McCann joke on social media?

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2012/oct/08/april-jones-matthew-woods-jailed
Moral Guilt
Detractors of the work of our British Police in bringing criminals to justice generally ignore the important distinction between moral proof and legal evidence of guilt. In not a few cases that are popularly classed with 'unsolved mysteries of crime,' the offender is known, but evidence is wanting. If, for example, in- a recent murder case of special notoriety and interest,* certain human remains had not been found in a cellar, a great crime would have been catalogued among `Police failures'; and yet, even without the evidence which sent the murderer to the gallows, the moral proof of his guilt would have been full and clear.
Robert Anderson

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
« Reply #3772 on: October 12, 2018, 06:00:01 PM »
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2012/oct/08/april-jones-matthew-woods-jailed
Right so it wasn’t just a one off Madeleine McCann joke, he made numerous posts of a sexually explicit nature concerning two dead/missing children.  He should have been put in stocks in the village green and had rotten tomatoes chucked at him for a week.

Offline Faithlilly

Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
« Reply #3773 on: October 12, 2018, 06:05:55 PM »
Right so it wasn’t just a one off Madeleine McCann joke, he made numerous posts of a sexually explicit nature concerning two dead/missing children.  He should have been put in stocks in the village green and had rotten tomatoes chucked at him for a week.

Sick jokes have done the rounds since time immemorial. They’re not pleasant but surely not worthy of a jail sentence ?
Moral Guilt
Detractors of the work of our British Police in bringing criminals to justice generally ignore the important distinction between moral proof and legal evidence of guilt. In not a few cases that are popularly classed with 'unsolved mysteries of crime,' the offender is known, but evidence is wanting. If, for example, in- a recent murder case of special notoriety and interest,* certain human remains had not been found in a cellar, a great crime would have been catalogued among `Police failures'; and yet, even without the evidence which sent the murderer to the gallows, the moral proof of his guilt would have been full and clear.
Robert Anderson

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
« Reply #3774 on: October 12, 2018, 06:11:51 PM »
Sick jokes have done the rounds since time immemorial. They’re not pleasant but surely not worthy of a jail sentence ?
They were so sick that it caused a mob of 50 to encircle his house before he was even arrested.  Jail was obviously the safest place for him.

Offline Faithlilly

Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
« Reply #3775 on: October 12, 2018, 06:29:09 PM »
They were so sick that it caused a mob of 50 to encircle his house before he was even arrested.  Jail was obviously the safest place for him.

Probably the same type that tried to linch the paediatrician thinking he was a paedophile.
Moral Guilt
Detractors of the work of our British Police in bringing criminals to justice generally ignore the important distinction between moral proof and legal evidence of guilt. In not a few cases that are popularly classed with 'unsolved mysteries of crime,' the offender is known, but evidence is wanting. If, for example, in- a recent murder case of special notoriety and interest,* certain human remains had not been found in a cellar, a great crime would have been catalogued among `Police failures'; and yet, even without the evidence which sent the murderer to the gallows, the moral proof of his guilt would have been full and clear.
Robert Anderson

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
« Reply #3776 on: October 12, 2018, 06:35:45 PM »
Probably the same type that tried to linch the paediatrician thinking he was a paedophile.
Maybe, but obviously what this man wrote online was beyond the pale and caused public outrage.  Perhaps that is why he was given a jail sentence.  Frankie Boyle cracked a Madeleine McCann joke on tour but did not end up in prison to the best of my recollection.

Offline Faithlilly

Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
« Reply #3777 on: October 12, 2018, 06:42:24 PM »
Maybe, but obviously what this man wrote online was beyond the pale and caused public outrage.  Perhaps that is why he was given a jail sentence.  Frankie Boyle cracked a Madeleine McCann joke on tour but did not end up in prison to the best of my recollection.

Public outrage ? 50 people ?
Moral Guilt
Detractors of the work of our British Police in bringing criminals to justice generally ignore the important distinction between moral proof and legal evidence of guilt. In not a few cases that are popularly classed with 'unsolved mysteries of crime,' the offender is known, but evidence is wanting. If, for example, in- a recent murder case of special notoriety and interest,* certain human remains had not been found in a cellar, a great crime would have been catalogued among `Police failures'; and yet, even without the evidence which sent the murderer to the gallows, the moral proof of his guilt would have been full and clear.
Robert Anderson

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
« Reply #3778 on: October 12, 2018, 06:46:04 PM »
Public outrage ? 50 people ?
Yes, public outrage.  If you walk through town with a t-shirt on it saying “I f*cked Madeleine McCann” you would be potentially guilty of outraging public decency, even if only 50 people saw your shirt, and probably if only 5 people saw it.

Offline Faithlilly

Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
« Reply #3779 on: October 12, 2018, 07:06:14 PM »
Yes, public outrage.  If you walk through town with a t-shirt on it saying “I f*cked Madeleine McCann” you would be potentially guilty of outraging public decency, even if only 50 people saw your shirt, and probably if only 5 people saw it.

I take it these jokes where posted on his own Facebook or twitter feed. Surely you’d have to consciously make the effort to read them to be outraged ?
Moral Guilt
Detractors of the work of our British Police in bringing criminals to justice generally ignore the important distinction between moral proof and legal evidence of guilt. In not a few cases that are popularly classed with 'unsolved mysteries of crime,' the offender is known, but evidence is wanting. If, for example, in- a recent murder case of special notoriety and interest,* certain human remains had not been found in a cellar, a great crime would have been catalogued among `Police failures'; and yet, even without the evidence which sent the murderer to the gallows, the moral proof of his guilt would have been full and clear.
Robert Anderson