Have we learnt anything from the Maddie case?

[Robittybob1]

We would need to ask the PJ...just because you cannot think of one does not mean there isn't one.
I think is highly unlikely they would use the words highly unlikely unless they had a good reason

The PJ are not going to answer that question.  And you don't seem to want to consider trying to explore a possibility yourself.  So we might as well move on.

[G-Unit]

What a lot of people seem to have learned is to believe and repeat the stories in the British newspapers. Clarence Mitchell freely admits that he worked hard, meeting newspaper editors privately.

We had to establish our own narrative and key messages,"

"For the first anniversay we had to offer the press something decent to keep the interest going so we did Panorama and Hello!. For the second anniversary Oprah had been chasing us for some time so we worked with her.
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Nigel/id291.htm

Part of his role was reputation management, so that should always be remembered when his name appears.

https://mumbrella.com.au/clarence-mitchell-madeleine-mccann-disappearance-pr-342797

[Mr Gray]

The PJ are not going to answer that question.  And you don't seem to want to consider trying to explore a possibility yourself.  So we might as well move on.

Absolutely....perhaps one day we will find out the answer

[Robittybob1]

Absolutely....perhaps one day we will find out the answer

8:20 PM Gerry closes the door but doesn't lock it.
Gerry uses the key to open it a 9:05 PM.
Madeleine exits by front door after 9:35 -9:40 but leaves it open.
someone sees it open and closes it from the inside and leaves by the patio door.
Kate finds the door closed so can't imagine Madeleine leaving by the front door.
PJ and GNR see no sign of break in through the front door. (Admit key could be used).
Dogs track Madeleine from the front door.

[Mr Gray]

8:20 PM Gerry closes the door but doesn't lock it.
Gerry uses the key to open it a 9:05 PM.
Madeleine exits by front door after 9:35 -9:40 but leaves it open.
someone sees it open and closes it from the inside and leaves by the patio door.
Kate finds the door closed so can't imagine Madeleine leaving by the front door.
PJ and GNR see no sign of break in through the front door. (Admit key could be used).
Dogs track Madeleine from the front door.

there is something that has conviced the PJ that maddie did not wake and wander.....we dont know what it is...but they seem convinced....its pointless guessing imo...the dogs are not real evidence of woke and wandered

[Robittybob1]

there is something that has conviced the PJ that maddie did not wake and wander.....we dont know what it is...but they seem convinced....its pointless guessing imo...the dogs are not real evidence of woke and wandered

I have just looked at a previous 5A occupant PA gordon
The doors, windows and shutters were in perfect working order.
There was no sign of the doors, windows and blinds ever having been broken into, but also there was no need to examine [them]. The front door had a double lock that was difficult to lock, but we managed to do it. The patio door did not lock from the outside, only from the inside of the apartment and for that reason when the family left [went out] together we always used the front door."
That is tantamount to admitting it was faulty. for it to be difficult suggests faulty IMO.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PAUL_GORDON.htm

[Angelo222]

I have just looked at a previous 5A occupant PA gordon
The doors, windows and shutters were in perfect working order.
There was no sign of the doors, windows and blinds ever having been broken into, but also there was no need to examine [them]. The front door had a double lock that was difficult to lock, but we managed to do it. The patio door did not lock from the outside, only from the inside of the apartment and for that reason when the family left [went out] together we always used the front door."
That is tantamount to admitting it was faulty. for it to be difficult suggests faulty IMO.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PAUL_GORDON.htm

Did the McCanns ever say it was difficult to doublelock?   Come to think of it, I don't recall them ever saying they locked the front door from the inside.

[Angelo222]

there is something that has conviced the PJ that maddie did not wake and wander.....we dont know what it is...but they seem convinced....its pointless guessing imo...the dogs are not real evidence of woke and wandered

You don't like the dogs obviously but on this occasion we know the dogs followed Maddie's scent.  The only unknown is whether it was her scent from that night or scent previously laid down each morning. As she wore shoes in the morning and had no shoes on the night she disappeared, I tend to go with the latter.  Or to put it another way, just a little more evidence to support woke and wandered out the front door.

[Mr Gray]

You don't like the dogs obviously but on this occasion we know the dogs followed Maddie's scent.  The only unknown is whether it was her scent from that night or scent previously laid down each morning. As she wore shoes in the morning and had no shoes on the night she disappeared, I tend to go with the latter.  Or to put it another way, just a little more evidence to support woke and wandered out the front door.

Alice posted a link to a court case where tracker dog evidence was deemed inadmissible.....it seems it is not as reliable as some think...nothing against dogs I just like the truth
The PJ said woke and wandered was highly unlikely...it would be interesting to know on what that was based

[Carana]

What a lot of people seem to have learned is to believe and repeat the stories in the British newspapers. Clarence Mitchell freely admits that he worked hard, meeting newspaper editors privately.

We had to establish our own narrative and key messages,"

"For the first anniversay we had to offer the press something decent to keep the interest going so we did Panorama and Hello!. For the second anniversary Oprah had been chasing us for some time so we worked with her.
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Nigel/id291.htm

Part of his role was reputation management, so that should always be remembered when his name appears.

https://mumbrella.com.au/clarence-mitchell-madeleine-mccann-disappearance-pr-342797

I don't see a problem with that if whatever info he gave was / is factual.

[sadie]

I have just looked at a previous 5A occupant PA gordon
The doors, windows and shutters were in perfect working order.
There was no sign of the doors, windows and blinds ever having been broken into, but also there was no need to examine [them]. The front door had a double lock that was difficult to lock, but we managed to do it. The patio door did not lock from the outside, only from the inside of the apartment and for that reason when the family left [went out] together we always used the front door."
That is tantamount to admitting it was faulty. for it to be difficult suggests faulty IMO.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PAUL_GORDON.htm

I dont know whether it is in the files or not, but soon after Madeleine vanished, a couple came forward who had stayed in 5A before The Mccanns.  I think they were on honeymoon, but not sure about that now.

They commented that with the door latched (single locked but requiring a key for entrance), the cleaners would just walk in on them.

So they tried double locking the door and the cleaners still just walked in on them.  They were not very happy about it.

I cant remember all the details now, but I think that there was something more than plain bad manners on the cleaners behalf ... who should, of course, knocked the door first and waited for an answer.   I am not certain about that tho and will happily be corrected if I am wrong on that last bit.

[Angelo222]

Alice posted a link to a court case where tracker dog evidence was deemed inadmissible.....it seems it is not as reliable as some think...nothing against dogs I just like the truth
The PJ said woke and wandered was highly unlikely...it would be interesting to know on what that was based

That is irrelevant, the tracker dogs both followed the same trail, Maddie's trail and that is irrefutable.

[Alice Purjorick]

@ Alice The diary is only one example. There were loads of others.

Where did the "tufts" of hair half-baked leak come from?

Daily Mail

Large amount of Madeleine's hair 'found in tyre well in boot of parents' hire car'

Last updated at 18:03pm on 11th September 2007

• Portuguese prosecutors pass case file onto senior judge
• Madeleine's body 'carried in car storage space'
• Bodily fluids found in tyre well were that of 'a decomposing corpse'
• Leicestershire's top detective visits McCanns' home
• Gerry's blog: last few days have been emotionally draining

Madeleine: DNA in the McCanns' hire care boot is said to be a full match

Substantial quantities of Madeleine McCann's hair were found in the tyre well of the boot of her parents' hire car, it was revealed today.

Investigators are convinced so much hair was found that her body must have been stored in the vehicle, which was hired more than three weeks after she disappeared.
http://themaddiecasefiles.com/large-amount-of-madeleine-s-hair-found-in-tyre-w-1-t17442.html#p224818

The FSS report doesn't have a typed name on the PT translation, just a signature. Angela something?
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P10/10VOLUME_Xa_Page_2652a.jpg


Unless the PT tabloids were deliberately making half of it up (at least this one) one possibility is that a PJ officer or employee simply told a relative or spouse, who then repeated it and tabloid ears picked it up and possibly embellished it. At least it could explain why it was so disconnected from the actual findings.

I would not rule out either possibility until I had gone through each item carefully to knock it on the head one way or another. Just as I would not assume it was all malice aforethought part of some larger cosmic plot.
The making it up as you go along behaviour is not restricted to tabloids either. UK broadsheets have been known to print complete blx masquerading as "investigative journalism".

[Mr Gray]

That is irrelevant, the tracker dogs both followed the same trail, Maddie's trail and that is irrefutable.

If you read the files it says the second dog may simply have been conditioned by the first...it's in the pj files....if it is Maddie's scent it could have been from the days before...that's in the pj files as well...so the tracker dog evidence is weak....and the pj said it's highly unlikely Maddie w and w...I'm just sticking to facts...no opinion

[Alice Purjorick]

I have just looked at a previous 5A occupant PA gordon
The doors, windows and shutters were in perfect working order.
There was no sign of the doors, windows and blinds ever having been broken into, but also there was no need to examine [them]. The front door had a double lock that was difficult to lock, but we managed to do it. The patio door did not lock from the outside, only from the inside of the apartment and for that reason when the family left [went out] together we always used the front door."
That is tantamount to admitting it was faulty. for it to be difficult suggests faulty IMO.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PAUL_GORDON.htm

How so?