The thing about that BMA link is that it's just guidance, it's not authoritative, and it's not contemporary. But if we take it at face value, then I think the real crux of it is that a registered medical professional must be satisfied that he can defend his actions at a "statutory tribunal" (I assume a GMC hearing), and I think that is going to be seen as a pragmatic moral question as much as anything else. Your average humble local GP will just hand the records over for any police investigation at the murder/manslaughter level, regardless of what medical regulations strictly say about it. No tribunal is going to discipline him and no civil court would award damages in such circumstances.
The point of this being that I think Holly's original assumption is correct: if the police wanted the records, they would have asked for them and they would have got them on request, without the need for a court order, irrespective of the relevant legal position.
If you go back to the start of this thread and read from the beginning, also note its title, in particular the word "parallels"
I see many parallels in many of these so called claims of miscarriages of justice, which you, and many others, readily dismiss.
My definition of a miscarriage of justice is based on my experiences with the Hall case and having an understanding of the
nature of the beast you are dealing with - Solicitors, Barristers, defendants, Judges, the police. You. Me. Campaigns. Supporters. Friends & Family etc...
You say miscarriages of justice are the result of poor thinking skills. Whilst I don't disagree I think it's fundamental to look further than that and take into consideration motives of all those involved, starting with the person claiming to be a
miscarriage of justice and working from there.
A crime has been committed -
People have been murdered Someone is arrested and charged and found guilty in a court of law
Justice is done
But the convicted person claims they are a miscarriage of justice
"
Who Does That? Part 2
By Sandra L. Brown, MA
Part 1 can be found here
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=891.msg454300#msg454300"Last week we began discussing the WHO of certain behaviors and crimes often perpetrated by Cluster Bs, and how the various systems who come in contact with Cluster Bs have differing names, thus views, of their destructive patterns. How convenient for pathologicals that each system is only focused on its identified behavior, which helps pathologicals continue to fly under the radar. Instead of seeing the big picture of pathological disorders in action, the systems are focused on the sub-directory of behaviors associated with only their system and one small aspect of each pathological’s destructive nature.
When teaching about Public Pathology, I always provide education about the pathological disorders of Cluster B (Borderlines, Narcissists, Anti-Socials, Sociopaths, and Psychopaths). No matter who hires me to speak, they all get the training on Cluster B. I teach this to nurses, the military, therapists (who seem to have forgotten), the criminal justice system, law enforcement, judges, custody evaluators, prosecutors/lawyers, and mediators. I teach it to clergy, addiction professionals, and social workers, victim advocates, and DV programs. I teach it to every frontline ‘system’ that is likely to encounter various forms of behaviors that fall under the category of Cluster B, but are referred to within each system’s own labeling vernacular.
All these systems deal with the same disorder, with different faces, different statuses in life, different careers and titles, with money or without, different crimes and different charges against them, different social services requests, different spiritual confessions, different storylines, different excuses, different projections of their behavior onto societal causations. But in the end, it’s the same disorder over and over again.
When I teach about Cluster B, I see the moment of “aha!” that comes across their faces when they recognize their own clients within this cluster of disorders. Learning the emotional, physical, psychological, behavioral, financial, sexual, and spiritual behaviors of these disorders quickly helps them to affirm who does that. Looking across the room and seeing law enforcement, judges, therapists, and mediators all nodding in agreement rushes them into the center of reality that we are all dealing with the same disorder in our offices, courtrooms, therapy offices, and pews. That whether they are a defamer, cyberstalker, repeat domestic violence offender, financial con artist, or killer, we are still talking about the Cluster B of disorders.
When asking my audience of sexual offender therapists if any of the pedophiles aren’t within Cluster B, no one disagrees.
When asking batterer intervention programs if the chronic repeaters aren’t Cluster B, no one balks.
When asking forensic computer professionals if trolls, cyberstalkers, defamers and bullies are Cluster B, they readily affirm it.
Sexual assault counselors don’t argue that rapists are largely Cluster B.
Judges don’t rush to defend that high-conflict cases (those people who file case after case, as many as 60 times to court) aren’t Cluster B.
Mediators don’t disagree that those most likely to fail mediation are Cluster B.
Custody evaluators affirm that those most likely to tamper with evidence, perpetrate parental alienation, and require supervised visitation, are Cluster Bs.
Programs that deal with stalking can easily see that stalking is primarily a Cluster B occurrence.
Repeat criminals clogging up jail, probation, parole, and prison programs are often diagnosed within jail as having a Cluster B disorder.
Terrorists, school shooters, and bombers are easily identified as Cluster B.
Those who stay for years and years in counseling, using up mental health resources without ever being able to sustain positive change, are Cluster Bs (excluding here those with the chronic mental illness of schizophrenia or developmental disabilities).
Those prematurely discharged from military service are often Cluster B.
The overuse and misuse of most major societal services and systems are related to Cluster B.
Some of the most brilliantly contrived insider trading crimes of the century have been planned and executed by Cluster Bs.
Are there many murderers who aren’t Cluster B?
Who does that? If we take all the behaviors listed above (and often crimes from those behaviors), put them in an analyzer funnel and watch the behaviors clink and clunk down the spiral DSM Identifier, it would spit them out in an Axis II file with Cluster B printed on the front.
The Cluster B’s behaviors are generated out of a complex interweaving of emotional, developmental, neurological, biochemical, and even genetic, abnormalities. Obviously, this is not a simple disorder, or there would be less ‘inevitable harm’ associated with everyone and everything they touch, and they would be cured or even managed consistently and well.
This complicated group of disorders single-handedly sets society on edge. It keeps us in court, in therapy, in prayer, in the lawyer’s office, in depression, in anxiety, on edge, on the offense, ready to off ourselves to simply be away from such menacing (yet often normal appearing) deviancy.
Who wreaks more emotional havoc than Cluster Bs? Sixty million people in the U.S. alone are negatively impacted by someone else’s pathology. It drives people to therapy, to commit their own petty acts of revenge to avenge their own powerlessness. It drives people to drink, to run away, to take their children and run and, sadly, leads to uncountable numbers of suicides every year.
They single-handedly cause financial disruptions to the working class, who are demoted, or go on disability because of the ‘scrambled eggs’ for brains they now have due to too much Cluster B exposure.
It drives the legal market by keeping attorneys in business through never-ending court cases, child custody, and restraining orders.
It employs judges and prison systems. And keeps forensic computer analysts and forensic accountants frantically busy.
It funds domestic violence shelters, rape centers, and children’s therapy programs.
Pathology is big business. It is what our large service systems in almost every field are driven by… the need to protect, defend, prosecute, or treat the effects of Cluster Bs.
It employs threat assessment professionals to ward off stalkers and reputation defenders’ online programs to repair cyber attacks on people that Cluster Bs rarely even know.
It employs social workers and halfway houses trying to get Cluster Bs “the help they need to turn their lives around.”
It drives the media of TV, radio, and talk shows. Who do we think are often the people on daytime TV and reality shows? Cluster Bs. Who do the media often want to talk about in the celebrity world? The Cluster Bs. What kinds of crimes do the media flock to? The crimes often perpetrated by Cluster Bs.
It drives the medical field due to stress-related disorders and diseases normal people develop as a reaction to the abnormal pathology of Cluster B.
Surely pharmacology is partially driven by medications for depression and anxiety perpetrated by the no-conscience disorders of Cluster B.
It generates new products every year to track, expose and identify Cluster Bs who are hacking computers, sending viruses, or putting chips on phones and cars to invade others lives.
While, clearly, pathology generates jobs for many, it is still the single most destructive group of disorders that exists. And until all the major systems—judicial, legal, and mental health—get on the same page about who does that, we will be stuck in this maze of pathologicals flying under the radar, undiagnosed, unrealized, and wreaking havoc in millions of people’s lives.
You ask "is the conviction legally safe?
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=9300.0"The law is an ass" you know that.
That question would depend on the psychology of the law makers and those who brake the law.
There's no doubt UK criminal law is fundamentally flawed but when, how, why and where did these flaws occur in the first place?
