Author Topic: What evidence is there that the initial investigation was not fit for purpose  (Read 20793 times)

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Offline Mr Gray

Possibly but that is not the issue.

This is the issue:
"What evidence is there that the initial investigation was not fit for purpose"

The correct answer remains "none"

If you admit you possibly dont understand what evidence is then how can you say there is none...and...you need to add...imo....to your post

Offline Carana

Possibly but that is not the issue.

This is the issue:
"What evidence is there that the initial investigation was not fit for purpose"

The correct answer remains "none"

What evidence would you expect, Alice?

I'd find the question easier the other way around.

- Was there a missing child protocol in place?
- Who was adequately trained on the team for a potential child abduction / murder?
- Did the PJ have a sex offender list?
- Did the PJ have a DNA database?
- Did the PJ forensic team do a thorough investigation?
- Should any of the officers have been reassigned due to pending investigations into the only other missing child case they'd been involved in?
- Did they initially have adequate facilities / resources? If so, what were they?
- In view of the nature of the case, was the language barrier an obstacle?
- What experience had they had in requesting overseas assistance beyond possibly a drug trafficking case?
- ...

Offline Alice Purjorick

If you admit you possibly dont understand what evidence is then how can you say there is none...and...you need to add...imo....to your post

OK
IMO

You may need to come at this from a different angle.
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

Offline Alice Purjorick

What evidence would you expect, Alice?

I'd find the question easier the other way around.

- Was there a missing child protocol in place?
- Who was adequately trained on the team for a potential child abduction / murder?
- Did the PJ have a sex offender list?
- Did the PJ have a DNA database?
- Did the PJ forensic team do a thorough investigation?
- Should any of the officers have been reassigned due to pending investigations into the only other missing child case they'd been involved in?
- Did they initially have adequate facilities / resources? If so, what were they?
- In view of the nature of the case, was the language barrier an obstacle?
- What experience had they had in requesting overseas assistance beyond possibly a drug trafficking case?
- ...

The same evidence I would expect from anyone who bandied the term "fit for purpose", about.
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

Offline Carana

The same evidence I would expect from anyone who bandied the term "fit for purpose", about.

What are the criteria?

Offline G-Unit

What evidence would you expect, Alice?

I'd find the question easier the other way around.

- Was there a missing child protocol in place?
- Who was adequately trained on the team for a potential child abduction / murder?
- Did the PJ have a sex offender list?
- Did the PJ have a DNA database?
- Did the PJ forensic team do a thorough investigation?
- Should any of the officers have been reassigned due to pending investigations into the only other missing child case they'd been involved in?
- Did they initially have adequate facilities / resources? If so, what were they?
- In view of the nature of the case, was the language barrier an obstacle?
- What experience had they had in requesting overseas assistance beyond possibly a drug trafficking case?
- ...

It all depends on the benchmark you are using. There's no point in comparing the resources and expertise of a country with ten million inhabitants and a GDP of 204 billion USD to those of a country with 65 million inhabitants and a GDP of 2,619 trillion USD. 

A realistic assessment of the Portuguese investigation would be to compare it with a country such as Greece, which has a similar population and GDP.



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Offline Mr Gray

It all depends on the benchmark you are using. There's no point in comparing the resources and expertise of a country with ten million inhabitants and a GDP of 204 billion USD to those of a country with 65 million inhabitants and a GDP of 2,619 trillion USD. 

A realistic assessment of the Portuguese investigation would be to compare it with a country such as Greece, which has a similar population and GDP.

So what you are saying is you think it might be acceptable by their standard but not by ours




Offline Robittybob1

I'm not criticising the poor forensic lady, maybe there was only one glove left in stock.


Does she get criticised for not wearing gloves or the lack of hair net?
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Offline G-Unit

So what you are saying is you think it might be acceptable by their standard but not by ours

D you expect everything in another country to meet or exceed UK standards? That's not realistic, is it?

In the 1960's my husband noticed the better facilities, food and equipment provided to US troops compared to those provided to British troops. That same difference still existed in Afghanistan a few years ago.

That difference doesn't necessarily mean that the US soldier is superior to the British soldier, however.
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Offline Carana

According to the Op Task debrief, the PJ were offered all kinds of resources, including a mirror HOLMES site, but they apparently didn't make much use of many of the resources. Perhaps because they were resentful at a perceived intrusion into their "space", or because they simply didn't know how to make use of everything.

There's no way of knowing if the PJ even had a clear-cut strategy on how to lead an investigation of this kind.



Offline Eleanor

Re: What evidence is there that the initial investigation was not fit for purpose
« Reply #100 on: December 27, 2017, 07:47:16 PM »
According to the Op Task debrief, the PJ were offered all kinds of resources, including a mirror HOLMES site, but they apparently didn't make much use of many of the resources. Perhaps because they were resentful at a perceived intrusion into their "space", or because they simply didn't know how to make use of everything.

There's no way of knowing if the PJ even had a clear-cut strategy on how to lead an investigation of this kind.

I suspect that they never had to before.  They decided who was guilty, and that was the end of that.

Offline Angelo222

Re: What evidence is there that the initial investigation was not fit for purpose
« Reply #101 on: December 27, 2017, 07:57:15 PM »
I suspect that they never had to before.  They decided who was guilty, and that was the end of that.

An extremely narrow and naive view Eleanor if I may say so.  %56&
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Offline Angelo222

Re: What evidence is there that the initial investigation was not fit for purpose
« Reply #102 on: December 27, 2017, 07:58:40 PM »
I'm not criticising the poor forensic lady, maybe there was only one glove left in stock.



She had no need to use a glove.  In any event try doing that with latex gloves on.
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Offline Eleanor

Re: What evidence is there that the initial investigation was not fit for purpose
« Reply #103 on: December 27, 2017, 08:02:50 PM »
An extremely narrow and naive view Eleanor if I may say so.  %56&

You are more than welcome, Angelo.  I respect your opinions, as no doubt you respect mine.

Offline Angelo222

Re: What evidence is there that the initial investigation was not fit for purpose
« Reply #104 on: December 27, 2017, 08:06:45 PM »
You are more than welcome, Angelo.  I respect your opinions, as no doubt you respect mine.

They put Joana Cipriano's murderer and his accomplice behind bars and they claimed it too was an abduction.
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!