How many Panorama programs have there been about the McCanns?

[slartibartfast]

The most important PANORAMA programme was probably the first.

Jane Tanner spoke publicly for the first time about the man she had witnessed carrying a child outside the McCann apartment.

I wonder if the investigation might have taken a different tack had the investigators thrown their resources into finding the man she saw rather than denigrating her and the content of her statement.

Just a bit below the belt labelling a material witness suffering the trauma of believing she had witnessed a child being abducted, 'liar and fantasist'.
But there you have it and at the least the first Panorama programme allowed Jane to set the record straight.


McCann friend tells of abduction
Panorama: The Mystery of Madeleine McCann on BBC One at 2100 GMT on Monday 19 November
A close friend of Kate and Gerry McCann has told the BBC she saw a man carrying a child through the Portuguese holiday resort where they were staying.
In an exclusive interview, Jane Tanner told Panorama she remained adamant Madeleine McCann had been abducted.

Ms Tanner was among a group of friends who dined with the McCanns on 3 May as they left Madeleine and their two other children asleep in an apartment nearby.

Her parents were named as official suspects in September.

Madeleine, from Rothley, Leicestershire, vanished from the family's holiday apartment in Praia da Luz days before her fourth birthday.

Ms Tanner described how her friend Rachael came to her holiday apartment to tell her Madeleine had gone at about 10pm.

“ I know what I saw and I think it's important that people know what I saw because I believe Madeleine was abducted ”

"And then I saw Kate and Fiona running around shouting 'Madeleine', and Kate said to me, 'Jane, Madeleine's gone, Madeleine's gone'.

"And that's the first I heard."

Jane Tanner is potentially a crucial witness in the police investigation.

Ms Tanner says at about 9.15pm she saw a man walking away from the complex with a child, but at the time thought nothing of it.

It was another 45 minutes before friends informed her Madeleine had disappeared and now she says she is convinced that child was Madeleine.

'Liar and fantasist'

Much of the police investigation focuses on the timeline of events on the night of 3 May.

And the group of friends who dined together - the so-called Tapas Nine - have been key to piecing it together.

Among them were friends and fellow holiday-makers including Rachael Oldfield and Dr Fiona Payne.

Ms Tanner insists she has done everything to help with the police investigation but decided to talk to the media after being called "a liar and a fantasist".

"I know what I saw and I think it's important that people know what I saw because I believe Madeleine was abducted," she said.

Last month the McCanns released artist's sketches of a man drawn by an FBI-trained forensic artist using details from Ms Tanner.

She had described the man she saw as aged about 35 to 40, 5ft 6in (1.7m) tall, and slim and the child he was carrying was described as wearing the same pyjamas as Madeleine.

The artist, commissioned by private detectives working for the McCanns, left the man's face blank as Ms Tanner was unsure about some details

The police say they do want to speak to all friends who were with the McCanns on the night Madeleine vanished.

They are reassessing the case but continue to believe that Madeleine was either abducted or died as a result of an accident in the holiday flat.

The full interview with Jane Tanner can be seen on Panorama: The Mystery of Madeleine McCann on BBC One at 2100 GMT on Monday 19 November.

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/programmes/panorama/7098703.stm

Published: 2007/11/16 14:57:36 GMT

© BBC 2017

Can you cite for who labelled her a liar and fantasist? First thing I find is where she is complaining about it?

[Robittybob1]

The most important PANORAMA programme was probably the first.

Jane Tanner spoke publicly for the first time about the man she had witnessed carrying a child outside the McCann apartment.

I wonder if the investigation might have taken a different tack had the investigators thrown their resources into finding the man she saw rather than denigrating her and the content of her statement.

Just a bit below the belt labelling a material witness suffering the trauma of believing she had witnessed a child being abducted, 'liar and fantasist'.
But there you have it and at the least the first Panorama programme allowed Jane to set the record straight.


McCann friend tells of abduction
Panorama: The Mystery of Madeleine McCann on BBC One at 2100 GMT on Monday 19 November
A close friend of Kate and Gerry McCann has told the BBC she saw a man carrying a child through the Portuguese holiday resort where they were staying.
In an exclusive interview, Jane Tanner told Panorama she remained adamant Madeleine McCann had been abducted.

Ms Tanner was among a group of friends who dined with the McCanns on 3 May as they left Madeleine and their two other children asleep in an apartment nearby.

Her parents were named as official suspects in September.

Madeleine, from Rothley, Leicestershire, vanished from the family's holiday apartment in Praia da Luz days before her fourth birthday.

Ms Tanner described how her friend Rachael came to her holiday apartment to tell her Madeleine had gone at about 10pm.

“ I know what I saw and I think it's important that people know what I saw because I believe Madeleine was abducted ”

"And then I saw Kate and Fiona running around shouting 'Madeleine', and Kate said to me, 'Jane, Madeleine's gone, Madeleine's gone'.

"And that's the first I heard."

Jane Tanner is potentially a crucial witness in the police investigation.

Ms Tanner says at about 9.15pm she saw a man walking away from the complex with a child, but at the time thought nothing of it.

It was another 45 minutes before friends informed her Madeleine had disappeared and now she says she is convinced that child was Madeleine.

'Liar and fantasist'

Much of the police investigation focuses on the timeline of events on the night of 3 May.

And the group of friends who dined together - the so-called Tapas Nine - have been key to piecing it together.

Among them were friends and fellow holiday-makers including Rachael Oldfield and Dr Fiona Payne.

Ms Tanner insists she has done everything to help with the police investigation but decided to talk to the media after being called "a liar and a fantasist".

"I know what I saw and I think it's important that people know what I saw because I believe Madeleine was abducted," she said.

Last month the McCanns released artist's sketches of a man drawn by an FBI-trained forensic artist using details from Ms Tanner.

She had described the man she saw as aged about 35 to 40, 5ft 6in (1.7m) tall, and slim and the child he was carrying was described as wearing the same pyjamas as Madeleine.

The artist, commissioned by private detectives working for the McCanns, left the man's face blank as Ms Tanner was unsure about some details

The police say they do want to speak to all friends who were with the McCanns on the night Madeleine vanished.

They are reassessing the case but continue to believe that Madeleine was either abducted or died as a result of an accident in the holiday flat.

The full interview with Jane Tanner can be seen on Panorama: The Mystery of Madeleine McCann on BBC One at 2100 GMT on Monday 19 November.

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/programmes/panorama/7098703.stm

Published: 2007/11/16 14:57:36 GMT

© BBC 2017

I'll watch it again, and again. 

It seems to me that Jane was considered a liar from the very moment she opened her mouth and got Silvia Batista to translate her observations to the GNR.  That officer repeats what Silvia makes in her statement, yet neither take the 50 meter or less walk to the actual position of where Jane made the observation.  She could have proven her point right there that night.

Just because she believes she witnessed the abduction doesn't make it right or true, but I believe she saw someone carrying a child from the left to the right across the top of the road.  Other than that she really can't say the reason that was happening, even though there could have been pressure put on her to develop the story and embellish the memory as the days went by.   Maybe the way memory works needs to be considered but even that is not sufficient to be "a liar and fantasist", it might be getting close, but the sighting on the night, her first words are absolute truth IMO.

[slartibartfast]

I'll watch it again, and again. 

It seems to me that Jane was considered a liar from the very moment she opened her mouth and got Silvia Batista to translate her observations to the GNR.  That officer repeats what Silvia makes in her statement, yet neither take the 50 meter or less walk to the actual position of where Jane made the observation.  She could have proven her point right there that night.

Just because she believes she witnessed the abduction doesn't make it right or true, but I believe she saw someone carrying a child from the left to the right across the top of the road.  Other than that she really can't say the reason that was happening, even though there could have been pressure put on her to develop the story and embellish the memory as the days went by.   Maybe the way memory works needs to be considered but even that is not sufficient to be "a liar and fantasist", it might be getting close, but the sighting on the night, her first words are absolute truth IMO.

Again, the first reference I can find is where she complains about it.

[Brietta]

Again, the first reference I can find is where she complains about it.

Great pains appear to have been taken to systematically discredit Jane Tanner's sighting: she features in many articles from one sceptic of renown to the next.

This phenomenon started almost immediately and continues to this day ... drawing together a flavour of the whole and succinctly summing up the assault, although slightly better presented than most is one Reis's lengthy denunciation epitomising the denigration of Jane Tanner and her evidence circa 2009:

Snip
in the present context the noun “person” indicates that the specific image of a man was not accessible in Miss Tanner’s memory. It suggests an invention of something that did not happen being contrived from the imagination. The rule is that “truth is from memory but lies are from the imagination”. Of course, linguistic analysis proves nothing, but it does raise serious questions about Miss Tanner’s credibility.


One can almost smell the desperation to discredit Jane Tanner from every sceptic blogger without exception: she even had her own associated  Irish teenager myth courtesy again of Reis ... and Levy:


One more witness contradicts Jane Tanner statement
Snip
A teenager, who was with her family at Ocean Club, saw Gerry McCann and Jeremy Wilkins talking, the night Madeleine disappeared – but she didn't saw Jane Tanner or a man carrying a child. The girl wasn't in the list of guests, as their presence at Ocean Club wasn't registered with the management. Father and daughter have been in Portugal, recently, to help Policia Judiciaria in the reconstruction of what happened the night of May 3 and to give a formal statement to Police, according to a source close to the case.

Speaking to SOS Madeleine, the Irish teenager confirmed she saw Gerry McCann and Jeremy Wilkins talking, for a few minutes, near the McCann apartment: “There was only the father of the little girl talking to another man.”

The teenager went out for a cigarette, around the same time Jane Tanner said she saw a man carrying a child. She only mentioned what she saw to her family latter, because she had also to confess the reason why she was there. Since the beginning, Police had some doubts about Jane Tanner statement, as Jeremy Wilkins, a tennis partner of Madeleine's father, told them he only saw Gerry McCann near the apartment.

Duarte Levy and Paulo Reis

There has been a lot of water under the bridge since Jane Tanner was forced to defend herself as best she could from the lies being spread over the internet about her, using the Panorama programme to do so.

She stood by what she saw and put her case on record in her own words and facing the camera.
It didn't stop them, though. 
She still features in the books and on the websites ... but Panorama enabled her to get the truth into the public domain.

On this thread ... despite disingenuous diversion ... that is how we will continue for future posts > PANORAMA.

[slartibartfast]

Great pains appear to have been taken to systematically discredit Jane Tanner's sighting: she features in many articles from one sceptic of renown to the next.

This phenomenon started almost immediately and continues to this day ... drawing together a flavour of the whole and succinctly summing up the assault, although slightly better presented than most is one Reis's lengthy denunciation epitomising the denigration of Jane Tanner and her evidence circa 2009:

Snip
in the present context the noun “person” indicates that the specific image of a man was not accessible in Miss Tanner’s memory. It suggests an invention of something that did not happen being contrived from the imagination. The rule is that “truth is from memory but lies are from the imagination”. Of course, linguistic analysis proves nothing, but it does raise serious questions about Miss Tanner’s credibility.


One can almost smell the desperation to discredit Jane Tanner from every sceptic blogger without exception: she even had her own associated  Irish teenager myth courtesy again of Reis ... and Levy:


One more witness contradicts Jane Tanner statement
Snip
A teenager, who was with her family at Ocean Club, saw Gerry McCann and Jeremy Wilkins talking, the night Madeleine disappeared – but she didn't saw Jane Tanner or a man carrying a child. The girl wasn't in the list of guests, as their presence at Ocean Club wasn't registered with the management. Father and daughter have been in Portugal, recently, to help Policia Judiciaria in the reconstruction of what happened the night of May 3 and to give a formal statement to Police, according to a source close to the case.

Speaking to SOS Madeleine, the Irish teenager confirmed she saw Gerry McCann and Jeremy Wilkins talking, for a few minutes, near the McCann apartment: “There was only the father of the little girl talking to another man.”

The teenager went out for a cigarette, around the same time Jane Tanner said she saw a man carrying a child. She only mentioned what she saw to her family latter, because she had also to confess the reason why she was there. Since the beginning, Police had some doubts about Jane Tanner statement, as Jeremy Wilkins, a tennis partner of Madeleine's father, told them he only saw Gerry McCann near the apartment.

Duarte Levy and Paulo Reis

There has been a lot of water under the bridge since Jane Tanner was forced to defend herself as best she could from the lies being spread over the internet about her, using the Panorama programme to do so.

She stood by what she saw and put her case on record in her own words and facing the camera.
It didn't stop them, though. 
She still features in the books and on the websites ... but Panorama enabled her to get the truth into the public domain.

On this thread ... despite disingenuous diversion ... that is how we will continue for future posts > PANORAMA.

She makes the statement in November 2007? You still haven’t cited anything earlier.

[Robittybob1]

Madeleine McCann The Secret Report On British Police  https://youtu.be/ZSkjOtMhjFk Sky News

[Brietta]

She makes the statement in November 2007? You still haven’t cited anything earlier.

The first Panorama programme touched very lightly on the campaign of hatred directed against the McCanns and their friends.
Started initially with leaks to the Portuguese media from 'a source close to the investigation'.  Reiteration of which in the British press resulted in the award of substantial damages to the victims; including and particularly Jane Tanner, who was the witness who at the time blew the biggest hole in the Amaral non abduction theory.

Quote
BILTON: But it's in this atmosphere that a former PJ detective goes on Portuguese television and without any corroboration accuses the McCaans of being swingers.

MAY 13th

JOSE BARRA da COSTA
Former Policia Judiciaria
There are people who guarantee that this is a couple who practice 'swinging' - i.e. sexual relationships between couples and then changing partners, and that this practice would allow in this type of...

BILTON: When you say: "there are people who say..." I'm assuming you are quoting....

DA COSTA: People who know obviously. I cannot reveal the source here because I would lose it.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/panorama/7106086.stm


Jane Tanner ~ along with the others in the McCann party had been the subject of intense vilification in the Portuguese press ~ since 4th May when 'the badly told story' headline appeared, also mentioned in the Panorama programme.

Is it your contention that Jane Tanner was fabricating the stories appearing about her in the MSM and the internet? and therefore fabricating her reasons for participating in the Panorama programme?


Quote
BILTON: Jane Tanner is the only one of the group of friends who has agreed to speak to us. She denies recent reports that both she and her partner want to change their witness statements.

I heard that you've not yet spoken to the media before and yet you've been much discussed. Why have you chosen to speak now?

JANE: Well, I've not spoken because the Portuguese police told us not to talk about the case at all, and.. you know, from day one we've done everything we can to help them with the investigation. I think maybe I'm talking now because I'm being called a liar and a fantasist and all this, and I know what I saw and I think it's important that people know what I saw because I believe Madeleine was abducted.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/panorama/7106086.stm

[slartibartfast]

The first Panorama programme touched very lightly on the campaign of hatred directed against the McCanns and their friends.
Started initially with leaks to the Portuguese media from 'a source close to the investigation'.  Reiteration of which in the British press resulted in the award of substantial damages to the victims; including and particularly Jane Tanner, who was the witness who at the time blew the biggest hole in the Amaral non abduction theory.

Quote
BILTON: But it's in this atmosphere that a former PJ detective goes on Portuguese television and without any corroboration accuses the McCaans of being swingers.

MAY 13th

JOSE BARRA da COSTA
Former Policia Judiciaria
There are people who guarantee that this is a couple who practice 'swinging' - i.e. sexual relationships between couples and then changing partners, and that this practice would allow in this type of...

BILTON: When you say: "there are people who say..." I'm assuming you are quoting....

DA COSTA: People who know obviously. I cannot reveal the source here because I would lose it.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/panorama/7106086.stm


Jane Tanner ~ along with the others in the McCann party had been the subject of intense vilification in the Portuguese press ~ since 4th May when 'the badly told story' headline appeared, also mentioned in the Panorama programme.

Is it your contention that Jane Tanner was fabricating the stories appearing about her in the MSM and the internet? and therefore fabricating her reasons for participating in the Panorama programme?


Quote
BILTON: Jane Tanner is the only one of the group of friends who has agreed to speak to us. She denies recent reports that both she and her partner want to change their witness statements.

I heard that you've not yet spoken to the media before and yet you've been much discussed. Why have you chosen to speak now?

JANE: Well, I've not spoken because the Portuguese police told us not to talk about the case at all, and.. you know, from day one we've done everything we can to help them with the investigation. I think maybe I'm talking now because I'm being called a liar and a fantasist and all this, and I know what I saw and I think it's important that people know what I saw because I believe Madeleine was abducted.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/panorama/7106086.stm

This is Jane saying it? No evidence to support it.

[Robittybob1]

This is Jane saying it? No evidence to support it.

No evidence to support Jane's assertion that she has been called a liar and a fantasist, is that your claim?
From Silvia's statement "At some point she translated the statement of one of the ladies who belonged to the group and that she describes as a brunette one. This lady said to the GNR elements, and she (the witness) translated, that she had seen a man on the road who might have carried a child.
This situation surprised her because she (the witness) was convinced that when the lady saw the man, the lady was in a place from where she had no angle of vision for the place where she saw the man. She doesn't know exactly what was the position of the lady when she saw the man, but she knows that the lady said she saw the man in the street in front of the Madeleine's bedroom window, walking in the direction of the street that then leads to the Baptista supermarket."

This doubt must have been discussed with the GNR/PJ there that night for his statement expresses the same. (But that is harder to find as I don't know which one it was.)

[faithlilly]

The first Panorama programme touched very lightly on the campaign of hatred directed against the McCanns and their friends.
Started initially with leaks to the Portuguese media from 'a source close to the investigation'.  Reiteration of which in the British press resulted in the award of substantial damages to the victims; including and particularly Jane Tanner, who was the witness who at the time blew the biggest hole in the Amaral non abduction theory.

Quote
BILTON: But it's in this atmosphere that a former PJ detective goes on Portuguese television and without any corroboration accuses the McCaans of being swingers.

MAY 13th

JOSE BARRA da COSTA
Former Policia Judiciaria
There are people who guarantee that this is a couple who practice 'swinging' - i.e. sexual relationships between couples and then changing partners, and that this practice would allow in this type of...

BILTON: When you say: "there are people who say..." I'm assuming you are quoting....

DA COSTA: People who know obviously. I cannot reveal the source here because I would lose it.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/panorama/7106086.stm


Jane Tanner ~ along with the others in the McCann party had been the subject of intense vilification in the Portuguese press ~ since 4th May when 'the badly told story' headline appeared, also mentioned in the Panorama programme.

Is it your contention that Jane Tanner was fabricating the stories appearing about her in the MSM and the internet? and therefore fabricating her reasons for participating in the Panorama programme?


Quote
BILTON: Jane Tanner is the only one of the group of friends who has agreed to speak to us. She denies recent reports that both she and her partner want to change their witness statements.

I heard that you've not yet spoken to the media before and yet you've been much discussed. Why have you chosen to speak now?

JANE: Well, I've not spoken because the Portuguese police told us not to talk about the case at all, and.. you know, from day one we've done everything we can to help them with the investigation. I think maybe I'm talking now because I'm being called a liar and a fantasist and all this, and I know what I saw and I think it's important that people know what I saw because I believe Madeleine was abducted.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/panorama/7106086.stm

Lest we forget the initial investigation, their own PI's investigation and OG have deemed the Tanner sighting as having no relevance to Madeleine's disappearance.

Tanner may have seen a man ( ! ) but SHE DID NOT SEE THE ABDUCTOR.

[Robittybob1]

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JOAO_CARLOS.htm

"At about 21.10 Jane Tanner, Russell's wife, given his absence went to check on the state of her daughter. She left by the reception and went up the road that runs along the entrance to the block. She was not seen either by Gerald or Jeremy although she did see them, she saw Gerald from the side, however Wilkins was facing the place that Tanner passed.

At the exact moment that she passed them, she perceived, at the top of the street, an individual on foot who was carrying a prostrate child, barefoot and in pyjamas, heading in the opposite direction to the entrance to the apartments. She thought it was a father carrying his child.

She only told of this situation sometime after the discovery of the disappearance and made the association, saying it was Madeleine, as the pyjamas were identical. A photo fit was made without facial features, the description and clothes of the individual were also spread by the media, to see if anyone could clarify what was happening there (folio 1592) ' no response was obtained."

This has elements of doubt about Jane's statement but there are worse ones.

[slartibartfast]

No evidence to support Jane's assertion that she has been called a liar and a fantasist, is that your claim?
From Silvia's statement "At some point she translated the statement of one of the ladies who belonged to the group and that she describes as a brunette one. This lady said to the GNR elements, and she (the witness) translated, that she had seen a man on the road who might have carried a child.
This situation surprised her because she (the witness) was convinced that when the lady saw the man, the lady was in a place from where she had no angle of vision for the place where she saw the man. She doesn't know exactly what was the position of the lady when she saw the man, but she knows that the lady said she saw the man in the street in front of the Madeleine's bedroom window, walking in the direction of the street that then leads to the Baptista supermarket."

This doubt must have been discussed with the GNR/PJ there that night for his statement expresses the same. (But that is harder to find as I don't know which one it was.)

There is a big difference between the police having doubts about a person’s statement and the police calling them “a fantasist and liar”. The only person using those words appears to have been Jane herself which was then repeated elsewhere.

[Robittybob1]

There is a big difference between the police having doubts about a person’s statement and the police calling them “a fantasist and liar”. The only person using those words appears to have been Jane herself which was then repeated elsewhere.

Russell her husband explains the origin of the terms in his rogatory interview i several places.  E.g. "Reply    “Erm, and some of it’s obviously a bit of a rant as well rather than the detail, but, erm, ‘Went round to Jane’.  Certainly she has been made, over the months, by what’s written in the papers, to, you know, to be extremely hurt and frustrated.  She’s been, you know, she’s been called, at best, my wording here was that ‘She’s been described’, ‘She’d been described, at best, a sympathetic witness and, at worst, a fantasist and a liar’, erm, and she, she certainly feels that the PJ”.

[Robittybob1]

from an internet site by an "admin" "Postby Stevo » Tue Aug 05, 2008 5:08 pm

It is impossible to have missed Jane Tanner irrespective of which side of the road Gerry and Jez were chatting. The road is so narrow. As Tanner's map shows, it makes it physically impossible for them to have missed her because she'd have to walk right between them.

Now the truth is coming out, they've nothing to hide behind.

Yes Jane Tanner - you ARE a liar and a fantasist!
Stevo
Site Admin
 
Posts: 170
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2007 8:43 pm
Location: USA

[slartibartfast]

from an internet site by an "admin" "Postby Stevo » Tue Aug 05, 2008 5:08 pm

It is impossible to have missed Jane Tanner irrespective of which side of the road Gerry and Jez were chatting. The road is so narrow. As Tanner's map shows, it makes it physically impossible for them to have missed her because she'd have to walk right between them.

Now the truth is coming out, they've nothing to hide behind.

Yes Jane Tanner - you ARE a liar and a fantasist!
Stevo
Site Admin
 
Posts: 170
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2007 8:43 pm
Location: USA

August 2008?